How accurate are passports ?

H

horse.love92

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 July 2010
Messages
628
Location
Dorset
Visit site
So a year or so ago I bought a horse stating he was 4 yrs 11 months and the passport matched this . Since then I was told by the dentist he had only just turned 4 when I bought him ! ( he is now 5) .
Are passports not that accurate ? He was from Ireland if this helps .
 
Not very accurate. Mine says my horse is TB x ID, but when I have looked into her breeding she is TB cross sports horse. Also has great sire and great dam the wrong way round. According to her passport, Millreef (as in the race horse) was a mare!
 
Well my horse is down as just 'diesel' but when I asked his breeder about it he said it should be 'dodmoor diesel' even though he's the one who got the passport!! He also isn't marked up.in the passport, they have only marked in his whirls. Considering he is coloured id say a mark up was pretty significant!!! So now I am going to gave to sort this out which costs money :-( boohooooo
 
Not particularly accurate!
I always check now the date of issue of the passport, and make sure that the drawing matches the horse, and hasn't been altered. I have tended to find in my experience the earlier on the passport was issued in the life of the horse the more accurate the age.
 
Is accuracy of the description all that important now we have microchips?

Some descriptions are a matter of opinion, for example "small" for a whorl or a marking could mean two different things to two different people!
Is it possible to fake a micro chip? Yes, I know they sometimes fail or get lost but some people are so fussy it doesn't make sense. Stating colours of foals is crazy as many change. For example, black foals can end up white horses!

A couple of photographs along with the chip number would be much more useful in my opinion and a lot easier in this day and age.
 
One of the passports i have for my two says specifically that the microchip is sufficient ID and that if inserted or present at time of passporting the drawing does not need to be filled in

One of my two i suspect is a different age but i put that down to him being rounded up off the hills so his age was possibly guessed. Unless there are breeding records i would imagine this could be quite common of horses that have been left to roam/abandoned/bought from travellers etc etc

Of course the dentist may have it wrong...
 
How good they are depends partly on the breeder and his/her vet - and partly on the breed society issuing them. If they're ID only passport, obviously just the former.

My vet is VERY careful with ID drawings - and if we think a horse MIGHT go grey we put chestnut(grey?) on the form. And with likely brood mares, I also include the base colour even if they are obviously grey when the ID document is done.

Micro-chips aren't 100% reliable - neither are the micro-chip scanners. One of my 2 year olds was scanned to check her chip at grading and the vet's scanner didn't find it at all - although it found and read chips that were same type, put in by the same vet etc. Two weeks later, my vet's (identical) scanner read the chip with no trouble! Wierd!

Photographs taken when a foal is 6 months old wouldn't be much use if the foal is likely to go grey!
 
Last edited:
We've had issues with my Connies passport- says she is black, obviously this was when she was a foal as she is now grey! Also her microchip has broken/got lost so we are having to have her remicrochipped and have her passport altered. Her passport currently doesn't really match the pony, apart from her whorls which are in pretty standard places!

My coloureds passport is excellent though, as there is an (adorable!!) photo of her as a foal showing her markings, so there's no way you could mistake her!
 
Friend was having a horse vetted & chip didn't match passport, seller appeared genuinely mortified & had not had a vetting when they bought it.
Obviously she has pulled out of purchase, but must mean there is 2 horses our there with wrong passport. But its a bay warmblood, no white markings so passport looks ok. Horses too old for chips, this may be quite common?
 
Passports isn't save at all. Its the microchip. I am thinking the next one I buy to get a lend of scanner and compare chip to one in book. This is really only way to confirm. It is what you are buying.
 
What type of passport is it? If a green book with full breeding then actually should be very accurate and I would trust it more than the dentist
 
Its the seller not the passport. There is dealers buying passports of deceased horses and using them for there new horses or stolen horses. I heard that last year. Passport fine just might not belong to the horse ur buying. That's why microchips need to be scanned at sales and that isn't being done in every sale everyday.
 
The current passport system is a joke. They need to bring the NED back, have fewer, better PIO's and train the people filling out the passports properly.

One of my horses has two passports as the Stud (where she was bred) lost her AHS one and instead of paying lots for a duplicate, they got a cheap ID one instead from another PIO. Cue a panic from me when I found this out, several years into owning her and a worried call to the AHS who were very helpful.

I think that a microchip combined with a DNA profile would work, with all the information held by a reinstated NED.
 
WelshD said:
One of the passports i have for my two says specifically that the microchip is sufficient ID and that if inserted or present at time of passporting the drawing does not need to be filled in
.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Mine need the drawing done still, but I've had a passport done for another that didn't require drawing, though I had it done anyway.

amage said:
What type of passport is it? If a green book with full breeding then actually should be very accurate and I would trust it more than the dentist
Click to expand...

Agreed again. I've had vets and dentists query the age of horses I am 100% sure of the age on (due to having them since foals, so I win! :D ). Ageing from teeth is all very well but it's not really a precise thing, it's more of a guideline.

Faracat said:
The current passport system is a joke. They need to bring the NED back, have fewer, better PIO's and train the people filling out the passports properly.
Click to expand...

I thought NED was a bit of a joke for accuracy, tbh. Checking my horses' passport details on there almost ALL of them were entered incorrectly, with details differing from the passports.
 
Pacco's passport said he was 20 (The dentist said he was closer to 30!) There's a mule on preloved advertised as a donkey as that's what the passport said!!!!! :)
 
Mine is passported as a 14.2hh dun cob, he's actually a 15hh buckskin, but he is microchipped, I've never had him scanned though to check the details. Dentist says his age matches up and his picture looks ok so I assume it IS him.
 
The thing with the heights though, passports done as foals are often going to just have heights as in-the-region-of guesstimates.
 
I never got a passport for Anneigh when i got her? I called the passport agency and I also arranged for my vet to visit and microchip and judge her age by her teeth, she did the drawing and I sent if off. For all they know she could have been stolen???
 
Capriole said:
The thing with the heights though, passports done as foals are often going to just have heights as in-the-region-of guesstimates.
Click to expand...

Mine was passported just before I bought him as a 7 years old , so he was probably at full height by then, think whoever filled it in just didn't bother to actually measure him. Don't know why he was passported so late though, is there a law about when it has to be done by?
 
So a new, improved version of NED is needed. I do think that having all the information on one database is important.

My AHS passports don't have the horse's height on them at all. The ID only passport does and it's wrong even though it was done when CM was rising 8.
 
My horses passport says he is 20 but know he is older! also he is down as skewbald but again I think he is tricoloured (but I could be wrong!) and his height in the passport is 14hh and I bought him as 13.3hh lol :)
 
Horselover92 - what year was your horse's passport issued? If it was issued years ago then the age in the passport is less likely to be wrong. Also is breeding recorded? Again if so, the age is less likely to be wrong. Also, while aging by teeth is usually more accurate with yougner horses, it is still not accurate so your horse may well be 5 with 4yo teeth. Does he have his adult corner incisors at all?


Tabbi - tricoloured comes under the official tag of skewbald. Realistically there is not much difference between 13.3hh and 4hh so again not inaccurate. Accuracy of age, again is related to when the passport was issued. Modern passports from non-breeding societies rarely even record age anymore (which I think is wrong) - the reason for this is that the age is guess work only in mature horses.
 
Last edited:
JanetGeorge said:
How good they are depends partly on the breeder and his/her vet - and partly on the breed society issuing them. If they're ID only passport, obviously just the former.

My vet is VERY careful with ID drawings - and if we think a horse MIGHT go grey we put chestnut(grey?) on the form. And with likely brood mares, I also include the base colour even if they are obviously grey when the ID document is done.

Micro-chips aren't 100% reliable - neither are the micro-chip scanners. One of my 2 year olds was scanned to check her chip at grading and the vet's scanner didn't find it at all - although it found and read chips that were same type, put in by the same vet etc. Two weeks later, my vet's (identical) scanner read the chip with no trouble! Wierd!

Photographs taken when a foal is 6 months old wouldn't be much use if the foal is likely to go grey!
Click to expand...

In France, the ID with markings is sent off to the National Stud, who issue a passport with a blank outline but written description. When the foal is a year old the vet returns to mark the blank passport which is returned to the National Stud. This gives HN a chance to check for errors. A horse cannot compete until the ID is validated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top