How are they still allowed to be a livery yard?

[TheChestnutThing]

So a few years ago a local yard was investigated for cruelty and neglect. Many of the horses were confiscated and as the yard manager was aware, others were hidden. At least 2 horses died after rescue due to the state they were in.

My question/concern is…

This yard is still in operation! In fact it’s been expanded by the owner who has been made aware that the manager had neglect charges against her and he still allows said person to run the yard. The yard is not advertised, but when people pop on Facebook that they are looking for…one of the managers buddies pops up with a comment.

How is this yard still allowed to operate under the same person?! Why is the owner of the property not terminating the lease agreement.

I just cannot understand how these people (in general) keep getting away with neglect and abuse time and time again and are still allowed to run yards/keep horses/animals.

 

[ycbm]

Why was nobody prosecuted? If they had been prosecuted there would also have been a banning order preventing them from being responsible for the management of horses.

Having said that, the bar is too high for prosecution. A horse I sold was starved and I bought him back when I found out. The RSPCA considered a prosecution but a vet said he was not thin enough for a conviction, especially as the livery yard/riding school where it happened was absolutely immaculate.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Why was nobody prosecuted? If they had been prosecuted there would also have been a banning order preventing them from being responsible for the management of horses.

Having said that, the bar is too high for prosecution. A horse I sold was starved and I bought him back when I found out. The RSPCA consisted a prosecution but a vet said he was not thin enough for a conviction, especially as the livery yard/riding school where it happened was absolutely immaculate.

I don’t know why no one was prosecuted tbh. I’ve contacted the inspector again (I mean this was 2019/2020) to find out what the outcome was as I do no the YM was not allowed to keep horses after that.

I just hate that they are still running a business, and the owner of the property has allowed this (the owner also owns another facility that runs BS shows).

They are one of the only yards in the area aswell.

 

[Peglo]

A farmer that lives near me was charged with neglect. Several cows had to be put down and others were in a terrible state and living in dreadful conditions. He got a suspended sentence and was allowed to carry on farming. It’s so disgusting when he wilfully didn’t bother to look after them and is free to inflict more suffering to animals if he chooses.
I’m sure being a councillor had nothing to do with his non punishment.

 

[SEL]

I reported a riding school some years ago to the RSPCA. When the inspector phoned me back it turned out they were aware there were issues but said the bar hadn't been reached. I'd taken a sneaky photo of two of the emaciated horses I'd seen out on a ride and robustly told her that the bar was definitely reached and I expected to hear action was being taken.

The RS was closed down (actually I think the council did more than the RSPCA in that respect) but neither of the owners had charges brought against them and there was nothing to stop them opening up somewhere else. The council may have been able to stop them running a RS but they wouldn't have been able to stop them owning horses or running a livery yard.

 

[Highmileagecob]

If the YO has been banned, he or she simply employs a manager and says the horses belong to them, or points to a family member as the owner. RSPCA will not act if the horses can stand and look as if some food and water is getting to them. We have just had a neglect case on our yard, RSPCA attended, said condition was good, and they would not take action until the horse was clearly suffering. Not really what we wanted to hear...

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s much more difficult to prosecute than you think .
The RSPCA has to pretty sure they will win before they take a prosecution.
They can’t afford to waste resources .
The costs of the large high profile rescues when many horses are taken in are eye watering .
I am not involved in welfare work any more but know people who are professionally involved it’s extremely difficult atm.
I really can’t guess how much the RSPCA is spending caring for those horses who are seized it’s a huge sum .

 

[PeterNatt]

If you have any Welfare issues I would initially contact World Horse Welfare as they specialise in Horses.

WHW (World Horse Welfare) Tel: 0800 0480 180 8.00 a.m. – 5.30 p.m. Monday – Friday

BHS (British Horse Society) Tel: 0247 6840 517 24/7

RSPCA (Royal Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals) Tel: 0300 1234 999 24/7

 

[LEC]

The big issue is equestrian vs agriculture. Both are pretty weak when it comes to welfare though mechanisms are more straightforward for agriculture as done through trading standards but usually with a tonne of warnings before it gets as far as court but at least trading standards can fine. I have and always will do, have a huge issue with everything needing to be private prosecution and it being done by charities. It’s a serious weakness of the law as it currently stands with animal welfare mainly because there is no appetite to change it and a more rigid welfare act would require serious money as would need to take the mechanism out of charities hands and into government. Again this would be easier if pet owning was licensed… but there is no appetite for that from general public as rightfully it would need to derive an income.

If it’s a business then worth trying trading standards but they are stretched and their remit is huge.

 

[Lexi 123]

Some of the yards in my area would shock people a lot of uk people. the livery yard are under agriculture so the Irish government thinks they are cow / sheep farms they aren’t aware they are livery yards and aren’t even aware there is horses on property as you have to notified the department of agriculture if you have horses on a farm. For livery yard you have to have them under equestrian use so no inspections . In saying this some of the yard are amazing and take well care of the horses and have amazing facilities .

 

[splashgirl45]

The big issue is equestrian vs agriculture. Both are pretty weak when it comes to welfare though mechanisms are more straightforward for agriculture as done through trading standards but usually with a tonne of warnings before it gets as far as court but at least trading standards can fine. I have and always will do, have a huge issue with everything needing to be private prosecution and it being done by charities. It’s a serious weakness of the law as it currently stands with animal welfare mainly because there is no appetite to change it and a more rigid welfare act would require serious money as would need to take the mechanism out of charities hands and into government. Again this would be easier if pet owning was licensed… but there is no appetite for that from general public as rightfully it would need to derive an income.

If it’s a business then worth trying trading standards but they are stretched and their remit is huge.

Personally I would have been prepared to pay for a license to own my horse or my dogs, I’m pretty sure that lots of people would. We know there’s a certain element of society who wouldn’t but if enough people did there would be money available to enforce the regulation and eventually conditions would improve for many animals

 

[Pedantic]

why, because we live in a NOFA

 

[Kaylum]

Depends exactly what the ban states. If the rspca did the prosecution then you need to inform them of the situation and they will check.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

It just baffles me really. I mean it’s common knowledge that this has happened and still people keep their horses there. I had a conversation with someone I know who moved there a few weeks ago and they didn’t seem to care that the woman has been done for neglect and starvation and had horses die under her care. It just really really baffles me.
It also baffles me that the very wealthy land owners do not care either. I mean I certainly would not want to be associated with a person like that!

I really wish that all stable yards operating as businesses would have to be licensed. I mean this place doesn’t even have insurance!

 

[Green Bean]

I believe the RSPCA is a money hungry organisation who says they are concerned for the welfare of all animals and takes donations but then does very little, if anything at all, to stop cruelty for which they say theu are concerned about. I know it sounds harsh but others on this thread seem to say the same thing. I have personal experience on this too and actually stopped my monthly donation to them because of it.
For the OP, I can't say I am surprised, I think we are getting sick and tired of the law being so pathetic against animal rights. The campaign here should be to change the laws, bylaws, minimum care requirements and so. Until there is legislation that has gone through parliament that we can use to force those in power to act, we have no real voice. (apologies, I am quite upset about this post)

 

[Bobthecob15]

Can they be reported to the council? Who owns the lease?

 

[PeterNatt]

Scotland is hoping to introduce a Licencing system for Livery Yards.

 

[Goldenstar]

Scotland is hoping to introduce a Licencing system for Livery Yards.

Licensing is a thorny problem and one the most worrying issues is that some of the best homes for horses belonging to people who don’t have their own places to keep them are a bit add hoc sharing friends places or a little Croft belonging to a local farmer some of the nicest situations for horses can be like this .
Make a licensing system too stringent and you remove these places make regulation to loose and it does not work .
In a worse case situation too draconian regulation and you have a mass closure of yards homeless horses and rising costs in those yards that remain .
Effective regulation costs money and it needs to enforced those costs are passed on through the yards to customers .

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Scotland is hoping to introduce a Licencing system for Livery Yards.

Good.
Currently equines fall in a big hole, they are neither 'agricultural' animals nor domestic pets.

I'd like all livery places to come under the boarding of animals act, whether it's a full livery or DIY grass livery, anyone who takes money for equines lodging on their land. Will never happen in my lifetime I expect.