How come New Forest pony youngstock are so cheap?

[Marigold4]

Just wondering this. Other young horse prices seem to have gone through the roof. The cost of a 2 or 3 year old connemara is twice what it used to be. But NF prices seem pretty reasonable still. Unfashionable? Bad reputation? Size - rarely make 14.2? Thoughts anyone?

 

[windand rain]

Size although that is getting better with new breeding practice. The are wonderful if a little stubborn but that is true of any breed each one is different

 

[Carlosmum]

As a general rule, the forest bred youngsters are cheaper than the stud bred. Often the youngsters will be sold straight off the forest and have had little or no handling, compared to the stud bred ponies. This is reflected in the price, if you are comparing sale prices directly with other breeds, don't forget that Foresters are sold at the sales in guineas.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Size is one factor, I think.

I also think they tend to ride (and think) like ponies rather than their Welsh or Connemara counterparts that can often ride like small horses. I've found they don't tend to have the natural 'flair' of their paces of their Welsh cousins - but that could just be the one's I know.

I have a NF (and love the breed) and often ride out with a Welsh and a couple of Connemara's. Mine is certainly the 'ponier' of the lot - in terms of mentality and action - and is more workman like to look at.

 

[Marigold4]

Thanks - useful insights - keep them coming!

 

[scruffyponies]

Costs of production are low, but what keeps the price low is mainly that people are prepared to pay more for Connies, because they're more fashionable.
Personally I'd rather have a NF. They have better feet.
Also, don't discount the small ones. They are generally superb.

 

[ihatework]

A much undervalued breed IMO.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I've only had one NF and he was an exceptional teenager's pony- he was sharp and strong, but he could turn on a sixpence, he was SO fast, and he'd jump the moon (not with me I hasten to add- I've always been a total wuss about jumping!)

But at 13hh he wouldn't have suited many adults. And he wouldn't have been any good even for a fearless kid because he was just so strong.

I think they do seem to have a reputation for being sharp (although surely no more so than a welshie or a modern Connie?!) I think they're lovely looking, but they don't seem that popular for showing, which seems to be a much bigger thing these days than it was 20 years ago (I guess because everyone seems to have access to transport nowadays)

 

[honetpot]

I had a forest bred NF, but I have worked with and owned few Connemara's and as much as I love a Connie, I think NF are my favourite. Connie's have become more like small sports horses, and not a beginners pony, with a large price ticket. You have to ride a NF, but they seem to be less tricky, very clever at getting out of trouble and although most are not huge, they are compact power houses and really tough. NF prices are better than they used to be, reducing the forest breeding season has controlled the very early and late foals.
I think a lot of it is because NF were relatively common, and you have to import Connemara's they had a certain cache, but in reality they breed huge amounts.

 

[be positive]

I have had many through my hands, I don't think any were particularly sharp but they are bright, none were strong, most were ridden by children and all jumped exceptionally well, one unregistered pony was sold on as a schoolmaster aged just 5 he took his nervous jockey round the PC champs several years in a row being the smallest, at 13 hands, to go DC at 90 one year, he was sold on for a substantial price.

I think they are often overlooked in part because they are not promoted in the way Connies are and breeders are, quite rightly in my view, discouraged from breeding overheight ponies.

 

[P.forpony]

I think the description of workmanlike hits the nail on the head.
Lots of cracking NF out there but put them next to a connie and people just like the look of them better.

A NF is a proper pony but a fit connie, even the traditional type tends to look and feel more like a small sports horse. Which ticks some peoples boxes

I’ve had both and don’t shoot me....but the connie wins for me.

 

[Marigold4]

All very interesting. Thank you for your responses. I have only known two - and that was years ago - but they were both exceptionally greedy, snatching grass wherever and whenever possible. Do you think that is typical? Do they need testing for PSSM? Prone to laminitis? Or no more so than other breeds? Thinking of going to look at one, so trying to arm myself with the facts!

 

[Wishfilly]

Are you definitely comparing like with like? I agree that connies do have premium price but also a lot of 3yo connies have a lot done with them (especially in Ireland) even if they are not backed. Whereas I think New Forests tend to have done less (even if they are from a stud)?

I'm sure there are exceptions to this!

I also think that height is a factor- something that has the potential to mature to 15hh will have more value?

But at any age I think you pay at leas £1000 more for a Connemara because they are so popular!

 

[be positive]

All very interesting. Thank you for your responses. I have only known two - and that was years ago - but they were both exceptionally greedy, snatching grass wherever and whenever possible. Do you think that is typical? Do they need testing for PSSM? Prone to laminitis? Or no more so than other breeds? Thinking of going to look at one, so trying to arm myself with the facts!

Mine were greedy but not rude in hand or ridden, one was laminitic but none of the others were hard to keep slim and fit, there was PSSM in the breed but it has been actively tested for to find the lines with it and any stallions carrying it were gelded, mares should also be out of the breeding programme, it should not occur in anything bred in the past few years.

 

[windand rain]

Youngstock shouldnt have or carry PSSM so one box ticked due to changes in the breeding policy, The only ones I have had anything to do with were thugs but that had more to do with the start they had as foals both didnt get the best of handling

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

Have PM'd you

 

[Littlewills]

I would buy one solely on the basis that they have been so responsible breeding wise. They have eradicated PSSM type 1 in 1 generation. Having gotten 1 with pssm I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I had a forest bred NF, but I have worked with and owned few Connemara's and as much as I love a Connie, I think NF are my favourite. Connie's have become more like small sports horses, and not a beginners pony, with a large price ticket. You have to ride a NF, but they seem to be less tricky, very clever at getting out of trouble and although most are not huge, they are compact power houses and really tough. NF prices are better than they used to be, reducing the forest breeding season has controlled the very early and late foals.
I think a lot of it is because NF were relatively common, and you have to import Connemara's they had a certain cache, but in reality they breed huge amounts.

Yes to all of that.

My boy is very kind with a bit of a sense of humour. He's not tricky (could be sharp when diet wasn't right - but so could any other horse) but you do have to ride every line or every transition with him otherwise you just won't get whatever you were asking. There's no real dramatics about it but if you're not 100% straight in your approach to the jump then you'll probably just go past the jump or if you take your eye off the centre line you're riding, you'll wobble. But ride him 'properly' and he'll go no questions asked.

He's fantastic over any terrain - he's forest born and is slightly tentative/spooky with different coloured patches of mud, but when you consider they have quick sand/mud you can only tell by colour, well, that's just clever He really is as tough as old boots, is happily barefoot, hacks miles a week on a handful of feed and despite being partially clipped and living out 24/7 he barely see's a rug in winter.

He's turns his little hooves to pretty much most things. He jumps, dabbles in dressage, hacks for miles alone and in company, he'll go first, last or inbetween. He'll quite happily canter through a field one day and walk (ok, so possibly jog a little) the next. He's taken part in Trec, polework clinics, jumping clinics. He'll never be a world beater and there are more talented, with bigger movement ponies/small horses out there for sure but he's great fun & never boring.

Completely agree with the size comment - I'm 5'6-5-7 and he's 13.2/13.hh but I've never felt under powered.

All very interesting. Thank you for your responses. I have only known two - and that was years ago - but they were both exceptionally greedy, snatching grass wherever and whenever possible. Do you think that is typical? Do they need testing for PSSM? Prone to laminitis? Or no more so than other breeds? Thinking of going to look at one, so trying to arm myself with the facts!

Mine is food orientated and does have the odd snack out hacking if I'm not concentrating, but he's easy to stop from doing it. He can be greedy and has learnt to untie himself when all backs are turned and has been found trying to undo the food room door on occasion

I don't think they are anymore prone to laminitis than any other native ponies (he had it once mildly a number of years ago when he just wasn't in enough work and had access to too much grazing), but do be aware that if you've not had a native before, they literally live on fresh air and it can be hard work. I have had a bit of trouble finding a suitable yard with suitable grazing/turn out but I'd have had that problem if I'd bought a Welsh or Fell or a good doer cob! It's a native problem, not a New Forest Pony problem so to speak.

Buying mine, has hands down been the best decision I've ever made and I'm a total convert to the breed.

 

[honetpot]

Are you definitely comparing like with like? I agree that connies do have premium price but also a lot of 3yo connies have a lot done with them (especially in Ireland) even if they are not backed. Whereas I think New Forests tend to have done less (even if they are from a stud)?

I'm sure there are exceptions to this!

I also think that height is a factor- something that has the potential to mature to 15hh will have more value?

But at any age I think you pay at leas £1000 more for a Connemara because they are so popular!

I do not think that is true. I have three Irish bred Connemara's they breed a lot and a lot go through the sales as foals. One I bought was brought over in a group of three foals, by the time I got her I was her third home since a foal, she was two, and I had a year of getting her to trust me. These were not backyard breeders, and she was a fairly expensive price in the sale. They can be treated like cattle, and let's put mildly, the Irish bred ones can be very wary. There are tax and VAT breaks if breeding, farmers see it as another income stream.
English stud bred and they are just not breeding foals in huge amounts, so of course they do get more handling and do the Highlands. For English breeders it is more a labour of love than a money making enterprise. My English bred Connie, I worked had worked on the stud, they only had a max of three foals a year.
Being bred on the forest doesn't mean they are wild, they have seen people and traffic, and depending on the commoner the dam may have be checked and fed.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-forest-women-following-ancient-tradition-aoe

 

[scruffyponies]

It's not the case that all forest bred foals get little handling. Some owners go to great lengths to make sure that when their babies get to the sales they sell for a bit more and to riding homes (rather than the meat man) by making sure they are gentle, pick feet up etc.
<<<< Many are also just really friendly by nature - I have difficulty stopping him getting in the car with me.

 

[J&S]

As a past NF owner I would recommend buying one any day! If they are cheaper then just consider it a bargain! Mine was from a breeder and I owned her for 25 years from 4 - 29 and loved every minute of that time. She was a classy 14.1 1/2hh dark bay mare of good quality and could jump like a stag, gallop like a good 'un and was never sick or sorry. Obviously some lines are better than others, if you know the breed name of the pony you are going to see you can get in touch with the NF Pony and Cattle Breeding Society and ask for history on that line. (or contact Peregrine Falcon on this forum.) Size is not a problem, they will carry men, they are no greedier than any other pony and generally cheap to keep, fresh air and brambles is their diet, we used to say!!

 

[Marigold4]

Mine were greedy but not rude in hand or ridden, one was laminitic but none of the others were hard to keep slim and fit, there was PSSM in the breed but it has been actively tested for to find the lines with it and any stallions carrying it were gelded, mares should also be out of the breeding programme, it should not occur in anything bred in the past few years.

Is this the case, Even if the stallion used is not young?

 

[windand rain]

Yes any carriers were gelded and stock could not be registered

 

[fredflop]

If I wanted a youngster I’d have no qualms in buying one

 

[millikins]

I think their time will come. Connies have been bred as performance ponies for generations, I think the NF breeders are beginning to catch up. I also think Connies are in danger of killing the golden goose, there are an awful lot of overpriced, stuffy animals on the market now but they sell because they are fashionable.

 

[Marigold4]

I think their time will come. Connies have been bred as performance ponies for generations, I think the NF breeders are beginning to catch up. I also think Connies are in danger of killing the golden goose, there are an awful lot of overpriced, stuffy animals on the market now but they sell because they are fashionable.

I absolutely agree with you. I think the overheight ones are not doing the breed any favours. And every second horse seems to be a connie now. Something's got to give.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

NF turn their hooves to anything. They can match & beat horses at dressage, compete at grassroots at Badminton, SJ at HOYS, etc.......

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I think people are right re size. So many people put 15hh and above in wanted ads/search criteria.

 

[J&S]

I was often asked if i would rather have a horse than my NF and my reply always was that if I had the equivalent power of the pony in a horse i would not know what to do with it!

 

[Wishfilly]

I do not think that is true. I have three Irish bred Connemara's they breed a lot and a lot go through the sales as foals. One I bought was brought over in a group of three foals, by the time I got her I was her third home since a foal, she was two, and I had a year of getting her to trust me. These were not backyard breeders, and she was a fairly expensive price in the sale. They can be treated like cattle, and let's put mildly, the Irish bred ones can be very wary. There are tax and VAT breaks if breeding, farmers see it as another income stream.
English stud bred and they are just not breeding foals in huge amounts, so of course they do get more handling and do the Highlands. For English breeders it is more a labour of love than a money making enterprise. My English bred Connie, I worked had worked on the stud, they only had a max of three foals a year.
Being bred on the forest doesn't mean they are wild, they have seen people and traffic, and depending on the commoner the dam may have be checked and fed.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-forest-women-following-ancient-tradition-aoe

On Facebook at the moment, I am seeing a lot of 2/3yo Connies who have done a lot (or what I would consider a lot)- I guess that's what I'm basing this on. But maybe it's an exception this year because they are trying to sell whilst prices are so high?

I'm not saying that the New Forests don't get much handling- just that the 2/3yos I am seeing seem to have done what I would consider a lot for their age (potentially in a short space of time). I'm not saying that's a good thing- I don't really see it as a positive, but I guess it would add value for most people.