How do professional riders earn a living?!

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Olliepop

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Musing post really. Took my boy out locally for CR jumping last night - £15/ horse for 2 rounds and the venue is top notch. Met a lovely lady there who was a pro rider and she said she'd had 5 there in the morning and come back with another 4 at night!! Got me thinking about how they afford to do all of this. I felt bad enough spending £15 to go with one. Then got me thinking 9 * shoes, 9 * teeth, 9 * vaccinations etc etc. I guess they must make a living or they wouldn't do it but I guess it must be difficult.
 
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She was probably riding for owners - horses could have been on schooling or competition livery which means that the owners would pay entry fees etc.
 
Ditto wheels. Riding for owners, selling horses for thousands to fund the next crop of youngstock .
Lessons , clinics being sponsored .
I wouldn't worry too much I've never met a poor SJer.
 
Owners! Generally there's 1 set weekly amount for the horse being there which covers shoes, feed, hay, livery, etc. Then the owner pays entry fees too.
 
And rider fees as well sometimes..
One of the pros I know acts as an agent for people looking to buy.

Sponsors will sometimes help with entry fees or accommodation.
 
In that case I would assume most/all were not hers so bills paid by their owners.

And a large number of pros are not fully self supporting. They have a parent or spouse who supports them and/or works for the business effectively for free. (Did anyone notice the Scott Brash article where his father bought him horses and his sister does the work at home. . .) so most income gets ploughed back into the business and competition costs may even be covered from outside the business. Most of the people I know who are self supporting have another source of income to run alongside, at least when they start. They also struggle to run their own horses although a good owner can really help in that area.

I suspect most of the rich showjumpers you're meeting aren't rich from showjumping. I do know a few but they are high ranking international riders, haven't always been so well rewarded, and aren't often seen taking 9 to evening clear rounds.

A good sale or two can definitely pad the bank account, especially if investment is low. I have a friend who regularly sells a couple a year for 100k. She figures about 60k investment, though. . .
 
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Silly question but why are people owners and essentially foot all the costs without the fun side of riding themselves (and without the hard work of looking after them I suppose)? What sort of things do they get out of it? It's a whole new world for me. I do know the one she was riding was hers and she paid £1 for it.
 
Olliepop said:
Silly question but why are people owners and essentially foot all the costs without the fun side of riding themselves (and without the hard work of looking after them I suppose)? What sort of things do they get out of it? It's a whole new world for me. I do know the one she was riding was hers and she paid £1 for it.
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Because if you know you will never ride round Badminton yourself but would love to be part of it, or that you have a lovely talented horse that you are happy piddling about on but you know can jump 1.60 in the right hands, or have a talented horse that is too much for you yourself, or you are more interested in breeding a great horse (and possibly breeding from this horse in the future) and in either scenario have the money to do so, then why not?

Without owners, the whole thing falls apart. Few people at top level are riding their own - some do, but most top horses are at least partly owned by other people to help fund the competition! If you have the money, who wouldn't want to own a Valegro, even if you couldn't ride him yourself for Toffee?

A few owners I work for ride their horses at low levels and love the horse to bits, but know the horse can compete much higher levels and so hire a rider to compete them at those higher levels they can't themselves.
 
SJ is different to DR and Eventing - you need a string of horses to be successful. Owner of my loan horse tried to be a pro SJ for a year with 1 horse and it was impossible, she quickly realised if you were going to make the effort of attending a show you needed to be in almost every class that day (even sometimes 2 horses per class) to ensure you get a good crack of the prize money.

Prize money in SJ is much better than other disciplines, for example local venue to me is running a 4 day affiliated SJ show and 3 of the 4 days are 'elite' but even to be elite you dont need to be olympic standard. Prize money for the grand prix class is normally around £1500 (to the winner alone - not including lower placings). In dressage you are lucky to get your entry fee back! Eventing prize money is good but only top level, and even then you have so many different sets of tack to buy and maintain, have to keep horse ridiculously fit, different trainers for different disciplines....the list goes on. SJ you just have one set of tack, one set of clothes, turn up and as long as you dont knock any poles down and go quick enough you are in with a chance. DR you have to invest so many years into the horses training and invest a fortune into one horse, yes top DR riders might have a number of horses but often you only have one top horse then some youngsters you are bringing on. SJ you need a few top horses and a few horses sitting just below top level as your 'string' to make it worthwhile.

And as everyone else has said - pro riders can charge good money for lessons and clinics, they buy, bring on then sell horses for a decent profit, they have owners and sponsors....Now its not an easy way to make money, and all other disciplines apart from SJ the riders tend to be from priviledged backgrounds so mummy and daddy have often had a part of play in setting the rider up. But with SJ there is more prize money available, providing you enter enough classes and to enter more classes you need more horses!
 
Because my main focus is bringing horses on/retraining, most of my competing has been to that end with the idea that the horse will be sold or eventually be for the owner to ride. This is true, surprisingly, even at the very highest levels. I've known many a horse with a top pro jumping at GP or even Nations' Cup level, where the eventual goal is for the owner's child to take over the ride.

Plus there are people who just enjoy owning and being part of the process. Years ago I asked an owner who supported me very well if she didn't want to ride at least the quietest of her horses. I couldn't believe she didn't really want to. Finally, I must have annoyed her and she snapped, 'Look, I'm a grown up and can spend my money the way I want, thank you very much! I love watching my horses in the ring but have no desire to ride any of them. If the spirit moves me I'll walk around the block on one of the retired ones. In the mean time, shut up and ride the horses.' :D
 
Good question OP. I have been rather jealous reading Social Media over Christmas and early January seeing the holidays that eventers have been having (these are the ones who have been complaining bitterly about prize money and compared to show jumpers they do win a pittance).

I have seen trips to Dubai; the US; ski trips galore; new yards being built and these are not the ones who have been out giving clinics/lessons in Oz/NZ over the festive season so not earning.

None of the riders alluded to above are hugely successful in the league of WFP or have ridden for their countries so they must as Tarrsteps said have a good source of funding from elsewhere or else have sold a shed load of horses over the past year!
 
I would say option A. As, tbf, does WFP.

I think people are a bit delusional about the sort of money even midrange pros make. Fees may be high, but so is overhead. Even the people I know who are hugely talented work like trojans and make a moderate living, relative to the hours and effort.
 
The pro eventer I know (competes at Olympic level) charges £155 a month for a tenth share in an advanced horse, £280 a month for a fifth share in a novice horse and £340 a month for a quarter share in a young horse. Not sure if that's on a par with others or not but just thought I'd chuck the figures out there.

Obviously that seems a lot of money to me (a skint person who will probably never be able to afford their own horse, let alone one for someone else to ride) but I imagine his costs are pretty high too. Renting a decent yard can't come cheap!

Nicnac - I thought the very same thing! Some of the eventers have clearly got very rich, generous owners, judging by the tweets about the weekends away, trips to Dubai etc that they've been given. Lucky them!
 
In short, at Rosie's level, competing/schooling other people's horses and improving your own so they will sell at a profit. She also uses her parent's yard and land and works her socks off. She had a week in Gran Canaria in November, no chance of Dubai or anywhere glamorous sadly. :(
 
Owners paying hundreds of pounds in livery a week
Sponsors
Lessons & clinics
Owners paying the competition fees
Rich mummies & daddies quite often !
 
Working very hard. Putting in lots of extra hours. Selling the best horse in your yard. Even though you know its destined for the top your bank balance says otherwise. Taking chances on youngsters and working hard to make them the best they can be.

We don't all have rich parents- just exceptionally supportive who are their on hand, always offering help, advice and support. Helping us to achieve our dream and what one day was most probably theirs.
 
The livery fee could be £100's per week
Owner pays entrance fee, shoeing, vets, injections, fuel costs.
Sponsership can be help too
 
JKPequestrian said:
We don't all have rich parents- just exceptionally supportive who are their on hand, always offering help, advice and support. Helping us to achieve our dream and what one day was most probably theirs.
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I was going to say, I don't think it's often so much that the parent (or partner) is "rich", more supportive and willing to put into the business without a market value return. Having a base to work out of, even a shared mortgage makes a huge difference in overhead. Free labour is another cost that often gets ignored - I know more than one rider whose parent or partner is unpaid staff, often on top of another job. If you think about it, this is another £12k or £15k into the business.
 
I also think that the type of people who can sell horses for 6 figure sums on a regular basis have incredible business and communication skills... Yes good horses sell themselves but I do believe to complete a sale, the purchaser is placing a huge amount of faith and trust into the vendor? To win that trust and win a sale- That is a real fine art and a lot of people just can't do it..
 
DonkeyClub said:
I also think that the type of people who can sell horses for 6 figure sums on a regular basis have incredible business and communication skills... Yes good horses sell themselves but I do believe to complete a sale, the purchaser is placing a huge amount of faith and trust into the vendor? To win that trust and win a sale- That is a real fine art and a lot of people just can't do it..
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This is absolutely true of my friend. Alongside horses she has worked in two other industries, including real estate, and her husband is an accountant. They are essentially retired now, judging and selling a couple a year, but they are able to do this because they have been extremely business like in everything they've done. Including, I have to say, knowing when to cut their loses.

Some of the best horsemen I've known have also been AWFUL business people and lived hand to mouth because of it, despite being hugely talented. To each, their own, I guess, but in my experience there has to be someone with a business head, if not the rider then someone else heavily invested in the business.
 
JKPequestrian said:
Working very hard. Putting in lots of extra hours. Selling the best horse in your yard. Even though you know its destined for the top your bank balance says otherwise. Taking chances on youngsters and working hard to make them the best they can be.

We don't all have rich parents- just exceptionally supportive who are their on hand, always offering help, advice and support. Helping us to achieve our dream and what one day was most probably theirs.
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Appreciate there are some people out there making a living without having rich parents (good on you!) but the pro yards I worked at rich mummy and daddy meant gorgeous yard and 15 dressage horses (minimum), and free house to live in, mum and dad also helping out on yard every day. I think those who make a go of it without parents help (either horsey parents giving free labour or letting you use their land on farm etc) or generous rich parents are the exception to the rule to be honest - at least they are in my area!

So generally I think most pro's often either have rich parents or parents from a horsey background - someone like me who would die and go to heaven if I was able to turn pro could never do it realistically when I dont have rich parents, nor do I have horsey parents. Dont have my own horse either which doesnt help!
 
I once, many years ago, did a spreadsheet (I'm that kinda guy!) annotating the various common factors of top dressage competitors, and the most common denominator? Money; either from parents, partners or sponsors. NO ONE had "made it on their own" with just talent and hard work. Bit depressing, actually.
 
I can think of two HUGELY successful exceptions to that rule, Carl Hester and Eric Lamaze - but they really are freaks and they have other attributes in spades. What's more interesting is they were both exceptional before they were out of their teens, not necessarily in results but by their profile within the industry.
 
TarrSteps said:
I can think of two HUGELY successful exceptions to that rule, Carl Hester and Eric Lamaze - but they really are freaks and they have other attributes in spades. What's more interesting is they were both exceptional before they were out of their teens, not necessarily in results but by their profile within the industry.
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They had a supporter though- someone said "yes, you are worth investing in". You need someone willing to make that investment and if it can't be family you have to work very hard to prove you're worth it to other people. It's easier when it is family, because mostly they're hard wired to help you.

But on any level, to get sponsors or a supporter if they're not family-based or a previous connection via the family (godparents/ aunts/ uncles) you need to prove you're worth it. And that's quite hard to do really. Even on a very small scale, it irks me when people say that Al is lucky to have her supporter, when in reality she's been slogging it since she was 15 with Reg and then Bee too to prove to she's worth their time.
 
I agree with you Lolo. Anyone who has non-family/friend supporters has worked for it whether their family/friends are rich or not.
 
Oh, absolutely, no one can do it without support. And anyone who succeeds in horses to the point of being able to support themselves has worked very very hard and made many sacrifices.

My point was only that Carl and Eric were not 'ordinary' teens who are only where they are because someone said yes to them, they were exceptional from the get go. For most of the rest of us that sort of support made the difference between staying in the industry or not, not going to the Olympics.
 
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Very true TS, exceptional is the word.
I don't know if Alice is the same Lolo but Rosie is actually at her most content when working with the horses. When we go away (usually to Cornwall for a week) she's longing to get back to them after 4 or 5 days and they are absolutely her favourite topic of conversation. Strange girl ;)
 
I don't know what happened there!! I meant to quote you and Deseado at once, trying to say that you need money to do this sport. It's not just owning the horse, but entry fees and the day to day cost of horses generally. Let alone one which is at a decent level of competition. So saying none had come from nothing is a bit of a hard thing to say, because nothing is hard to define. Like your two did, and they found through showing exceptional talent and determination someone willing to make an investment.

Rosiefan, yep! She went to Corfu for a week and loved the time off. But also wanted almost constant updates about her little darlings and did miss them. She needs the break I think to remind her how much she wants it. And to prevent total exhaustion.
 
Rosiefan said:
Very true TS, exceptional is the word.
I don't know if Alice is the same Lolo but Rosie is actually at her most content when working with the horses. When we go away (usually to Cornwall for a week) she's longing to get back to them after 4 or 5 days and they are absolutely her favourite topic of conversation. Strange girl ;)
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That is essential. I think you have to learn balance later or run the risk of getting stale/bitter/tunnel vision but when you are young it has to be all consuming.

I read John Gielgud's autobiography years ago and he had a line in it. "The only reason to be an actor is because you can't not be one." I think the same is true of working in horses. I have never met a top professional in any discipline who is not fascinated by horses and endlessly interested in all the aspects of them. They are interested in what other people in other discipline are up to, new ideas, old traditions - all of it. They are not all lovely people - it's a hard business and you need to be tough - but they love horses, even if it's not always in the way people who do not spend their lives with them think is "best". And, if they are good, horses love them, too.
 
TarrSteps said:
That is essential. I think you have to learn balance later or run the risk of getting stale/bitter/tunnel vision but when you are young it has to be all consuming.

I read John Gielgud's autobiography years ago and he had a line in it. "The only reason to be an actor is because you can't not be one." I think the same is true of working in horses. I have never met a top professional in any discipline who is not fascinated by horses and endlessly interested in all the aspects of them. They are interested in what other people in other discipline are up to, new ideas, old traditions - all of it. They are not all lovely people - it's a hard business and you need to be tough - but they love horses, even if it's not always in the way people who do not spend their lives with them think is "best". And, if they are good, horses love them, too.
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Love this ^^^ so true. As an ex-professional I can really empathise with this.
 
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