Hot branding to be banned in Scotland

Well, the UK and Ireland are two different countries, so they have their own laws... and in the UK, animal welfare is a devolved matter so it is for the devolved administrations to make their own laws. That's why Scotland has its own animal welfare act.
 
MagicMelon said:
Im glad this is being banned. I dislike freeze branding as well (after having my very first pony done - his reaction was not one I would ever like to see again). I've had a Bavarian WB who had a brand and my current horse is also meant to have two brands (cant see them though...). Pointless IMO. We have no herds of truly wild horses up here so dont need to do it. From a welfare point of view - of course it must hurt like hell! No horse tends to just take it happily, it would bloody hurt us so would hurt them too.
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You make sense to me.I can plug a horse from 12m away in a split second. With a chip device I can read the identity up to 1500m away. No pain, no risk of infection and IMO a better form of security. We have technology use it, it's kinder and better for everyone.
 
Tharg said:
To really explore something a person must look at the wider context.

Just because someone doesn't like something is not reason enough to stop it.

It is done as a means of identification, the horse does feel it at first but as I have already typed the pain is over in seconds.

It must also hurt the horse to have the MC/injections done, should these be stopped?

I would prefer to use as many means as possible to secure identity to prevent theft.
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I have to say that the statement about wanting to stop something just because I don't like it quite an irrelevant subject. I'm clearly disagreeing with the issue and am posting my thoughts and opinions. At no point did I say it must be banned simply because I don't like it.

If you read my previous posts you would see that I already acknowledge there is brief pain when micro chipped. However when the injection is done the pain/discomfort is immediately over. Freeze branding very slightly burns or is felt to an extent also. Hot branding is done solely now for speed and convenience when marking a herd for example, or burgeoning reasons that are closely linked to Warmbloods branded simply for what can be ascribed as fashion, basically.

With advanced freeze branding and microchipping there is simply no absolute and practical reason why people 'have' to hot brand an animal nowadays.
 
There is anectodal eveidence that three people restraining a foal for microchipping is more stressful than hot branding as foals are standing next to mother when branded and most people are very surprised at their first branding how little response there is in the foal. Vets in the UK charge for microchipping most breed societies in Germany do not charge any extra it is included in the price of the branding. Chris House Past President of BEVA says hot branding is barbaric and some of the stories about microchipping that are coming back to me are pretty dreadful. Three attempts and the chip fell out. Having seen non vets but approved persons chipping who are doing it all the time they are quick and skilfull and I have little support for the Policy of the RCVS. The number of vets who deal solely with large animals is declining rapidly as most are dealing with small animals and the amount of vets time in chipping has increased significantly and some practices took on less new vets this year as one leading vet said to me " I have better things to do than chip horses". I was given to understand by the Scottish Office that hot branding has not yet been banned but can only be done under license and they are giving out licenses.
 
snaptie said:
IHot branding is done solely now for speed and convenience when marking a herd for example, or burgeoning reasons that are closely linked to Warmbloods branded simply for what can be ascribed as fashion, basically.

With advanced freeze branding and microchipping there is simply no absolute and practical reason why people 'have' to hot brand an animal nowadays.
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You may be right, there is no good reason to hot brand a horse, and it is just fashion. However to return to my previous point, when this 'fashion' (which has been well established in Europe for many years) adds value to a horse being offered for sale, to prohibit or restrict the practice puts breeders in Scotland at a significant disadvantage at a time when British breeding needs maximum support.
 
Although I would again bring up the point that the Dutch outlawing branding does not seem to have hurt their market share . . .

I'm genuinely not sure whether people care much anymore. There is so much cross movement between the big studbooks no horse is "Dutch" or "Hannoverian" genetically anyway, it's merely a way of grouping horses, albeit with some attention to phenotype and different approval practices.

Yes, there is a long history - 100s of years - of branding in the Continental books but there is also a long history of competition, politics and other factors which don't really apply to books outside of that relatively small, hidebound area. And even the big books have cheerfully given up the traditional reason for branding - to identify a horse's region of birth, to "claim" that horse - to pursue revenue from producers all over the world. (I think there is an argument for registering horses only in the studbook of their country of origin but we all know how that debate goes . . .)

The Canadian Warmblood and Canadian Sport Horse also brand, although many people choose not to now for the simple reason that most people just don't care about a brand that does not carry they historical significance and cache of the old books. (It's also become harder to find people who are REALLY good at it. It's a skill like any other and has to be learned and practised.) I don't mean that to be offensive, I'm just not buying the idea that a Scottish brand gives a horse an advantage in the European market. Good breeding producing an outstanding individual gives a horse an advantage.
 
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Good breeding producing an outstanding individual gives a horse an advantage

I agree, this alone should be the standard by which performance horses are judged. Time will tell if the branding issue has any effect
 
The use of brands in Canada is strickly controlled as it was the only way of identifing cattle and is supported by goverment. The Dutch were caught on the hop over banning of branding and the use of the brand as a quilty mark of the studbook is only now being realised,too late.
What car does not have a logo.
 
sywell said:
The use of brands in Canada is strickly controlled as it was the only way of identifing cattle and is supported by goverment.
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Very true, the more "frontier" ethos of North America, along with the fact that there are still regions where stock runs on huge areas and is virtually feral for at least part of the year, means branding per se is not likely to be outlawed by either the US and Canada.

Which makes it even more interesting that many horse breeders in the CSHA and CWHBA don't bother to brand and don't feel it necessarily makes a difference. Perhaps it's proximity to the US rather than the European market that makes people feel it's less of an issue.

As far as the Dutch branding ban affecting their market share, are there stats on that?
 
I have purchased a warmblood filly this year that would normally be branded but will not because of these changes.

I contacted BHHS who advised that the society rules were changed removing the compulsion for horses to be branded if it is not legal in the country of birth. I am quite happy with this.

I don't think breeders will be disadvantaged. I certainly didn't get a discount because of the lack of a brand.

Anyway a microchip is now required by law so why put the foal through 2 uncomfortable procedures.

Also if the British Equine Vets Asocciation supports the ban I think their opinion is more valid than any "traditionalist" who simply wants a brand for fashion purposes.

Brands did have a purpose before we had the modern technology available now, DNA testing, microchips etc, and it was an acceptable method of identifying registered animals.

I personally do not want to put my new baby through any more stress than is necessary and as said earlier I am quite happy to admire my beatiful filly as nature intended her without a manmade scar on her flanks.
 
paulmac said:
I personally do not want to put my new baby through any more stress than is necessary and as said earlier I am quite happy to admire my beatiful filly as nature intended her without a manmade scar on her flanks.
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Just to put another slant to it, nature never intended horses to wear a saddle/bridle and be ridden.

If it was just vets who did the branding then the cynical part thinks it would not have come up as an issue. Vets are moving into equine dentistry.
 
Tharg said:
Just to put another slant to it, nature never intended horses to wear a saddle/bridle and be ridden.

If it was just vets who did the branding then the cynical part thinks it would not have come up as an issue. Vets are moving into equine dentistry.
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Ironically, this is similar to an issue you brought up within the recent thread regarding the bullfight. I don't think we were naturally evolved to shove sticks into cattle for entertainment (food, maybe but not to rake in the Euro's) but you appear to be willing to take your time and have to actually watch it happen before you decide if that is right or wrong. However, you immediately dismiss anyone who does not agree with the utterly unneeded practise of hot branding.

Unless you enjoy or gain profit from pointed sticks being pushed into animals it is not normal to feel you have to see it before deciding if the creature suffers or not. We do not live in the 1600's and we no longer have to slice up dogs and cats to determine if they actually feel pain, that was proven centuries ago, if it sates you.

After all. if you're so enthusiastic, why not get yourself a tattoo saying "I luv branding'?

Live by your means and your words.
 
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