House training issues

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littlen

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Has anyone got any tips for me please!

Puppy is 5 months old and still isn't fully house trained. She will go out to the toilet outside quite happily when prompted and will go on walks etc. It's becoming a bit of an issue now as all of my others have house trained very quickly and none have ever been like this.

I don't crate train as they sleep in the utility room loose and I don't have room for a crate large enough to fit her in. She is happily with this arrangement and makes no noise and isn't distressed about it. She has another dog for company and seems happy with where she sleeps.

During the day she does not have accidents, well never when I am around but sometimes if I go out there is wee and poo everywhere and most nights she still has accidents despite being let out last thing and then again at 5am (and sometimes during the night too depending on if I wake up!)

I've tried making going outside exciting but she has no concept of waiting until morning or that she shouldn't just go if I am not there to open the door immediately. She will also go in her bed or on the other dogs bed so infant bothered about sleeping in wee! I don't feed her a thing after 4pm and they are let out almost hourly during the day. It's always properly cleaned up but she does think it's acceptable for her to go inside. She is very intelligent and has picked up all other training in hours.

I've never had one hard to house train and I'm not sure how to teach her that we do not go in the house. I understand that I needed to teach her that it's good to go outside and I do praise her for that but she is equally as happy to do it inside too. She will go on command outside so that is installed but I now need to make her understand she can't just go on the floor during the night or if I've popped to the shop.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!
 
Could there be a possibility that this is more of a nervous/anxiety issue as she only does it when alone at night or when you leave the house?
 
Yes I was also going to say are you sure it's not a bit of separation anxiety? Dogs normally won't toilet in their own beds, so I would be thinking she may be a bit anxious being left. Are there any other signs that she could be distressed when you leave her? Perhaps you could try and set up a camera to see how she acts?

Does she get a treat when she goes outside or just a 'good girl?'. If it's not anxiety maybe upping the reward will make going outside more appealing to her.
 
Umbongo said:
Could there be a possibility that this is more of a nervous/anxiety issue as she only does it when alone at night or when you leave the house?
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^ This.
I know you say you don't have space for a crate in the utility, but in my experience this is exactly the type of problem a crate can solve. It's not a long-term feature, necessarily, just a stepping stone. It's clear that you need to work out a place where she never ever toilets - for my dog that turned out to be my bedroom! She would go in every room in the house, but not in my bedroom. Possibly because she wasn't allowed in my bedroom for 6 months (she was a 2yo non-housetrained large dog!). She went in the house, out the house, at night (didn't ask to go out), etc ... In a crate in the bedroom the problem was solved. She never went overnight again + I would lock her in the bedroom (not the crate) to pop out and she was fine .. Now she has run of the house and no crate as I also have no place for a crate that large and we've never had another accident. Something went click. I did end up installing a kennel and run for her, for other reasons, so she's in there during the day and she does toilet in one corner of the run but that's fair enough as it's "outside". Ish.
 
Thankyou everyone.

She is crated at work during the day and will wee in her bed so I am not sure it will solve the issue but I can definitely try! She has no concept of holding it at all.

I think she could have a bit of separation anxiety however she seems very un distressed about being left! She is a clingy dog but often she is fast asleep on my return. She will wee if I shut her in a separate room to me but is happily playing/chewing a bone or whatever at the same time. We have an open plan house so I can see and hear her and she isn't crying etc.

If there is something like anxiety what could I do about it?
 
What time do you put her out for a wee in the night?

And at 5 months I was still watching Daisy like a hawk in the house. It sounds to me as if she simply needs more opportunities to go outside to toilet and that you're (perhaps) assuming that she'll just take herself out of her own accord when she wants a wee.

If she's wetting her bed in the day it's a clear signal that you're not weeing her enough.
 
littlen said:
Thankyou everyone.

She is crated at work during the day and will wee in her bed so I am not sure it will solve the issue but I can definitely try! She has no concept of holding it at all.

I think she could have a bit of separation anxiety however she seems very un distressed about being left! She is a clingy dog but often she is fast asleep on my return. She will wee if I shut her in a separate room to me but is happily playing/chewing a bone or whatever at the same time. We have an open plan house so I can see and hear her and she isn't crying etc.

If there is something like anxiety what could I do about it?
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Has she been seen by a vet? If she's not holding at all, it does all sound a bit unusual (i.e. chewing a bone and weeing - at same time?). One thing you said - that she can go out frequently during the day (think you said every hour earlier on). Does she ever get rewarded for holding; i.e. if you know she needs to go and you're watching her like a hawk (maybe she asks to go out?), can you stretch out that time and distract + play + reward so her control improves? Maybe that's a crazy thought!


For low level anxiety, I like the DAP diffuser - really helps my puppy. He has a bit of separation anxiety, so he still stays in his play pen even though he's nearly 8 months old. When I'm preparing to leave, he goes tot he pen; it's the only place he feel safe I think. Camera shows me that the departure is the stressful event for him as once the car leaves the driveway, he goes to get his kong, works on that, and then goes into his crate to sleep (he's little - crates are easy with little dogs!).
 
Sorry she dosent wee and play. What I meant was she will be playing/chewing and not making a sound and then I will go into the kitchen and there's wee by the door. She hasn't cried or been distressed in any way and certainly hasn't let me know if that makes sense.

I work from home so let them out every hour or two and praise her for going outside. When I am in the office I take and crate her and again she gets an oppertunity to go every 2 hours but she will often wee in the crate inbetween wee time.

She's pretty large (20kg at the moment!) and we have a tiny tiny cottage so crates are a nightmare hence we have used the utility room as a sort of crate, it's tiny so small enough to put two beds in with not much floor space but she will wee on old dogs bed and sit on her own or in the tiny space by the door.

This morning she was let out, went to toilet with lots of praise, came in and was settled. 15mins later I went out for 10mins and came back to poo everywhere. It's this type of thing that's getting frustrating as I can guarantee if I was there she wouldn't have done it but I need to pop out for an hour or so at a time occasionally.

She is not barking/crying/whining or destructive as I can hear her from the rest of the house!
 
amymay said:
What time do you put her out for a wee in the night?

And at 5 months I was still watching Daisy like a hawk in the house. It sounds to me as if she simply needs more opportunities to go outside to toilet and that you're (perhaps) assuming that she'll just take herself out of her own accord when she wants a wee.

If she's wetting her bed in the day it's a clear signal that you're not weeing her enough.
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I really, really don't want this to sound rude but you have house trained one dog and it was all fine. Really this pup sounds like she has SA, which is a totally different thing to not being housetrained. It is just like when something scares you you want to poo/wee but we are adults so unless the scary thing is REALLY scary we generally don't just wet ourselves. Actually, weeing in the bed is a sure sign of panic/anxiety to my mind and weeing by the door or in a designated spot would be a sign that she needed to go out more. By 5 months a dog should be clean in the house. (Unless it is a border terrier!).

OP, I have a pup with SA, I have never had one before and it is a PITA. Mine doesn't pee but she does destroy things if she gets stressed, she is slowly getting better (9 months now). mine is also in a warm comfortable place with another dog but she wants to be with me. That is not an option, so we just have to minimise the items to be chewed. In your shoes I would try a crate overnight, set up like the one she uses ion your office, shut her in it with something she loves (our pup has a toy bear!) and see if it helps.

Reading your last post I see she pooed when you left her, that sounds like fear (SA) to me.
 
littlen said:
This morning she was let out, went to toilet with lots of praise, came in and was settled. 15mins later I went out for 10mins and came back to poo everywhere. It's this type of thing that's getting frustrating as I can guarantee if I was there she wouldn't have done it but I need to pop out for an hour or so at a time occasionally.

She is not barking/crying/whining or destructive as I can hear her from the rest of the house!
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This bit does make it sound like SA to me... It sounds like she knows she needs to go outside but when you leave she finds it stressful so wees/poos.

SA is hard. A crate is a good way to try and tackle it but if that's not possible could you try and split your utility room in two and give her a little 'den'? That could help her feel more secure. Make it a fun place for her to be, feed her in there and give her toys/treats (a kong) so she knows fun things happen in there. Then when you have to leave you can pop her in there and leave.
I don't know what your routine is for leaving the dogs but make it as fuss free as possible, don't say bye to them or act like anything strange is happening. Just quietly pop them where they need to be with some fun things for the dogs to do and leave. And on your return don't make a big fuss either.

If she's only ever left on rare occasions it might be best to try and build it up so she's left for short amounts of time and then build up to longer. And try and do it more often so being left isn't this abnormal thing to her.

I know there are sprays and stuff you can get too but I've never used them. I've never had a dog that's had bad SA but this is how we've always built dogs up to being left on their own. The den/crate doesn't have to be a permanent thing but if she is anxious, then she needs a place to feel safe and secure at first.
 
If she is in the room and I am in the house she is fine as far as I am aware, she is not barking or crying that I can hear and she isn't destructive but she will wee if I am not there to police it!
 
is she shut in the room or can she see you via a childgate? a childgate is a useful way of building up the time you are away-so you can check in on her without going in, building up time and distance before working on being actually out of the house.

another possibility is the adaptil diffuser-people have mixed success with them but they might help calm her?
 
Please check she doesnt have a uti? From personal experience these are awful and also dont always show up in a urine sample.

Feed here a raw diet which keeps the body at the correct ph level so that if she has an irritated bladder for whatever reason the feed is not contributing to it. I bet if you put her on raw treated her for a potential uti that she would be alot better

Feeding raw will also regulate the pooing. She will only poo after she is fed so if she is fed three meals she will only poo three times a day. If you are feeding kibble then they contain loads of undigested extras which just come straight out and keep coming out at odd times. So its harder to gauge when she needs to go.
 
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Amymay the dog I had issue with died. I have one older male dog who is neutered.

Our doors are glass so she can always see me. Maybe this is the issue as she is rarely left alone unless I am upstairs as I work from home.

Zip I don't think it's a uti but will double check thanks!
 
littlen said:
Sorry she dosent wee and play. What I meant was she will be playing/chewing and not making a sound and then I will go into the kitchen and there's wee by the door. She hasn't cried or been distressed in any way and certainly hasn't let me know if that makes sense.

I work from home so let them out every hour or two and praise her for going outside. When I am in the office I take and crate her and again she gets an oppertunity to go every 2 hours but she will often wee in the crate inbetween wee time.

She's pretty large (20kg at the moment!) and we have a tiny tiny cottage so crates are a nightmare hence we have used the utility room as a sort of crate, it's tiny so small enough to put two beds in with not much floor space but she will wee on old dogs bed and sit on her own or in the tiny space by the door.

This morning she was let out, went to toilet with lots of praise, came in and was settled. 15mins later I went out for 10mins and came back to poo everywhere. It's this type of thing that's getting frustrating as I can guarantee if I was there she wouldn't have done it but I need to pop out for an hour or so at a time occasionally.

She is not barking/crying/whining or destructive as I can hear her from the rest of the house!
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If you are going to leave her, even for a very short time, make sure that she goes out immediately before you leave.. If she is weeing behind the door, she is heading in the right direction but unfortunately, you are not 'catching her while she is being good'. I have known plenty of adult dogs who will go to the door, without making a sound but of course, they can wait until you notice them. I think you will have to make a concerted effort to spot her slightest move towards the door. I know there are divided opinions about puppy pads but I think in this case they might be useful as they should direct her away from soiling the beds.
 
Thanks Pearl.


Last night I set alarms to check her and she was dry clean at 1am and 3am. Let her out both times and she did wee and came back in and went back to bed without fuss.

This morning I got up at 5:30 and there was poo and wee everywhere so we clearly have an issue where she is doing it for a reason other than actually needing too.

I'm off to buy a crate today but she sometimes can be unsettled in one so I'm not sure it will work!
 
littlen said:
I'm off to buy a crate today but she sometimes can be unsettled in one so I'm not sure it will work!
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The point of the crate isn't to just bung her in there with no training though :) if you make it fun, feed her in there, put toys in there and train her that it's a nice place to go and have a snooze. Then when you use it for it's proper purpose she will be more relaxed :)
 
She was crated at night as a smaller puppy until she outgrew the cage and seemed okay in there. I got rid of it as we couldn't fit in the next size up!

I do have a large crate here but unfortunately we can't put it up permanently as we don't have anywhere for it. It will have to be dismantled in the morning so I can't use it as a den as such. It literally will take up most of my living room and we can't fit it in the kitchen or utility at all.

She is crated at work for a few hours at a time and is okay but sometimes does bark for attention if I walk past.
 
What about fitting a dog flap? Have had a dog flap for my last 2 dogs and never had any issue with messing in the house past puppyhood.
I know you've said she's fairly big, so from a security perspective that might not be an ideal situation (dog flap big enough for burglars to fit through?!). Can the door from the utility to the rest of the house be locked?
This doesn't resolve any potential anxiety issue though, which I do think it sounds like she could have, bless her! Try an adaptil diffuser. I'm not convinced they made any difference to my dog but some people swear by them.
 
I'm off crate shopping today so hopefully I can find one big enough for her to be comfortable in but not as big as the one I have at the moment which is huge (could probably squash both in to be honest!)

She's such a good lovely puppy in every way, she will happily go outside to the toilet so it must be that she's a bit worried as I can't imagine it's deliberate as she's not the type of dog to be destructive or naughty.

I sometimes do leave the back door open if I go out and she is fine, it does solve the issue but I think they are quite vocal and I'm not sure the neighbors would be happy at night with them woofing at any noise they hear. They are german shepherds and love to protect the house from blowing leaves and squirrels even at night 😄

Zip I feed them both a good quality dry food with some additional meat and the occasional bit of veg or leftovers added in.
 
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