how do these kids get to the top?

TarrSteps said:
Really?
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Yes!!!

If they're dedicated enough and work hard enough, they will come to the attention of someone somewhere! Go and be someone's yard *****, fork poo for pennies and muck out stables and brush muddy legs for long enough, get given a ride on an old dobbin with knows roughly what it's doing and you (general) have your foot in the door.

Didn't Carl Hester come from a teeny tiny town in Isle of Man, slogged away hard enough, and was then given a ride by the Bechtolsheimers?
 
Well my sons already started, he first sat on a pony as a baby and now he's 19 months old he can trot about whilst being held on of course as his balance isnt quite ready to go alone just yet but then that was bareback! He's getting a saddle this Christmas from his grandad! I doubt he'd ever do the stuff those kids do though, its ridiculously expensive to get a child to that level, have you seen the prices of those little ponies?! I very very much doubt any of them get where they are without money behind them... but hey that's pretty much like high level adult show jumping too (or any other disipline!).
 
nikkimariet said:
Yes!!!

If they're dedicated enough and work hard enough, they will come to the attention of someone somewhere! Go and be someone's yard *****, fork poo for pennies and muck out stables and brush muddy legs for long enough, get given a ride on an old dobbin with knows roughly what it's doing and you (general) have your foot in the door.

Didn't Carl Hester come from a teeny tiny town in Isle of Man, slogged away hard enough, and was then given a ride by the Bechtolsheimers?
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But he wasn't 14! We aren't talking about how people make it in the industry, we're talking about how 12 year olds make it Finals and 16 year olds jump in GPs.

Of course people work their way up but there are very few kids jumping below YR level without SIGNIFICANT family support of combined money and effort. To have a Olympia quality - and qualified - pony they'd have to be out there mucking and brushing at 6.;)

It isn't at all impossible to compete on a budget as a child. I rode other people's ponies and horses my whole childhood, including ones for sale and for breeders, and was lucky enough to be able to compete and even travel a bit. Then I was a WP in high school for someone who was incredibly generous. I even did fairly well. But I rode with kids who had 5 and even 6 figure horses and, with the best will in the world, it was often very frustrating! I know kids that have effectively ridden professionally as teenagers but when it comes to things like Pony Teams and YRs you have to have the horse power and that costs money.
 
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Are you talking of Young Riders (which I think the OP was) in which case they are on horses not ponies. I can vouch that the winner of the U23, Jess Dimmock, is not from the wealthiest of families.Yes her family do sacrifice a lot to help her but she works very hard, has been a working pupil and student with Tim Stockdale who has seen her talent and supported her. She bakes cakes to make money to help her stay in the sport and has bought, produced and sold one or two young horses to keep going. A lovely family and really hard working . A really well deserved win - well done Jess.
 
I have to say, ALL the kids riding at that level work very hard, even the ones with significant financial support. This whole conversation in no way takes away from their effort and achievement. But to say that kids are able to get to that level at that age without a lot of family support is not very realistic.

To be fair, Eric Lamaze was riding professionally and had moved to another country at 14, but I would say he and his situation were atypical on many levels. It does happen, there are always exceptions. But I still think the answer to the original question is overwhelmingly 'family investment'.
 
Many years ago there was a little girl at Pony Club - all of 5 years old - we had to drag her out of the six bar jumping class as it was higher than her pony and she was determined to do it - at the time she was not always with her pony and rode on a loose rein - she had the most awesome and honest pony.

She is now 10 years old and is about to ride her fourth team for Pony Club Show Jumping Champs. She regularly jumps Grand Prx classes - she just has guts and an honest pony.

She has also been out hunting regularly since she was four years old - her mum works for the hunt.

Some I've seen as passengers on made ponies - you rarely see them do well on hacks though.

I currently teach a little girl who is just turning eleven - in July last year she wouldn't jump a pole on the ground - by March she competed at Horse of the Year and came 5th in her Show Hunter class. She is now happily jumping 90 - 100 metre classes
 
We all celebrate the commitment and achievement of successful children competing horses or ponies at a very high level. To do so requires - amongst other things like talent, hard work, grit and determination - cold hard cash. The exceptions to this do exist but they are exceptions.
 
Unfortunately you do need money, riding isn't a cheap sport at the lowest level let alone at the top level. Whether the pony riders at the top are privileged to have a 5/6 figure pony, their own yard, regular lessons and a groom they all work incredible hard. You do need talent, however with the right amount of determination if you have enough talent you can get there eventually with hard work, produce your own ponies, be based at a good livery/ rent a yard
 
Now that' a fab story! jess had a cracking round.
sport horse said:
Are you talking of Young Riders (which I think the OP was) in which case they are on horses not ponies. I can vouch that the winner of the U23, Jess Dimmock, is not from the wealthiest of families.Yes her family do sacrifice a lot to help her but she works very hard, has been a working pupil and student with Tim Stockdale who has seen her talent and supported her. She bakes cakes to make money to help her stay in the sport and has bought, produced and sold one or two young horses to keep going. A lovely family and really hard working . A really well deserved win - well done Jess.
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I was lucky enough as a child to stumble across an amazing pony whom my parents brought (not expensive) as a showing pony as I wasn't interested in jumping at the time. She was cracking little pony and soon enough she had given me the confidence to jump. In the space of a year I went from playing pretty ponies in the show ring to jumping foxhunters. It was just pure luck, even we didn't realise the penitential she had. My parents were neither knowledgable when it came to horse nor did they have lots of money, they were however extremely supportive.

I remember my first BS (or BSJA back then) competition with this pony. She was very scruffy with about 3 lines of shaved fur up her side because thats all she would let clip off the day before, with a manky old saddle. All the other ponies were immaculate from head to toe, and all the other kids looked down their noses at me sniggering at my ponies bodged up clip and tack. She went on to win the both classes that day, which soon rubbed those smirk faces off the other kids faces.

Unfortunately I don't think many kids are as lucky as I was back then, it takes money, commitment and lots knowledgeable help.
 
The other issue for kids is the time pressure - they don't have years to get horses and ponies going, make mistakes etc. If they want to make finals and Teams they need to be on the program and be lucky! By the time they are out of YR this does ease a bit as any horse good enough to jump at that level is probably good enough to at least give experience in open classes.
 
TarrSteps said:
The other issue for kids is the time pressure - they don't have years to get horses and ponies going, make mistakes etc. If they want to make finals and Teams they need to be on the program and be lucky! By the time they are out of YR this does ease a bit as any horse good enough to jump at that level is probably good enough to at least give experience in open classes.
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This also, I had a friend who did ok in 128s and really well in 138s. Her parents weren't super rich but they put everything they had (time and money) into the sport.
Where she had the advantage was ponies were kept at home so could have several ponies on the go but crucially she had an older sister who also Baja and parents would buy young ponies on the cheap, sister brought them on and when her sister was out of the class my friend had a made pony.
Parents couldn't afford to buy a made pony for the older sister so it caused resentment between them. They got really lucky with one particular 138 who won at hoys but the older sister got fed up and stopped riding after that so no made ponies in the 148s and they both prety much stopped with the horses after that
 
The predominant factors are surely money and a horsey background. Yes, talent is also important but it will take longer to get to the top without the ability to have the horsepower, facilities, training, transport etc. on tap. Horsey parents understand that to do well, their child has to ride regularly with weekly lessons and they will be able to give advice. Even their ability to hack on weekdays, tack up and muck out saves time and energy for the child. They will offer entry money without a battle as they are competitive themselves.

I do not have horsey parents, am 16 and riding at BE100 level. We are capable of going to 1* but there are so many simple obstacles that are often a given with horsey parents. My horse did live out 24/7, it took 6 months to persuade them to have him in. Every time he is clipped, I have to argue why he needs it and have to pay half. Eventing is limited to once (occasionally twice) a month and it takes about 2 weeks to squeeze half the cash out of my parents. At the same time, I am babysitting 3-4 times a week to pay for everything other than livery and shoes and trying to get 5 A's in my Highers.

As a consequence, when it comes to events, I am often under-prepared and pushed for time on the day as all tacking up, studding up, course-walking has to be done on my own. I have no trainer who comes to events with me so there are no eyes on the ground to help me out. This is the difference between me and another child in my section who has a string to compete which their groom/parent has washed, plaited, tacked up, enabling them to focus on their dressage test, not worrying how they will fit the sj course walk and change of tack in before their next time.

So the difference in scores is obvious. Where I would get a 35 dc but time pen xc as horse not as fit as he could be, they manage a 28 dc consistently. Of course, I am super lucky to be able to event and enjoy it so, so much but it would be nice if the experience wasn't so stressful all the time and I was perhaps occasionally rewarded with some luck and success for my endeavor!
 
I know the family of the winner of the Junior Foxhuner a few years back. That was a pony from a sale that they brought on themselves, but mother was knowledgeable and the rider was very keen. Don't know what happened to it, I don't know if it went on or not.

The junior classes are always very impressive. I have seen the classes at Olympia and the HOYS. I was amazed at the height of the Open Junior at a local show, yet the ponies just seemed to hop over without any trouble at all.

However, I have also heard an instructor say that he teaches the child rider to ride the pony they have as generally the pony does most of the work and if the rider started to try to influence it the "partnership" would fall apart. I know there are exceptions, and there is always going to be the excellent rider who started in junior and made it to the top.
 
The other thing is the cost of actually competing: like, even if Al had done pony trial stuff (she did, from the age of 14-16, have a pony she competed at the appropriate level unaff.) there's no way on god's green earth we could have afforded the entry fees for it. I don't know if it's the same for SJ, but classes are expensive and you're expected to do them. Not mentioning the special YR training and things.

And I'm just putting it out there, after a recent giggle we had- a £10k pony is not cheap. It might be comparatively cheap when you consider the 'top' ponies go for ten times that, but it's still a lot of money!!
 
bgb - Is there any reason why you need to stable your horse? Endurance horses live out 24/7, and I had one crazy mare that an instructor advised that it lived out to keep it calm. I agree that you need a stable to have for an emergency/get ready, and that you probably do need to clip.

Not having eyes on the ground is harder. Are there any local training schemes/pony clubs who could help you with some instruction and advice?

Good luck, though, you are doing well.
 
Bgb don't expect things to get any easier as you get older! Lots of people work long hours in stressful jobs and get up very early before work to get horses fit to event. Bills and mortgages unfortunately often leave little money for lessons. Lots of us event on our own as adults, independence is a very useful skill! Just as you are doing now you have to be committed and make sacrifices to get the things you want in life.
 
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At least Al is getting to live the dream now... She really deserves it :)
Lolo said:
The other thing is the cost of actually competing: like, even if Al had done pony trial stuff (she did, from the age of 14-16, have a pony she competed at the appropriate level unaff.) there's no way on god's green earth we could have afforded the entry fees for it. I don't know if it's the same for SJ, but classes are expensive and you're expected to do them. Not mentioning the special YR training and things.

And I'm just putting it out there, after a recent giggle we had- a £10k pony is not cheap. It might be comparatively cheap when you consider the 'top' ponies go for ten times that, but it's still a lot of money!!
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Orangehorse said:
bgb - Is there any reason why you need to stable your horse? Endurance horses live out 24/7, and I had one crazy mare that an instructor advised that it lived out to keep it calm. I agree that you need a stable to have for an emergency/get ready, and that you probably do need to clip.

Not having eyes on the ground is harder. Are there any local training schemes/pony clubs who could help you with some instruction and advice?

Good luck, though, you are doing well.
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Unfortunately yes! He lives out 24/7 in summer as I can ride him everyday but during the winter he gets bored stood in a field with no grass and pulls his own shoes off. Quite a nuisance when it happens once a week. Bringing him in has stopped this and it also means it is easier to ride after school. Hopefully trying to have regular lessons with BE regional coach as I think he is super but just tricky trying to fit everything in.
 
It's not just ££ that are needed you need to have time rich parents as well who can accompany the child to competitions all over the country week in, week out. If both parents have to work full time & there are other children to look after that can be impossible to manage. We had this issue when my eldest was competing at a high level in another sport. Even going to monthly training camps paid for by the sports body could mean an overnight stay & travel to Bristol/Yorkshire/Lancashire to pay for. A top level competition could mean travelling 200/300 miles on a Friday, possibly Thursday night if he was competing early, for Junior qualifying (so Dad had to take at least 1 day of annual leave) & then back on Sunday for the final.
 
hairycob said:
It's not just ££ that are needed you need to have time rich parents as well who can accompany the child to competitions all over the country week in, week out. If both parents have to work full time & there are other children to look after that can be impossible to manage. We had this issue when my eldest was competing at a high level in another sport. Even going to monthly training camps paid for by the sports body could mean an overnight stay & travel to Bristol/Yorkshire/Lancashire to pay for. A top level competition could mean travelling 200/300 miles on a Friday, possibly Thursday night if he was competing early, for Junior qualifying (so Dad had to take at least 1 day of annual leave) & then back on Sunday for the final.
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if my boss cant make it for some reason (usually a holiday) she pays for one of the trainers/instructors to take the lorry and go with the kids
 
It's about being able to spot raw talent in a pony. I love my SJ ponies and have had several really good ones, best one got to HOYS fox final with his jockey (I buy and sell) none of them have actually cost a small fortune but we have produced them well, the really good ponies are normally slightly freaky finds, I love buying ponies as its a lot more of a lottery than SJ horses, you find a lot more odd balls and breeding dosent always come in to it. One of our best ponies was hackney x Clydesdale!!! Best SJ pony I have on yard now is a hairy cobby thing that needs frequent clipping or looks like a yak. She has so much heart though and will jump anything. Parents can buy their way to the top in SJ as the good JAs are very easy to ride and just take their riders round, but the really good kids will produce something on. Personally if I was buying for a child I would buy a good JC that's jumping 1m- 1.10 but scopey and I know I wouldn't need to spend over 10k to get something top class.
 
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