Horses who are bad at emotional regulation

[tatty_v]

Shadow can be like this and he’s Connie x ID. He just isn’t a particularly brave horse and we will still have hacks and schooling sessions where something upsets him and he just can’t wind down. The silver lining is it’s not every time now, just some times. I find it easier to help him schooling than I do hacking and I think I’m seeing an improvement overall the more schooling and training we do, but who knows…

 

[JFTDWS]

Fergus has always been like Fin - if he gets stressed out hacking, everything snowballs. The quarter horse, on the other hand, has always left her stress in the moment. Daemon is somewhere in between the two. I think it’s largely personality.

With Fergus, having shoulder in / dressage / control training gives you rideablity and options, but you can’t use them to interrupt him in a stressful moment. Everything just spirals if you try. He responds best to a looser rein and a relaxed approach to stressful situations. The QH can often be distracted with a bit of shoulder in or other work.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I agree too, but it's not often practical or safe, like if you're on a road.

When OH turned Fin out yesterday, he said that after he removed the headcollar, the pony took off across the field like he was in the Grand National. After a normal, pleasant ride, he usually hangs around the gate with you for a few seconds, then ambles off towards the grass. He clearly needed to run to blast off the adrenaline, but that's not an option in the middle of a busy road.

I definitely don't seek out things I know will spook him. Yesterday's bogeyman was at a house we've hacked past thousands of times -- it's right before the yard -- and it was just unfortunate that the house owner was doing something weird in the garden, which we didn't realise until we came around a fairly blind corner.



That's not a bad strategy to try when it's safe to do it.

Thinking further about this- it's a difficult thing to get used to, as you have to be concentrating on then entirely on what they might spook at without generating an emotional response yourself- that kind of marble-like calm is difficult to maintain when they're bouncing around like a kite! I've found that if I can't be totally dispassionate, laughter is the best option, as it releases tension and so they don't get any stress or tension from you to feed their own emotions.

 

[PurBee]

My mare is extremely over reactive especially when hacking on her own which I have to do as noone to ride with. I realised she is very noise sensitive so decided to try her with ear plugs, wow what a difference, it's like riding a different horse. She is so much calmer even with non noisy things eg people walking towards her etc would freak her previously but with the ear plugs not a problem. So maybe try them x

That’s actually a really good idea, i’d have never thought of that, but i can understand how that could help an over-reactive horse.
Thinking on it, i wear earplugs when im strimming and afterwards often forget to take them out, as i quite like the absolute peace from sound, and feel a bit calmer. We’re really rural, its mostly quiet but theres distant chainsaws/tractors and this year a couple of screaming kids nearby.
To have all that sound blanked-out and just be able to see, its like watching a silent movie. There may be havoc seen, but to not hear the havoc does change the emotional response, tones it down.

Yesterday my pair of arabXwelsh were being walked-up loose from the field. By the muddy gateway, i had just got the electric fence gate strings back when a pheasant shot out from the bushes right close to us. We dont have a lot of pheasants so this isnt something weve experienced so close together before at all. They stunned jumped on the spot and froze like statues, staring hard at the pheasant flying off. I said calmly, ‘its ok, just a bird, c’mon’, and the both deflated 2 hands and walked on up as if nothing had happened.
On the way up i was thinking about spook response, how they can spook and just get on with it, but then other ‘new’ things really bother them. How unpredictable this is.
We’re told desensitise with exposure, which can help i agree, but there seems instances where my pair have shown that ‘rule’ to be defunct. The pheasant is the perfect example. They had the freedom to bolt up the track to safety of their yard. But they stood and observed the threat with minimal freakout.

I bought a new wheelbarrow recently, and its taken some time for me to be able to park it in the usual wheelbarrow space by their stable, so the mare would not boycott the area because of the terrible monster aka new wheelbarrow. Just a different colour from the old one!! Theyve known other wheelbarrows as we have a few, so are ‘desensitised’ - but this one, she really didnt like for days on end.
(Mare got minimal handling as a youngster, gelding had lots of handling when young, mare is leader so influences brave gelding)

Mostly with spooks they calm down relatively quickly, but the odd thing can keep them wound up, i never can guess what that thing will be. I wave plastic bags around and have tarps flapping daily on this windy hill, but i bet a crisp packet blowing along could freak them out!
The only thing i have noticed that makes a difference with most spooks is if i am with them, and remain very calm, and nonchalantly speak as if im not bothered, i dont remain looking at the threat, i say ‘cmon’ calmly as if nothing has happened. (Most spooks happen with me on the ground which helps them read me better potentially than if i am on their back, although they feel our reaction on their back)

When i read that article about the study where they discovered horses could ‘hear’ our own heartbeat, it made me realise that i cannot ‘hide’ my panic from them, and just ‘pretend’ to be calm. I really have to feel and be calm. My heartbeat i could even feel in my body pounding when they freaked-out, so undoubtably they sensed that and likely reacted to that too. (My mind would think of all the potential terrible things that could go wrong with the moment of freak-out, i had to mind-train through meditation to not think those trails of fearful thoughts)

I started meditation to get used to self-navigating to centred calmness, then practiced finding ‘that space’ during stress events of everyday life. It took some practice, and only during life-threatening events i might lose it completely, but its helped me hugely to remain very ‘serene’ while they dance on hot coals around me, as i KNOW they take cues from me and do listen to me. So i utilise this communication to the max by authentically holding a very calm unflustered state.
Its been THE key to handling them and them ‘mirror’ calmness.

The other night i went out to feed them to see the electric fence down, poles disturbed, and the gelding on a small patch of land surrounded by potential harmful dangers (well they are horses afterall!) …he sees me see him loose and being naughty, snatches a few more lush green mouthfuls knowing he’s been discovered!…and i dont approach him, walk to the gate that leads into the horse area and before even asking him to come to me, he was already walking to me and went calmly through the gate to their area.
Before ‘self-calmness training’, i would freak, he would be more freaky and there would be no guarantee how it would end!
His younger spooky behaviour helped to teach me to find my centred calmness. A blessing in disguise, as a ‘dope on a rope’ horse would never have gifted me that essential life skill. To remain centred calm in the face of potential dangers, to not allow the mind to react and think fearful thoughts, i never ever would have imagined how useful that is for everything in life we deal with.
They read US so acutely, so closely. We react to THEIR freak-outs, they subsequently react to OUR freak-outs too, and a circular freaky mess soon occurs.

When im not with them, a deer barking at them in the lower fields has them galloping up the track to their ‘safe’ yard/stable area where we mainly work nearby. When we’re down in the fields with them, the deer bark, the horses look at the deer, then us, notice we dont react, so then continue eating.

Because Fin was ferel, for many years, he potentially hasnt yet learnt he can listen to you. You got Hermosa young and at a ripe age to use you as an extended herd member to listen to.
I have done a lot of groundwork with them, and eventually the mare listened to me. She was like Fin when i first got her age 10. My god, it was terrible when i think back! Weve come a long way, but it wasnt any specific techniques but hours of scratches, grooming, basic groundwork, even just standing with her just chilling together, all actions that engendered more trust in me. Roughly 2 hrs a day for 2 yrs got her trusting me enough to want to listen to me freely, at liberty.

They always have freak-out potential to anything we can never predict, but having them trusting and listening to US, is a solid key to managing the spooks.

I dont have a cuddly type of bonding with my pair, but we have a communication bond now. It happened organically as i learnt from them, as i went along. Many hours on the ground with them did it.

 

[SEL]

I was hacking Babycob today and thinking about this thread. He was bred, backed and produced for sale at the same yard - loved and cherished. He has his spooky baby moments on the roads but in general will look, sometimes want to turn for home if it's very scary but he doesn't get wound up and worst case is he's asked to halt and I pop off.

He's not actually very brave but his head stays in the game unlike the Appy who escalates so quickly it's hard to dismount safely.

So I was contemplating whether when the initial nurture stages have gone wrong (or haven't happened) it is ever possible to train the behaviour away.

I don't know. But Babycob was a superstar hacking!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit:

Edit: Oh bloody h*ll, the post went poof?!

 

[expanding_horizon]

The one time I had a very nasty ejection from the Appy was when I stopped a spook, run moment - she launched into two unseating bucks. A fellow livery was on Jason Webb's programme at the time and asked what to do in that situation and he said putting the brakes on a flight animal caused the "get off me now" behaviour. I think I agree but I'm not sure that I could safely let the "run" play out. Rock & hard place

Her freeze response needed to be waited out. Trying to move her feet while her brain was processing just resulted in her rearing or her running backwards at whatever was behind.

She suffered massively from anxiety when she came to me and had no love for humans so I don't think she ever had that trust those that are started nicely get. Orphan foal then stuck on her own in a field as a 4yo plus no life experience was always going to be tougher in hindsight. Taught me a lot though!

AFAIK Jason Webb would ask you to flex neck and circle but not so sharply pull horse over. Wouldn’t expect you to stop dead.

 

[maya2008]

So I was contemplating whether when the initial nurture stages have gone wrong (or haven't happened) it is ever possible to train the behaviour away.

I don't know. But Babycob was a superstar hacking!

This is exactly why I am wobbling about selling our 2yo. She won’t make the height we need, but will be big enough we could start her well and give her all her initial experiences. Then I could send her out into the world with a more secure future.

 

[maya2008]

For us, my spookiest one is the one who was feral until he was 5.

 

[SEL]

AFAIK Jason Webb would ask you to flex neck and circle but not so sharply pull horse over. Wouldn’t expect you to stop dead.

But you need the right environment to circle yes?

 

[maya2008]

But you need the right environment to circle yes?

I thought that! Not a main road for sure!

 

[Nasicus]

I found Bucket Theory really helpful for understanding my animals and their reactions to things. Some have small buckets, some have large. Some fill up quickly some slowly, some empty quickly, some slowly.
I suppose it's basically the Trigger Stacking theory, but the Bucket metaphor/visualization really helps for me personally.

 

[tda]

I found Bucket Theory really helpful for understanding my animals and their reactions to things. Some have small buckets, some have large. Some fill up quickly some slowly, some empty quickly, some slowly.
I suppose it's basically the Trigger Stacking theory, but the Bucket metaphor/visualization really helps for me personally.

I like this theory

 

[Caol Ila]

I often think in terms of the the bucket theory. But it's tough when the bucket isn't under your control.

On the day that started this thread, after we had our meltdown about the woman flapping sheets of plastic, I turned and went home the other way, which goes past fields of sheep. The farmer was herding his sheep from one of his fields to another with his quad bike and his collie. Fin doesn't like it when the farmer chases sheep around. Maybe it gives him PTSD from his round up. Anyway, if he's calm, we can get past it with his eyes on stalks, but okay. Of course the other day, he was already upset, so he got very bouncy and wound up about the sheep herding. Ergh.

It was also windy, which didn't help. But knowing that, we'd deliberately taken him on the least adventurous, shortest hack you can do from the yard. One he's done more than any other. He was in quite a good mood until we stumbled into flappy plastic lady. Then it all went to pot. You just need some unexpected stuff en route to make a short, straightforward hack into something spicy.

I guess when you have a horse with a small bucket and sh*t happens outwith your control, you just have to man up and ride through it.

 

[SEL]

I think there are some horses whose bucket goes from empty to over flowing in a single step.

And where you are when that happens can also make a difference as to how you deal. Are you also dealing with traffic? Are there other people around? Is he/she likely to run for home and what kind of area are you in (circling etc)? How far from home are you?

The microcob hates cows but otherwise she's as sensible as they come. A herd of young bullocks kindly came galloping up to say hello when we were riding past on the road. Her bucket went to full quickly and she broke into canter. Unlike my Appy her head stays in the game and I was able to get her into a layby, hop off and walk her by. She calmed down, bucket empty and on with the ride. The Appy would have spent the rest of the ride wired - or not be bothered because she likes cows

 

[Caol Ila]

Are you also dealing with traffic? Are there other people around? Is he/she likely to run for home and what kind of area are you in (circling etc)? How far from home are you?

Aye, unfortunately going anywhere requires using a fairly busy road. And too far from home, lol.