Hot off the press...... The Meydan OFFICIAL result.

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mbequest

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Tim has just confirmed that the FEI have made an official announcement and awarded the final place in the league for 2010 to Britain. Belgium have been relegated.

It appears that rule 10 supercedes (?) rule 16.

The Chef de'Equipe for Belgium, Mr Somers has lodged an offical complaint.

Expect this to be resolved in court.
 
as with the olympic doping scandal, the FEI do not appear to have the wit to understand and implement their own rules. Rule 10 clearly applies to prize winning and 16 to relegation ergo as neither won a prize or was even close rule 16 should apply and the belgians stay up. yawn, this is going to go on for MONTHS!
 
Lucretia is right, or at least that's the way I read it.

Who wrote the rules? I feel a sacking coming on (and I'm looking for a job, FEI!
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)
 
you will probably find that there will be an appeal where someone bright will read the rules, tell belgium they are in and then britain will appeal that decision. in any case i expect the court of arbitration for sport are clearing their diaries already....
 
Rule 10 applies to the final classification, and it does specifically state it applies to any place in the final classification (not just for prizes). Therefore, all places are decided by Rule 10, and Rule 16 is redundant (there is no tie any more, due to the correct application of Rule 10).
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However, that is just my opinion, and other interpretations are possible.
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This will indeed drag on, all due to the fact that the FEI can't write a simple tie-breaker rule. Instead they write two contradictory ones! If you have a league, you have to have the same tie-breaking procedures for the whole league. You can't have one rule for the top and another for the bottom!

Clearly nobody sat down and tested these rules. Anyone with a logical brain and 5 minutes spent playing with the figures in Excel (other spreadsheets are available) could have seen this was a disaster waiting to happen. The FEI seem to have shot themselves in the foot - again!
 
GTF and Munchkin PMSL.

I am only sorry i wasnt a tthe press conference being as how i get on so well with the FEI already!
 
you mean a bit like the rule where they decided the central european world cup league would have to do an extra round to qualify themselves for the Final? the one that stated that even winning that leagues by over 40 points wasnt good enough to make the fina? can you imagine the FEI doing that to meredith or Ludger?
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[ QUOTE ]
GTF and Munchkin PMSL.

I am only sorry i wasnt a tthe press conference being as how i get on so well with the FEI already!

[/ QUOTE ]

*sniggers*

You could have had a word about London as well!
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According to tomorrow's Daily Telegraph (Pippa Cuckson, ex-H & H staff), FEI officials spent an hour discussing it before the announcement that Belgium is the unlucky nation.
 
Must admit, the more I read it, the more I think that's right. Rule 16 only seems to come into effect if rule 10 doesn't result in an outcome. I still think though that rule 16 should not exist on this basis, and a more straightforward tie-breaker rule should be written.
 
I personally think that the only thing that counts against rule 16 is that it comes further down the list than rule 10. I mean, it clearly states that it is to be taken into account with regards to relegations. It doesnt state that other rules should be taken into account first. Plus, has anybody worked out the probablility of Rule 16 being required AFTER Rule 10 has been applied? Surely its a tiny tiny possibility? Therefore, why was Rule 16 introduced in the first place? Shouldnt it be used in the case of a regulation arguement since nowhere does it state that Rule 10 overrules all other rules? It would afterall be next to useless and has (as we all now know) only served to cause confusion.

I have to say though, I actually thought they would have come to the other decision. Eitherway, due to the FEIs incompetence I think they should both be left in it for next year. I dont think they will ever come to a fair result.
 
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According to tomorrow's Daily Telegraph (Pippa Cuckson, ex-H & H staff), FEI officials spent an hour discussing it before the announcement that Belgium is the unlucky nation.

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yeah they spent quite alot of time discussing things in other cases, like for example when they reinstated bettina and CAS quickly told them that instead of discussing it they ought to apply the rules instead and as glenruby points out excelllently, the real thing against rule 16 is its postion on the list.....
and as I was in touch with someone in the press room at the time, i dont think it can possibly have been an hour from the final horse jumping etc until the release of the alleged final scores, which have been removed by the way off the FEI site.
we sent our strongest team out there today and could only just finish second, the french were missing one of their best horses, the belgians did not send half their european team neither did the dutch or the swiss. the USA were not at full strength either so as far as i can see we would do ourselves a favour spending a year in the promotional leagues while we sort ourselves out.
 
Glenruby: it's hugely open to interpretation and I'm honestly not sure either way, but I'm looking at the wording:

"Rule 10 of the FEI Nations Cup Series rulebook, which refers to team classification at the end of the season, states:"

Re rule 16 - "Teams tying on points for either of the last two places in the final classification of the Top League are separated by relegating the two teams with the greatest number of last places in the Top League competitions."

What is unclear is whether the "final classification" referred to in rule 16 is that at the end of competition, or further to the application of rule 10.

Also, I'm taking this from the H&H article... if this wording does not appear on the FEI website then I eat my words completely and revert to agreeing that rule 16 should be applied (the FEI site mysteriously died before I could read the rules
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). Anyone?
 
totally open to interpretation, but I think still think the first one is talking about the classification from top to bottom i.e. the prize winners and then if there is still a tie AT THE BOTTOM you apply 16 because that really is about who performed worse and I can see wht they are trying to do which is prevent a team with one fluke result (bit like us today
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) staying up at the expense of a team who might still have been bad but performed more consistently.
 
yes, certainly open to interpretation. However as far as the "fluke result" thing goes, both teams are very very similarly inconsisten (or consistent whichever way you choose to look at it
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). I think the only thing that can be said for certain is that the FEI are indeed incompetent.
ETS: Which ever result you favour in the end, there are quite a lot of assumptions to be made hence I dont think you could rule against Belgium too easily. Id actually think they should just leave both teams in to save themselves a headache.

On the plus side, I dont think this will have any nexgative press for the sport. Its actually vaguely interesting.
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unfortunately the one thing they cannot do is leave both teams up. because then they would open another can of worms with the teams who should have been promoted and to have 12 tweams in the super league would be against the flimsy rules and very unweldy for the organisers. so they will have to decide one or the toher or releget them both.
 
Yeah I presumed that Lucretia. Could drop the 2 easier. I just think that as we have seen, everything is open to interpretation or based on assumptions - i think even a court would have a hard job dciding one way or another. I guess we could be waiting quite a while tofind out!!
 
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