Horsey related small claims court advice

HiPo'sHuman

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After having read through SLH's thread and noticed a number of people suggesting the small claims court, I'm wondering if it's something I could pursue myself? So sorry to hear of the issues going on at the moment, people are the worst :(

October '18, I found what looked to be a lovely little set up for the horses - three stables, c. 3 acres split up into one main field and a few smaller sections (I do have screenshots of the advert but not to hand right now). All sounded great until I moved there :( I'd paid a £200 deposit and £400 rent for a month in advance. Set up was totally unstuitable for my lot (the bloke had promised me it would be finished prior to moving on) - no running water, no hardstanding had been put down meaning it was full of mud and my lorry got stuck, a stallion was living in the field next to my three which included a mini mare this had not been disclosed prior to moving and they were only separated by electric fencing, the gate wasn't sufficient to keep the ponies in their field (one strand of electric fencing which was too high to prevent the smaller two ducking under)...as well as a handful of other issues. Raised concerns with owner who didn't give a shit, I said I wasn't happy and would not be able to stay primarily due to the safety aspect of having my mare there but it wasn't suitable for my needs/wasn't finished etc. Anyway, I moved asap, asked for money back and nothing, no reply.

I kind of cut my losses but it's always playing on my mind, it's the principle of it rather than the lost money! It was a nightmare for me and the ponies. Things have been rough since then so I've never chased it up. Do you reckon I've got a case? Is there a time limit on putting an application in? The deposit was paid on 07/10/18 and rent paid 12/10/18. Would have to look through old correspondence but I think we stayed for two nights? Three max.
 

bonny

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I doubt you would have a claim, you could argue that you saw the yard and agreed to take it as it was . Did the owner write down what improvements he would make ?
 

HiPo'sHuman

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I doubt you would have a claim, you could argue that you saw the yard and agreed to take it as it was . Did the owner write down what improvements he would make ?

I need to look through my photos and find the advert screenshots but I'm 99% sure that running water was stated in it, I don't have evidence of the other promises tho' :(
 

Moon River

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Small claims online is pretty easy to do as a process, but, the issues you've highlighted here would all have been visible to you on inspection prior to moving on (ignoring whether or not the next door pony was a stallion, you would have been able to see that there was only crappy electric fencing separating the fields which would have been an issue anyway). You can try but I could put up a good defence there. What was the deposit for? Was there any damage caused that it could have applied to (owner should have informed you anyway). I'd go for getting your deposit back but possibly only getting the month's rent pro rata taking off the days you stayed on goodwill as it would be taken as the notice period.
 

HiPo'sHuman

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Ah I probably won't bother then. I'm way too naive and trusting unfortunately...need to toughen up and stop expecting that other people are genuine!
 

ycbm

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You are well in time and have a case for at least your deposit back if the facilities don't match the advert. It will cost you about £25 to start it, and you get that back if you win of the guy pays up, but you can send bailiffs in at his cost if he doesn't. You can do it all online. Michen used it for a horse and I sued a hotel chain last year. It was easy. There is a chance he will pay up when he receives the notification but if not it will cost another £25 to get it into court. He can't claim costs, and the fifty quid will be all you are risking.
 

Moon River

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Did you sign a contract? What did it say about notice? I'd go for your deposit back if you haven't been told of any reason why the owner thinks he should be entitled to keep it, and be inclined to put the whole amount down depending on the contract to see if he just pays up or give you bargaining power to meet somewhere in the middle. Receiving official court papers is pretty scary to most people!
 

Flyermc

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ive no idea about a time limit, but for me, id give it ago. If you'd had known that a stallion would be in the next field, would you have moved on?
 

bonny

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ive no idea about a time limit, but for me, id give it ago. If you'd had known that a stallion would be in the next field, would you have moved on?
Is it up to the owner of the field to tell you what’s in the next field ?
 

Flyermc

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im sure yard owners have a duty of care, so yes, if i was looking to move on to a new yard and there was stallion in the field next to my allocated field, id like to know in advance. A set-up like this would nt be suitable for a lot of people
 

blitznbobs

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Land contracts need to be in writing- if you don’t have it in writing you won’t have a case. I’d write it off to experience. Plus you moved on to it - whether or not you moved off quickly you did utilise the facilities such as they were.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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Mmmm...... difficult one this. The YO can argue that you saw the facilities and had plenty of time to inspect BEFORE you parted with your cash; you on the other hand could contest that you were promised this-and-that and put down money to that effect (i.e. entered into a "Contract") and therefore you are entitled to redress.

Are you a BHS Gold Member? If so, then I'd ring their Legal Dept and have a chat.

Do you have a "contract" or indeed anything in writing? Any Formal Agreements made on the work that needed to be done, and a timescale? Did you get a receipt for your money, and/or anything like a Rental Agreement to put the thing on a formal basis?? If the answer to these questions is "no", then frankly I think you may be on a bit of a loser....... sorry.

You could always consult a decent solicitor who is experienced in land/equine issues. Pay up and look sweet for say a half-hour of advice, and let them advise you on the best course of action. But unless you have signed-and-sealed written agreements in place which you can produce, I fear that you would only be throwing good money after bad.....
 

Hack4fun

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I think it is difficult to say if you have a case from this description. What representations were made to you? What questions did you ask? Did you explain how you wished to use it? Was it 3 acres with fencing? If it said fencing and it turned out to be electric fencing alone and he kept a stallion the other side of the fence then I think you can easily show it was not as represented. If this is business to consumer then that may strengthen your hand. I am not persuaded that you need written contracts. I don't think it matters one jot that you moved onto it. Write a letter before action. State the grounds that you are dissatisfied - the representations made and the reasons the owner knew the land to be unsuitable. Quantify your losses. State that unless you have payment within 7 days then you will instigate proceedings without further correspondence. Don't forget that civil litigation is settled on the balance of probabilities - to win you need to persuade the court that your case is stronger than the owner's. It is not 'beyond reasonable doubt'. You have the advert. If it is not as described then that is a strong argument in your favour. Other arguments would be for things like the quality of fencing, the water, failures to comply with undertakings given to you and also failure to return your deposit.
 

blitznbobs

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Land law is an exception to the rules about written v verbal contracts unfortunately- you are required to put leases and sale agreements in writing.
 

Hack4fun

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Land law is an exception to the rules about written v verbal contracts unfortunately- you are required to put leases and sale agreements in writing.
That may be the case for a sale or lease but the grazing was probably a verbal license to occupy. See here for example. https://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/88f86-constitutes-verbal-license-occupy-land-buildings.html

Licenses are perfectly normal and proper ways for people to occupy buildings and land; a lease is not needed. The existence of payments can be evidence that a contractual right exists.
 

Shay

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Even if you had a case - you also need to factor in your time, putting in the application, preparing documents and attending court. The other party will quite possibly not turn up (in which case you win by default) but then - how would you enforce the order? If the other party is unemployed - according to HMCTS - you are not likely to get your money back. Even if they have resources you may need to engage baliffs to act on your behalf. If it is about the principle then it may well be worth it for you. But if it is about money - your time is more valuable than the effort you will put into recovering it.
 
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