HOW BLOODY DREADFUL...

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God how sad - you don't even know that. I'm sure they feel bad enough as it is, have you never made any mistakes in your life <not saying they did make one>

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No I dont know at all. I am just saying that I find it strange that someone wouldnt be aware of a horse 'falling' out of a trailer.

tricksibell, you're not doing yourself any favours by jumping on everyone who has a question about this.

I am not denying it is sad, but am just saying there are things that they might have been able to do to prevent this tragedy. Obviously having a faulty trailer is the main problem and that is not their fault at all. I regularly travel with my boss and we tow a trailer and do thorough safety checks before we embark on any journey. Bondi is tied up and has breach bars front and back.
 
Its just a shame that the tragedy may have been averted if the driver was a little more alert.

I'm just expressing my views, not jumping on anyone - but wouldnt the same be said for you for jumping on the driver? The above doesnt sound like a question, more like a statement on your part.

The ramp might have gone down, horse fell out - they stopped but not in time for the lorry not to have hit the horse. lets me honest here, horses are pretty intelligent i'm sure said horse would have gotten out the way in time if it had had the chance.

But blame away.....
 
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Its just a shame that the tragedy may have been averted if the driver was a little more alert.

I'm just expressing my views, not jumping on anyone - but wouldnt the same be said for you for jumping on the driver? The above doesnt sound like a question, more like a statement on your part.

The ramp might have gone down, horse fell out - they stopped but not in time for the lorry not to have hit the horse. lets me honest here, horses are pretty intelligent i'm sure said horse would have gotten out the way in time if it had had the chance.

But blame away.....

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Point out WHERE I have placed blame please.

What I said was not a question nor a statement, but my honest opinion. You may not like it, but thats it.

Yes the horse would have probably got out of the way if it had the chance, I dont disagree.....but..... would the horse have fallen out if it was tied up or had breach bars behind it? Thats my question.
 
Quote: "I dont think anyone should be putting the blame on anyone! Were you there? no didnt think so!

They have all been through a terrible ordeal, dont see why some people seem to want to add to it by being horrible.

RIP horse!

TB x "

tricksibell85, the quote above is how you responded to my earlier post, where I just stated that I was shocked that they hadn't heard the ramp drop and be dragged. I do not know the state of their rear breach strap? if they had one at all or had this also failed?

It is very concerning as people who do have trailers are obviously worried by this and I was just asking questions.

I am sorry that you think I am taking away from the fact that this was a tragic accident and one that will hopefully be avoided in the future by having these discussions.
 
Its just a shame that the tragedy may have been averted if the driver was a little more alert.

I dont see how the above comment is in anyway not placing blame? TBH i would have thought that was placing blame on the driver. Just my opinion though

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nope. Its not placing blame in the slightest. I'm not one to mince my words and if i thought he was at fault in any way I would have said so already.

I know it is not his fault, it is clearly the manufacturer of the trailer at fault.
 
I really hope they are going to publicise what make and model of trailer it was. I don't have my own transport so I'm not all that familiar with ramp fastenings but I can't believe how many people are saying they've had a ramp fall down/loosen while driving and nothing has ever been done to improve safety. What a disgrace.

Poor poor horse, owner and loaner
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it is clearly the manufacturer of the trailer at fault.

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You cannot be SURE of that. That is why an enquiery is going on. It is very tragic, but why it happened has yet to be ascertained.
Without ALL the facts, nobody can, as yet be blamed or cleared.
 
I can hardly walk past a trailer without going cold. Seeing anybody standing behind one makes my stomach flip.

In 1999 I was walking behind our Ifor Williams 505R when the ramp (all done up) came flying out and hit me on the head. Seems most likely it was the unshod 12.2hh pony gave it one kick and the catches just bent, catapulting the ramp on to me. My horse sat down in panic. My mum was driving (thankfully just coming out slowly through our gate - could so easily have happened on the road) and wasn't aware anything had happened. I was waving at her frantically to get her to stop before my horse panicked even more. Once she stopped (and I sat down with blood pouring down my face) he stood up under the breaching bar and all the metal work bent and hung over them in a twisted mess.

I feel sick just thinking about it.

(Posted earlier in Latest News)
 
Having read a bit of this thread:

1. You don't drive along expecting your horse to fall out of the back of the trailer.
2. Horses (strangely enough) probably have a tendency to panic when the ramp comes down whilst the trailer is in motion.
3. You would be amazed what you can't hear or see. In our case the ramp fell onto a limestoned track. The trailer didn't bounce or lurch and the ramp didn't make much sound at all.
4. Even though we had the breaching bar on the lowest setting, my big 16.2hh ended up with it over his back and could easily have ended up out of the back of the trailer if he had panicked further.
5. Ropes and baling twine do not always hold horses when they panic. Lots of people tie to the side and give plenty of rope (we had them tied to the front, hence my horse didn't end up on top of me). If a horse is tied to the side it could end up out the back and off the ramp very quickly. In any event its headcollar/rope/twine could break.
6. If you're driving through road works there can be a lot of noise and you have to concentrate on where you're going due to hazards.
7. If the ramp was done up properly prior to this incident then the trailer FAILED and no blame can be attributed to anyone other than the trailer manufacturer.

SO - I really object to anyone suggesting this accident could have been averted by the driver or passenger. The trailer failed. Trailers have, it seems, been failing for a very long time. And yet the same catches and fastenings are used. I have called the police as they have requested and I strongly recommend that anyone who has had a similar problem with doors/ramps opening and/or catches unfastening/loosening should also contact them, even if the incident didn't result in accident or injury.
 
Just posted in LN.

I don't know what make the trailer in this incident was but I have heard on more than one occassion of similar incidents occuring with Ifor Williams Hunter boxes.
 
To everyone who seems to take any kind of questions posed as apportioning blame:

I asked if the horse was tied because I was struggling to understand how it happened NOT because I am trying to blame anyone. Jesus is it wrong to have an equiring mind???

And Tricksibell - I think the chances of the horse not feeling pain are slim to none unfortunately! Generally falling out of a moving vehicle onto a road and being hit by a lorry, hurts!
Hehe sorry I couldnt resist! xx
 
It was a horrible acccident but questions DO need to be asked - and answered. I used to transport sheep in an old Rice - and the ramp came down on that (although I'm pretty sure it was my fault - I was in a rush and didn't check the fastenings properly!)

I heard the ramp drop instantly - and managed to stop before ALL the lambs departed. Six trotted off down the road but luckily came to a bucket and none were injured.

I have an IW 511 now and I'm VERY sure the ramp wouldn't come down if properly put up and fastened. The groom's door IS a bit iffy if you don't lock it or make sure it is properly closed. But with bars front and back - even if the ramp DID come down, I doubt if a horse would come out!

People DO travel horses badly - I have had people pick up horses in trailers with the partitions removed (to accommodate a mare & foal) but NO breast or tail bars! This is an accident waiting to happen - even if the ramp stays up! Either a horse will go through the front of the trailed and land on your car if you have a shunt - or a horse will come down the ramp with you underneath it! (I know of one death that occurred this way.)

We need to know more to determine if it WAS a faulty trailer, and whether front/rear bars were properly fixed (and the right height for the horse!) There is no doubt that some trailers in regular use are potential death traps - if it's a manufacturing fault, we need to know. If it was driver error, we need to learn from it!

It was 'fortunate' that it was 'only' a horse that was killed! If it had been a car containing a family that hit the horse, there could have been several dead people as well!
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Really awful for all involved, not a nice end for the poor horse.

I travel mine in an ifor 510 without a partition, meaning there is no bar behind him, but as others have said, I think he could probably go under one anyway if panicked.
I'm a bit of a worrier travelling anyway - he's never been the best in a trailer, and tends to throw himself around a bit, so i spend the whole journey peering through the wingmirror making sure I can see him!
 
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I travel mine in an ifor 510 without a partition, meaning there is no bar behind him, but as others have said, I think he could probably go under one anyway if panicked.
I'm a bit of a worrier travelling anyway -

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So why not get a full width back bar (and front one too if you don't have it already?) He COULD go under it - buit that's not likely - and in the majority of 'incidents' it could save him (and possibly you!)
 
How dreadful for all involved, i cant even start to imagine what there going through.
If they want to know if anybody else has had this problem they should of given details of trailer, before it happens again.
Lets hope the lorry driver following will be able to shed more light on the incident.
 
FWIW the muck trailer ramp that I had come open on me had anti-luce catches fitted.

Here's a picture of the sort of catch, with where the carabiner we now habitually use goes marked on it. It prevents the catch from lifting and undoing.

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I have had the same happen to me, with an ifor williams trailer too, luckily I was going over speed bumps at the time so was very slow, and yes I noticed immediately, I heard the trailer make a funny noise and the towing changed.

And no I had not secured the ramp properly, I had forgotton to put the two pins either side of the ramp in their holders!
 
RIP poor horse, bet the loaner feels absolutely dreadful. Not going to apportion blame, I have years ago had to travel mine in a trailer without a partition so it is quite possible this one didnt have breach bar etc. Regardless of blame, and despite losing my wheels due to ongoing court cause where garage caused damage that caused my lorry accident last month, I still rate lorries and WILL NOT use a trailer anymore.

Used to be a dedicated trailer person, but having had lorry line problems, doors flying open etc, just wont use them anymore, at least with a lorry you feel and hear stuff, you are "one unit"...........trailers are evil, even if you are careful.

I think if you are doing local stuff you can get away with them, but I would NEVER go on a motorway with one again, ever!
 
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RIP poor horse, bet the loaner feels absolutely dreadful. Not going to apportion blame, I have years ago had to travel mine in a trailer without a partition so it is quite possible this one didnt have breach bar etc. Regardless of blame, and despite losing my wheels due to ongoing court cause where garage caused damage that caused my lorry accident last month, I still rate lorries and WILL NOT use a trailer anymore.

Used to be a dedicated trailer person, but having had lorry line problems, doors flying open etc, just wont use them anymore, at least with a lorry you feel and hear stuff, you are "one unit"...........trailers are evil, even if you are careful.

I think if you are doing local stuff you can get away with them, but I would NEVER go on a motorway with one again, ever!

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sorry for your experiences but trailers are not "evil" provided they are serviced and maintained properly they are safe and useful bits of kit. i have an ifor williams, thousands of these trailers are in use, you hear of a few incidents......let's please keep this in proportion, i cannot afford nor justify a lorry, so should i not be allowed to transport my horses then??? i have clocked up many motorway miles in a truck and trailer, i prefer towing on the motorway to be honest, i keep the speed down, alot of towing accidents are due to speed.....and i hope to keep safe but i can't forcast ididotic behaviour by other drivers. I will be having a TUI bar fitted to my trailer, not only will it keep a horse in if the ramp drops accidently but it will act as a roll cage in the event of a turnover.....i have seen some pretty horiffic accidents involving horse lorries in my time FYI so perhaps these are evil too??
 
this awful report reminded me of the time, driving up the M6 and seeing a horsebox driving down the opposite carriageway with its ramp down - sparks everywhere but the driver seemingly unaware.

I tow a 6yr old IW and have one horse who is a terrible traveller - throwing himself around and kicking and bucking in the trailer. Although the breech bar pins have been bent (and replaced) the ramp and outer clips/pins are still totally solid. I trust it 100% and would sooner use my trailer which has an aluminium floor than travel a horse in a vehicle with a wooden floor - how many horses have died horrible deaths from going through a rotten floor?

Lorry or trailer each has its good and bad points - it's down to personal preference really.
 
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