How disgusting - another reason to stop bullfighting

[Flicker]

Words fail me... I know I say that a lot on this forum when it comes to the actions of man against our furry friends, but this takes the cake for me, I think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7721823.stm

 

[AmyMay]

I don't know what to say............

 

[woolly]

To be honest this has little to do with bullfighting in my opinion. This is the alleged action of someone against a rival and could be just as applicable to any sport were there was competition and therefore a rival, it just happens to be bullfighting in this case. Either way it is a disgusting allegation and if found guilty I hope they get a hell of a lot longer than 3 years!

 

[Silverspring]

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest this has little to do with bullfighting in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just thinking that, I'm not pro bullfighting but these men could have been in any of the horse competition spheres and still chosen to do what they did. Many a racehorse has died at the hands of a rival owner/trainer, it's not a reason to stop racing.

 

[Flicker]

Point definitely taken on the bullfighting opinions. I just struggle to find any positive aspects of the sport and this is just one more horrible chapter...

 

[lucretia]

agree with wooley and flicker i think that the way the horses are trained and cared for by the best matadors is a marvel. whether you agree or not with the sport if its a positive aspect you want to find then that is one and why i am loathe to damn the true matadors because in their culture what they are doing is a highly skilled art.
i posted a link on here once to the most beautiful horse and rider partnership i have ever seen in any discipline, and a great many of those who commented agreed with my opinion of said horse while entirely condemming the location.
search for Merlin, horse on you tube if you want to see what i mean.

 

[PapaFrita]

Horrific. However, the connection with bullfighting is incidental and it's irrelevant to use this incident as an argument against bullfighting.

 

[the watcher]

I remember the Merlin post - my OH who is not in the least horsey was so amazed he took the link to show to colleagues at work and my son has it saved on his iPod.

No matter what your views on bullfighting - it is quite seperate from what was done here. There are evil deeds in all manner of sports - wasn't there something at quite high level in US Ice skating a few years back?

 

[Flicker]

Definitely see your point of view and I don't disagree that this specific act cannot be linked to the sport. However, a sport that has as its goal the violent destruction of another life is going to attract individuals who are capable of performing the atrocities reported above. I just wonder when as a society we are going to stop finding killing for the sake of it an acceptable form of entertainment.

 

[the watcher]

That is a whole different debate I think. Most of the violent sporting supporters and hangers on I have ever encountered have been football supporters, whereas bullfighting tends to be a family event (make of that what you like)

 

[lucretia]

well said mother hen's turkey dinner!! and though will expect a flurry of abuse here is the link for Merlin, quite the most beautiful horse and rider. i am making no comment about the locale. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HgG_Gwy7Ysg

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
However, a sport that has as its goal the violent destruction of another life is going to attract individuals who are capable of performing the atrocities reported above.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's an absurd argument. What about fox hunting? You don't get rival hunts torching each other's animals. What bloodsport are you going to blame for all the other acts of cruelty towards animals that take place every day?
I also happen to agree with Mother Hen (Turkey_Dinner) about football.

 

[Flicker]

Sorry, not a big fan of foxhunting either, for the same reason.
(Flicker sees herself getting ejected from HHO...)

 

[PapaFrita]

You are, of course, entitled NOT to be a fan of any sport you choose, but your argument that bloodsports attract the sort of people who would commit such horrendous acts of cruelty are totally without basis.

 

[Silverspring]

[ QUOTE ]
well said mother hen's turkey dinner!! and though will expect a flurry of abuse here is the link for Merlin, quite the most beautiful horse and rider. i am making no comment about the locale. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HgG_Gwy7Ysg

[/ QUOTE ]

Dear lord that horse can move! I don't think I've ever seen anything like it!

I don't really think fox hunting and bull fighting can be compared, fox hunting has a purpose of keeping vermon under control, it also happens to be a pass time people enjoy. The fox would naturally be chased by wolves so it is not a wholey unatural death for the fox.

Bull fighting is just for entertainment and nothing else, for this reason I don't agree with it.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
The fox would naturally be chased by wolves so it is not a wholey unatural death for the fox.


[/ QUOTE ]
Wolves? In the UK? And why would a wolf chase a fox? (this is a genuine question, BTW)

 

[cruiseline]

I love that video of Merlin, he is an amazing horse and so well trained.

I really don't think you can blame bull fighting for an arson attack on a horse box in a petrol station. Sounds more cartel to me.

I have no problem with fox hunting, fishing, bullfighting or indeed falconry (my in laws own many falcons).

Do those who eat fish or meat, really know how that animal was treated before it ended up on your plate, turkey, duck, rabbit, lamb, veal etc.

What I don't like is hypocrites, they eat the products, but chose to turn a blind eye to where or how. So please get real.

 

[a1b2c3]

The Merlin video.... Wow!

 

[lucretia]

i am afraid that when ever the subject of bull fighting comes up i think of that horse, you cannot entirely condemm something that produces something so fantastic

 

[Fantasy_World]

Very sad about the horses and one can only hope that their deaths were quick. A luxury one might add though is not afforded to the bulls used in this atrocious sport.
Whilst the horsemanship skills of rider and the athleticism of the horses may be a joy to watch, it would be much kinder on the eye if it did not involve the torture of a bull.
Having just watched the Merlin video I was very impressed by the riding skills of the rider and the horse is an absolute star, especially when it manoeuvres around to avoid the bull's horns.
I do hope that those responsible for the fire and the deaths of those horses are dealt with severely.
However I will never condone bullfighting as a sport as I simply find it too cruel!

 

[Kenzo]

I watched the Merlin video, but unfortunately I was too distracted by what was going on to appreciate the beautiful horse and its movement.

It did not overly suprise me about what happened to these poor horses, if they can torment and stab bulls for fun then I doubt they would think much of hiring a hitman to set fire to a dozen horses belonging to his rival.

Very sad indeed, I really hope nobody else would ever do the same in the future, I know its a tradition over there but that is a terrible terrible thing to do.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]

It did not overly suprise me about what happened to these poor horses, if they can torment and stab bulls for fun then I doubt they would think much of hiring a hitman to set fire to a dozen horses belonging to his rival.

[/ QUOTE ]
I find that comment incredibly offensive and I'm not even a supporter of bullfighting. Of all the horrendous acts against animals that people have mentioned on this forum, and those on fuglyhorseoftheday (as just 2 examples), this is the FIRST time that one has been linked in any way to bullfighting. I think it is totally out of order for anyone to make such a sweeping statement.

 

[lucretia]

slightly agree with the Pink One here. apart from anything else, bullfighting is considered an art i believe at its highest levels and has an ancient code of honour which means that those practising it are not just sportsmen equivqlent but role models who would condemn this atricocity far maore than we in this part of europe and futher more are likely to put their thoughts into deeds and ostracise (at the very least) those found to be guilty.
i believe that is is the belief of men such as the one in the video clip that to die in the ring is a noble death for either themselves or the animals they work with. that horse clearly loves its job anyway. One needs to look at the bigger picture and not be entirely misled by the films shown on you tube of the lower end of this activity wose behaviour is often at the very least disgusting.
on the great scheme of things, for example, there is no legislation in the USA regarding the transport of horses so there have been some terrible terrible cruelties in a supposed enlightened continent.
people who do what those men did have nothing to do with any sort of decent feeling and nothing in common with those who practise bullfighting in its pure form.

 

[PapaFrita]

Not only that, what about all those PETA supporters and ALF people who feel justified in harrassing, threatening and sometimes murdering scientists who use animals in experiments. I think there is a double standard somewhere.

 

[lucretia]

or the anti hunting lobby that used to wire fences and leave things on the landing side of hedges to make the horses fall?

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]

No matter what your views on bullfighting - it is quite seperate from what was done here. There are evil deeds in all manner of sports - wasn't there something at quite high level in US Ice skating a few years back?

[/ QUOTE ]

In 1994 Tonya Harding's husband hired a hitman to hit Nancy Kerrigan in the knee. Now you can't call figure skating a blood sport and that has attracted people with a strong will to win, with no morals at any cost.

 

[PapaFrita]

Quite

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I watched the Merlin video, but unfortunately I was too distracted by what was going on to appreciate the beautiful horse and its movement.


[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be serious surely?? That horse and rider are poetry in motion; how could you possibly not appreciate it?

Anyhow, I have no problems with bull fighting; yes when I was young and didn't understand it, I had a bit of an issue with it, but now I am older and I DO understand it, I no longer have any issues; particularly as the sport has been cleaned up a lot since the 80's when it was a little bit naughty and biased.

The incident highlighted in the OP has nothing to do with bull fighting - it is criminal, end of ...

 

[Kenzo]

Hang on a minute, I did not mean to offend anyone and I know the subject was not a debate about bull fighting.

But how can you mad at me its just my opinion like everyone body else has one, I don't quote other peoples opinions and be upset and offended at them for what they say or believe in, should I have to feel like a need to apologise because I cant watch a piece of video footage where yes the horse is truly talented but at the same time with something else going on that I don't agree with?

Of course I don't think that these men that bullfight have the same cruel mentality of those who did that to those horses but because it not something I believe in anyway that was my first thought on the matter.
I didn't think 'oh well that's the kind of thing they do over there so I'm not suppressed or bothered kinda thing' perhaps my choice of words were not used correctly, despite my believes, I'm agree with everyone else it was a horrific thing to do.

 

[PapaFrita]

You are entitled to your opinion, AND to voice it, just as I am to mine. This was the comment that made me cross:

"If they can torment and stab bulls for fun then I doubt they would think much of hiring a hitman to set fire to a dozen horses belonging to his rival."

It seems to be me that you ARE making a connection between bullfighting and acts of criminal violence and shocking cruelty. I and others were pointing out that there are people who claim to be animal lovers to are JUST as violent, JUST as criminal and JUST as cruel to humans as well as animals and we hear far more of them than any bullfighters or fans of the sport.