How big is the demand for Paddock Paradise?

Considering how many people have overweight horses, and the lack of suitable grazing for fatties at yards (IME), I think there would be a fair few people interested. I'd love to have the space and interesting enough terrain to do a "proper" one!
 
It is a track that is set up around the field, done properly it has several different types of ground such as pea gravel, water, larger cobbles etc. It was originally about improving the hoof quality for unshod horses but seems to be popular with people wanting to get weight of their lami prone horses (and keep it off) whilst also restricting access to grass. The idea is that the horses move naturally around the track system, the way they would keep moving in the wild, there are feeding and water stations at different points around the track.
 
wellsat said:
I'd love it on a livery yard bu IME the fields aren't usually that big.
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Which would be best, paddock paradise or a yard with paddocks set up for fatties/lami prone horses and catering for those who want individual turnout for their horses. I have just looked at a PP forum and within the first couple of minutes came up with problems for a livery yard. The horses are supposed to be turned out off track several times a day to allow free play, lots of people have problems with dominance issues and bullying. How would people feel about horses being mixed with those belonging to others, those who have been used to having individual turnout. It is just not as straightforward as it first seems!
 
I wouldn't want my three mixing with others. They are an established herd, adding to them would no doubt cause issues and I can without kicks and bites.

In answer to your original question, if our yard had one of these I might want to turn mine out for a bit. But I would probably rather have a horse walker.
 
I for one would love one, if just to get the weight off my balloon-pony. :mad: The difficulty with implementing it here is that the cheapo version (simply partitioning a track off with electric fence) is vulnerable to extreme mud and pony-disassembled fencing, whereas the full-on version described by hch4971 would, I'm guessing, be a fairly expensive investment for a livery yard. :(
 
My friend and I have been running a track round our field the past month or so in this fashion - its not 'proper' though since we don't have different terrains etc, and field was hardly huge to begin with (soil type etc of local area means predominant field type offered by livery are small). My friend prefers to keep her mare on restricted grazing since she tends to be a fatty over summer but she's limited by recurring leg issues with how much work she can do with her.

We have found the pp system a good compromise between her and my horse's needs. I'm not a big fan of strip grazing (particularly if the horse doesn't really need to be on restricted grazing, as in my mare's case) since I think it leads to the horse's gorging whenever they're given a little bit more and then just standing around on the small area when they've finished for the remaining 23 hours a day (our horses our out 24/7, mine isn't that interested in playing and we want to discourage friends mare from hooning round due to aforementioned leg problems). With the pp system they get the same amount/ slightly more grass a day but because its spread around the track (we'd bow in a few posts a day on each side, and are slowly shuffling the inner square along) they have to walk round to get between the new grass patches, and they tend to mooch round a lot more even once they've finished the new stuff, which is definitely preferable to them just standing around.

On the other hand it is a complete pain in the arse to maintain when you're using electric fencing, since its difficult to get enough tension in the tape when you can't brace against a fixed fence post; we've ended up having two fence posts in each corner to try to give added support. Its needed a lot of tlc on days when its been windy or the battery's run down so they can lean on it!

On the whole I think we'll use it again next summer if we're sharing a field again, and if I had a good doer a yard having an inbuilt pp system would be a big bonus. :)
 
Malibu_Stacy said:
On the other hand it is a complete pain in the arse to maintain when you're using electric fencing, since its difficult to get enough tension in the tape when you can't brace against a fixed fence post; we've ended up having two fence posts in each corner to try to give added support. Its needed a lot of tlc on days when its been windy or the battery's run down so they can lean on it!
. :)
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Call in at one of the agricultural merchants, I found some corner post for electric fencing. Wonderful things which have a base with four spikes into the ground so you can tension the rest of the fence. OK they aren't that tall so if you use the 4" horse posts you have to fasten one to them, but overall a great idea.
 
rockysmum said:
Call in at one of the agricultural merchants, I found some corner post for electric fencing. Wonderful things which have a base with four spikes into the ground so you can tension the rest of the fence. OK they aren't that tall so if you use the 4" horse posts you have to fasten one to them, but overall a great idea.
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why did we not figure this out earlier! (seriously the number of fence posts we have permanently maimed from being in the corners is ridiculous! :rolleyes:)
 
I think many people would like the option but would be unwilling to PAY for the option. Done properly, it's not cheap to set up and needs looking after - I'm not sure I'd trust a DIY model for a set up I'd invested a fair bit in. Also, it works best with a small stable herd, which seems to be something people don't want - they either want their horses alone or want to be able to move them at will.

The few places that do it here seem to be "residential" in that they take horses for rehab and/or training, either as permanent residents or for a set period. That way one person is making the decisions and it's easier to maintain a cohesive approach.

Personally, I have a horse I'd be interested in trying it on (the track system, not just limited grazing) but can't see how I'd get that done without having my own land.
 
It can be as simple as an electric taped track round the edge of even a small field. There's no reason it can't be combined with stabling exercize is still increased for the time out, but hay may have to be provided if there is little/no grass. The point is to use our imagination and think of ways of increasing exercise that fit with what we've got. It's not something that has to be done perfectly or all year round if you have wet fields etc.

http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/paddockparadiseinnorthwales.html
http://paddockparadise.wetpaint.com/page/Paddock+Paradise+Videos

Being on my own I've no real idea of the demand for PP but I do think it is something that should be considered at yards especially with todays obesity problems in horses.
 
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i have a small paddock on a livery yard, and i have used this system for the last 3 ish years. i set it up in the spring and take it down in the winter, helps keep a steady weight and also i give the middle of the field a rest, i use a sythe to cut this when it is long grass and chuck on the track. doing this i have an ok paddock all year round and grass in the winter :)
 
I have a grass tack system on my livery yard - all horses get chucked out together, you have the choice of putting your horse on the track, or in the middle. Some horses get bought in at night, others don;t, I don't really know why this would matter?!

It works really well - yes electric fencing is a pain in the arse, as it always is....but on the whole, a great little system....!
 
Where has this Paddock Paradise system come from? I had never heard of it until it started cropping up on this forum! I don't get how it is that beneficial - what's the point of it? How wide/long do these 'tracks' need to be?
 
ladyt25 said:
Where has this Paddock Paradise system come from? I had never heard of it until it started cropping up on this forum! I don't get how it is that beneficial - what's the point of it? How wide/long do these 'tracks' need to be?
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See the links I put up.

I believe Jaime Jackson saw a version and then popularized it with his book...
Paddock Paradise. ;)
 
ladyt25 said:
Where has this Paddock Paradise system come from? I had never heard of it until it started cropping up on this forum! I don't get how it is that beneficial - what's the point of it? How wide/long do these 'tracks' need to be?
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it is benificial as the horse is walking more and increasing the exercise, as said in the thread above the were first used to maintain barefoot hoof condition. people also now use it to maintain a healthy weight.

so if you have a fat horse on a small paddock he is not going to move as much as if you put him on a track around the field, i put water at one end away from the gate and if you have to feed hay etc at another place on the track.

how long ....................as big as your field my paddock is 2/3rd an acre, how wide depends on the herd structure if you have a bully you can make the corners wider so they get away from them, but mine are about 6-8ft wide
 
Hmm, I can see maybe how it benefits if they are not on larger fields then. I reckon our lot do enough walking about as the water is at one side of the field and the stables (area where they are fed) is over the other side, plus they have a good few hills and different terrain.

I wonder if it will really catch on then. Will be interesting to see.
 
ladyt25 said:
Where has this Paddock Paradise system come from? I had never heard of it until it started cropping up on this forum! I don't get how it is that beneficial - what's the point of it? How wide/long do these 'tracks' need to be?
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It came from USA of course, where the barefoot movement began. It is the creation of one of the founder members of barefoot horses, Jamie Jackson. Here's a link to a UK based website with lots of info
http://successful-natural-horsecare.com/
The whole idea is to get the horse moving around more instead of being confined to a small area. They are supposed to be more contented and relaxed because they are living very close to a natural lifestyle instead of being confined to stables, which causes underlying stress. If there is a small herd, they can interact as they would in the wild, something we tend forget about is that domestic horses still have wild instincts.
You vary the width and provide larger areas where they can roll or lie down or play.
I constructed one in my small paddock I rented last year which was only approx half an acre but it was an oblong strip. I sectioned it off into three and kept the middle driest section for winter and made a corridor at either side so he could get from the top to the bottom section. When one side got muddy, I switched to the corridor on the other side. I think I have a pic in my album of my mini PP.
Even though he is Cushings, he was able to live out in this system and I could restrict to the bottom bit if necessary but mostly he would be walking up and down throughout the day and night and his feet and health were the best he'd been since being diagnosed PPID.
 
I think they are a great idea :) They encourage movement and can create different a more interesting enviroment for your horse. I set up one earlier this year on a 20' track around a 1.5 acre paddock (larger track as my friend's boy is 'wonky!'), they definately moved around more.
When I move my boys to their 1 acre field I will make one up with a 10-14' (varying widths) track, the gateway will have hardcore laid and this will become part of the track and I am also asking if I could have some woodchip down in one corner which looks like it could get muddy.
I use wooden posts in each corner for support and then 1 in the middle of long stretches (the gateway will have 4 to create a corral area too). Below is the link to the first track, will put up photos of the next one when done, the fence will be coming down when wet so the track doesn't become churned up.
http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=gh11&thread=115825&page=1
 
Also a fantastic system for grassland management as the centre paddocks can be left for the super models or for haylage while the porkers have the headland.
We have it running in a sort of figure of eight system around 5 paddocks. We have only had it in a year and are delighted with it so far; its not rocket science mind you and headland grazing is nothing new but still its good to get the word out there.
Now that we have seen it in action we will extend it across another 10 acres.
There are holding/turning areas at each end (20x20) which ensure horses do not get cornered, gates at either side.
All of ours come in every evening. Whatever side they are on we go to the other side to call them in to up the activity.
 
Initially I thought Paradise Paddocks were a nice idea, until I saw from varioujs photos posted on other PP threads the state the land is left in (the tracks). It seems to me to be a sure way of giving yourself (if you are the landowner) very long-term problems with battered, weed-prone tracks and associated ruttin and mud wallows in winter.

I would never allow them to be used here. We had a track like a PP track one winter for some reason to do with tree felling. It was a nightmare, and the ground took about 3 years to recover. Our pasture land takes the form of a plateau and a water meadow, linked by a steep incline. We just make sure that the grazing paddock currently in use combines all three elements.
 
muff747 said:
It came from USA of course, where the barefoot movement began. It is the creation of one of the founder members of barefoot horses, Jamie Jackson. Here's a link to a UK based website with lots of info
http://successful-natural-horsecare.com/
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Are you sure about that? On his site he says he "pioneered" it in 2006 but I remember reading about it years earlier, I think re someone doing it in Australia but I could have that wrong. I also saw references ages ago is Swedish, I believe. It's a concept that's been around for some time, with the idea of trying to mimic how "wild" horses move and live.
 
I think you can easily miss the point of pp... Not supposed to be a lush track of grass, although better than a full field of grass.

It's supposed to provide a mixture of terrains and different types of forage. It will be expensive to do and with our wet winters, drainage would be the biggest investment.

it's not cheap, but it is simple and it's restrictions lie only within the mind...
 
Hi Tallyho, The point I was trying to make, not very well obviously, is the state the land is left in AFTER you have finished using it as Paradise tracks.

Ihave always looked at land use in the long term. It doesn't matter whether the tracks, when finished with, are lush or not - what does matter is that they haven't been turned into battered, weed infested, rutted pathways which will probably need a lot of remedial work to get them back to the standard of good pastureland/heathland/whatever that presumably they once were.
 
rosefolly - Well hopefully the idea will "stick" as there will always be horses that need to lose weight. It is also good for any horse as it promotes contentment and keeps them fitter. The whole point of the track is to cause the grass to wear out so there is very little for the fatties or laminics cannot get much but of course you don't want it to get rutted and weed infested
If you are unfortunate enough to have very wet land close to the water table, then PP may not work for you, but it all depends on the mind set - as someone else said. If you want it to, you will find a way for it to work.
When my little track system started getting churned up, I widened the track at that point, or moved it to the other side of my little narrow paddock and rested that side, as you would do if you had to manage ordinary paddocks, you would rotate the grazing and move the horses to another paddock when one got too churned up.
Ideally the length of the tracks would be something like the same area as a starvation paddock but instead of being stood relatively motionless, the horses have to travel further to pick at bits of grass here and there.
My Cushings gelding cannot tolerate any grass before becoming footy so I would love a PP where I would actively kill as much grass as possible and in place would feed the hay. Therefore he would be able to be out 24/7 without access to grass but with lots and lots of exercise.
The expense is only applicable if you go the whole hog and replace parts of the track surface with other materials. If you look at my albums, I created a small PP on my narrow paddock and his feet and health was the best he'd been in the last three years.
 
Muff 747 - yes I see where you're coming from, and if you have a horse with a big laminitis problem or Cushings or barefoot I can see why you would do it. I have a so far once-only laminitic and am finding (touch wood) that since recovery (it was winter, haylage/related lami) that she's keeping absolutely fine on short grass, a very hilly hardwork field, AND PLENTY OF RIDING!!

As I speak I can see her from the window; she's tramping briskly along the bed of the brook - almost dry from the lack of rain - plonking happily over the boulders and seizing those last mouthfuls of water mint that may save her from total starvation. She is shod and TG is totally sound again.

As in all things equine, I guess it's horses for courses - literally in this case.
 
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