How do I stop my horse pulling and napping on the long rein/lunge?

[Hazel02]

I have a pony who despite being little can be very headstrong and when he doesn’t want to do something he is very quick in telling you this by quite literally locking his head and pulling you wherever he wants to go. This initially started on the lunge in a head collar which is understandable however he does this with a bit aswell in even if I pull back on one line (if on the long rein) or put all my weight into my heels he will quite literally take me skiing.
I have backed and broken several ponies/horses but none have been quite as strong as this little guy and I’m struggling to know what to do as I know I need to correct this behaviour however he pulls me off my feet so I don’t feel I can be quick enough to correct it.
Any advice appreciated as I’m currently being advised to “stick a strong bit in his mouth” which I’m not so keen on doing since he is still only learning

* he is just beginning his education and is in a full cheek snaffle *

 

[Abacus]

Assuming you don’t have access to a round pen could you create a small confined area within the school? Using jumps or electric tape?

 

[Hazel02]

Assuming you don’t have access to a round pen could you create a small confined area within the school? Using jumps or electric tape?

Unfortunately not. I do have a small barn/arena area where I lunge but even in there he will sometimes throw his head up and pull to the gate or bottom end of the barn and it is a very small barn, only slightly bigger than a round pen I’d say

 

[sassandbells]

is he still learning to lunge / long rein? If he is, is it possible to have someone at his head with a lead rope to prevent him pulling you where he wants to go / correct when he tries, until he understands what’s being asked of him a bit better? We do that with all our youngsters and the person at the head just gradually gets further and further away over a few sessions until they’re not needed anymore, but might be a bit trickier as you’re having to undo an issue rather than starting from the beginning.

Also, are you doing this in a school / surfaced area or out and about where he’s trying to go for grass? We only have a field to work in and early days my mare would do the same to eat grass, I now just give her a token feed before hand along with hay while getting ready so she’s not hungry and just thinking about food… but this might not be your issue

Are there any particular triggers for him deciding he doesn’t want to do it anymore?

 

[maya2008]

Use a bridle not a headcollar. At this point he does NOT need to learn he is stronger than you are. If he’s still able to pull you in a snaffle then you need someone stronger than you are to do the initial work. How big is he? I have been towed by 11.2hh and 12hh ponies in the initial stages if they were not so tame (usually while teaching them to lead!), but never in a bridle. Even if our 12hh chap tries to leave at speed out hacking, when I am on another horse, I can still hold him.

My advice would be - switch to a bridle for all handling. Then ensure you make him forget he can tow you by doing lots of leading out in-hand, letting him try to go and showing him he can’t. Then resume long-reining but the method where you walk next to them with one rein over the wither rather than behind, and then move on to lunging. If this pony is small he will need to be perfect on the ground to be safe around children.

Do all work in an enclosed space so if he really goes and you have to let go, you can just do so and catch him again afterwards. Then carry on as if nothing happened. Calmly continue until he has got the idea for the day and you have achieved what you set out to do.

 

[sbloom]

Sounds like it's more about connection and relationship, all horses are too strong if we only have "control" as an option. I'm not an expert, far from it as just a saddle fitter without my own horses these days, but there are a lot more "horsemanship" coaches out there looking at these issues, not quite the behavioural coaches of old, but there's some great stuff on FB (Mills Consilient Horsemanship, Amy Skinner Horsemanship both in the US, Lockie Phillips in Spain, Helen Sharp, Louise stobbs and probably loads others in the UK) and some have paid courses on Patreon or their own platform. I don't see Michael Peace and the behavioural consultants in quite the same light, they are great at fixing problems and can be transformative in some ways, but I think it better to spend the time to learn a different way of relating to the horse on a fundamental basis.

How do you approach him? Do you spend time with him just connecting or do you always go to him with something he needs to do? Does he have signs of anxiety/pain? Do you think he feels truly safe? A different but more horse centred way of looking at it.

 

[Red-1]

I think a lot of it is about being quick enough to have them unable to get straight and go for it. I would use a bot, lunge rein over the top of the head and through the nearest ring, but I would also have someone come and give a fresh pair of eyes on how he is 'winning' when he wants to go somewhere.

I would imagine it would include a fair bit of yielding of quarters/shoulders and reversing.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Is he reaching the end of his attention span?

Do you get good work for a short period and then it gets difficult or is it difficult from the start?

 

[Polos Mum]

Can you lunge with 2 reins - one attached to each bit ring?
I wouldn't lunge in headcollar any more - every time he gets away he learns that he can ignore you and do what he wants
Definitely go back to basics and if you can have someone walk around at his head - not necessarily leading him but able to step in if needed. If you don't have sensible help then the less experienced person could lunge with you at his head.

Small circles should stop him barging off. Usually once they discover that they can't actually just wonder off whenever they feel like it - they give up trying pretty quickly - but that will probably depend on how many times he'd got away with it in the past !

 

[littleshetland]

Perhaps you could get someone to walk by his head with a lead rope attached via the bit also. Aim for a few steps, halt, then reward him with treats, a few steps more...same again. Gradually increase the amount of steps you take. You walk into the circle and do the rewarding while your helper stands quietly. Bribery sounds like your best option for the moment. Keep sessions short and try to end on a good positive note each time. Even if he just moves a few steps in a positive way, thats a good start. Good luck.

 

[eggs]

I do the same as Red-1 - lunge line clipped to the bit ring on the outside of the circle, line over the top of the head and then through the bit ring on the inside of the circle. Also watch his ears - they tend to 'look' in the direction they are about to bog off. You need to be quick enough to spot this and so be able to take evasive action. One of my youngsters was quite naughty about this when being long lined as he learned he could whip around a post or other object but his ears would always flick towards it just before he did it so I could turn him in the opposite direction which rather spoilt his fun.

 

[sbloom]

Naughty horses? Not aimed at the OP particularly, but commenting on the comments

https://www.facebook.com/AmySkinnerHorsemanship/posts/pfbid02fjvHEuwmWBaybyczTLkfyqggqe5w2XRt7YyVXDqFJM48oL1uuLoKJ419hPRU8bWul

 

[Hazel02]

Perhaps you could get someone to walk by his head with a lead rope attached via the bit also. Aim for a few steps, halt, then reward him with treats, a few steps more...same again. Gradually increase the amount of steps you take. You walk into the circle and do the rewarding while your helper stands quietly. Bribery sounds like your best option for the moment. Keep sessions short and try to end on a good positive note each time. Even if he just moves a few steps in a positive way, thats a good start. Good luck.

The problem is he’s more than capable and we can 15 minute lunge session that is great or a hack on the long rein where he is great but then there can be a total switch where he drags me from the get go or he decides he wants to throw his head up/rear up on the long rein and pull me around. I tried to long rein him into the barn last week and instead he napped twice by throwing his head up and jumping forward, I managed to put all my weight into the left rein and the first time it caused him to turn in and round but the second time (and a third time) I did the exact same pulling on the left rein to turn him but because he was expecting it he didn’t hesitate to just pull me right back and run forward successfully getting away from me twice which is then a worry in itself as I’ve gone from hacking him out across a road and in open spaces to now being unable to trust that he isn’t going to do this anytime he decides he doesn’t want to do something or stand still as he can also be stroppy when asked to stand!

 

[Alibear]

Get up, get light on your feet and move with him so he can't get enough angle to drag you; keep your position relative to his. Also, keep sending him forwards. As others have mentioned, get a good horsemanship trainer out; they'll probably be able to help you quite quickly. The trick is to move so you can continue to keep asking for what you want.

 

[Hazel02]

Get up, get light on your feet and move with him so he can't get enough angle to drag you; keep your position relative to his. Also, keep sending him forwards. As others have mentioned, get a good horsemanship trainer out; they'll probably be able to help you quite quickly. The trick is to move so you can continue to keep asking for what you want.

This is exactly what I do however when he buggers off on the lunge (with the two long reins) I try get behind him so as to quickly correct and keep moving him forward however he will bigger off then turn in which causes the reins tangle if I’m not quick and I have tried to keep moving quickly towards his backend so I can stay behind and keep my two reins where they should be but he’s just as quick and turns his head towards me sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t but I do try as soon as he starts to pull to try and keep behind him before he gets ‘ahead’ of me and then I need to start from square one if that makes sense. I try my best to just carry on as if it hasn’t happened but his go to move seems to be either bugger off and run/drag me or bugger off and then turn in to me, neither of them are ideal of course but I need a way to make him continue working without there being the stop start that comes with both options!

 

[Kaylum]

Have you checked his teeth and mouth?

 

[Hazel02]

Have you checked his teeth and mouth?

Yes, had teeth checked before work was started, all fine and had a general check over by the vet too with nothing jumping out as unusual as I was kind of giving him benefit of the doubt but has been given the all clear with mouth and overall so running out of excuses for him and options for me

 

[smolmaus]

I think I'm with sbloom (and others) on this, there is a "why" here that you haven't seen. He is capable until he isn't, maybe its brain fatigue, maybe its trigger stacking, maybe it's something else or several things but if he's already learning that he can out-muscle you that's a scary place to be and I think looking for why rather than "how to fix" might be more useful at this point.

 

[maya2008]

How old is he? If only 3, or if he is a very immature 4, I would stick to 10min at a time. Attention span can be very short in young geldings. It’s better once you are out and about hacking.

 

[Hazel02]

I think I'm with sbloom (and others) on this, there is a "why" here that you haven't seen. He is capable until he isn't, maybe its brain fatigue, maybe its trigger stacking, maybe it's something else or several things but if he's already learning that he can out-muscle you that's a scary place to be and I think looking for why rather than "how to fix" might be more useful at this point.

For sure! Thing is that sometimes he can be great and sometimes (like last week) it can be from the get go. I know there has to be a reason and that’s what I have been trying to explore but I’m just getting the all clear from everyone atm. I haven’t had his back checked in all fairness but because he’s only doing groundwork I really didn’t think it would be that as it’s both with a saddle/roller or without, with a bridle or without etc so I am unsure at this point!

 

[Hazel02]

How old is he? If only 3, or if he is a very immature 4, I would stick to 10min at a time. Attention span can be very short in young geldings. It’s better once you are out and about hacking.

He is estimated to be 6/7 but had zero handling before coming to me so he is a late starter and for that reason I give him benefit of the doubt that I am asking a lot compared to how he’s been used to living his life and of course he will have objections

 

[sbloom]

For sure! Thing is that sometimes he can be great and sometimes (like last week) it can be from the get go. I know there has to be a reason and that’s what I have been trying to explore but I’m just getting the all clear from everyone atm. I haven’t had his back checked in all fairness but because he’s only doing groundwork I really didn’t think it would be that as it’s both with a saddle/roller or without, with a bridle or without etc so I am unsure at this point!

Foals are born asymmetrical. Some are born quite damaged, with broken ribs or other issues. Horses are able to "fix" these issues by compensating, and foal do that within 3 days. These compensatory movement patterns are okay in the wild - horse just have to be able to run fast and react quickly, and poor self carriage doesn't harm that. However we expect to lead them from the right for 3 years, not do bodywork, have them live for a least part of that in artificial environments that affect their bodies (eg haynets, other one sided habits etc) and then for them to be well placed to start doing circles and then either soon or not so soon afterwards to carry us. This horse has had 6-7 years of that.

Bodywork, groundwork for posture, and connection work. I shared this this morning, it's about forwards in the ridden trot but it's the same lesson:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=188663900722952

If your horse isn't reasonably straight and functioning well it has a direct link to behaviour, with the horse not feeling safe. You need to correct the body to access the mind well, and vice versa.

 

[Gloi]

If you are long reining I wouldn't put the reins through anything to make it easier to pull him onto a lunge circle when he's messing about. Keep the lines quite short - just out of range of his feet until he's behaving better. Don't use lunge reins, get something like plough lines of a shorter length so you don't get tangled.

 

[TPO]

Learning isn't linear so he won't continue to progress is a straight line. There will be backwards steps.

Don't get behind him as you've described. You want to be put to a side beyond his quarters and getting him to turn.

I also don't agree with the advice to use a bridle and clip onto the bit. That's how you ruin a mouth; using a bit as leverage so they yield to the pain/discomfort.

Right back to basics in a rope Halter teaching pressure and release properly.

I'd also get a vet to check teeth if you've used an edt. I'm in the midst of dental nightmare having used an EDT diligently for years. Sadly they've continued to miss a serious issue that I attribute to EDTs not being able tonsedate to properly inspect a mouth.

I think you need to invest money in an experienced trainer as advised above.

 

[Landcruiser]

I'd get him lunging well before you start long reining. He can't pull you around if you stay at right angles to him, or slightly behind. I always start them off in a rope halter, which they are less inclined to lean on, and give you far more control. Pin the line to your hip and brace if he goes for it, and keep him moving round you, not away from you, by moving your own feet to stay in the driving position. I move on to a Dually prior to long reining, lunging off the nose ring which again makes it hard for them to lean or pull away.
Then for long reining, Dually every time.