How do you define amateur?

[NooNoo59]

In my opinion it is someone who rides/competes for fun, who does not make a living out of their chosen discipline, i understand that there is a grey area where a professional rider enters young/novice horses, but is there not a case for novice horse classes to keep amateur classes for the true amateur rider?

 

[MiCsarah]

Somebody who doesnt make a living out of riding. I dont know about other disciplines but eventing and dressage have the open classes for the pros to ride youngers horses and the restricted classes for the true amateurs

 

[Goldenstar]

This an interesting question an amateur is someone who earns no money from horses or could a person who teaches but who rides her on her own time be a amateur or a groom who completes her own horse or a person who rides full time there own horses with trainers grooms etc etc but earns no money it's very difficult to define IMV a competion is a competion and should be open to all comers within the confines of the rules of the class.ie horse not been placed in such and such a class or whatever.
I have no interest in being artificially divided up.

 

[guido16]

Dictionary.com definition;

a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.

 

[Goldenstar]

Somebody who doesnt make a living out of riding. I dont know about other disciplines but eventing and dressage have the open classes for the pros to ride youngers horses and the restricted classes for the true amateurs

Not so all start restricted in dressage and more to open based on performance at competions .
In eventing you are prevented riding at the lower levels based on you having completed at the higher levels during a certain period it's got nothing to do with being paid.

 

[Kat]

Depends on the context!

I know that some sports are tougher than others. My uncle was a fairly high level cyclist and when he was competing if you were an amateur you were not allowed to get cash prizes. If you did you were considered a pro, even if you had a full time job and the cash prize was less than your expenses.

In horse sports there are grey areas with people who make their living from horses but not competing. It is fairly obvious that Mary King or WFP is a pro and no matter what the horse they are on they should be considered a pro but what about someone who is an instructor who also competes or who owns a competition yard?

I know someone who was unable to compete in amateur showing classes because his wife ran a riding school and therefore their household income was mainly derived from horses. I know that many of the amateur showing classes also ban anyone who has their horse on full livery ridden by the staff as they have to be "home produced".

For me a true amateur has a day job away from horses and doesn't earn more from their equestrian activities than their costs. Although I would say that the day job could involve horses, so I would say that someone who worked in a tack shop, or as an equine vet, or as a saddle fitter could be an amateur but a groom or instructor probably wouldn't.

 

[Waffles]

Amateur is someone who does it for the love of it (like the word Amore) and a professional is someone who gets paid or earns a living from their pursuit.

 

[Goldenstar]

Depends on the context!

I know that some sports are tougher than others. My uncle was a fairly high level cyclist and when he was competing if you were an amateur you were not allowed to get cash prizes. If you did you were considered a pro, even if you had a full time job and the cash prize was less than your expenses.

In horse sports there are grey areas with people who make their living from horses but not competing. It is fairly obvious that Mary King or WFP is a pro and no matter what the horse they are on they should be considered a pro but what about someone who is an instructor who also competes or who owns a competition yard?

I know someone who was unable to compete in amateur showing classes because his wife ran a riding school and therefore their household income was mainly derived from horses. I know that many of the amateur showing classes also ban anyone who has their horse on full livery ridden by the staff as they have to be "home produced".

For me a true amateur has a day job away from horses and doesn't earn more from their equestrian activities than their costs. Although I would say that the day job could involve horses, so I would say that someone who worked in a tack shop, or as an equine vet, or as a saddle fitter could be an amateur but a groom or instructor probably wouldn't.

This shows how difficult it is to define because we mean different things but the term at different times.
At one point many years ago the the rules in RC where defined in such a way that I a housewife and someone who learned a lot as riding club member was banned from teams on a five yo but a pro running a yard producing horses could have gone on the team riding one of my other horses who had completed 3* that year but was still just in intermediate points that was mad.
The thing is we mix up the terms depend on what we mean at the time and often we use profession or non amateur when we mean good .

 

[Littlelegs]

It's easy to define in theory, but using it to split classes would be near impossible to do fairly. At one point I was a sole charge groom, & for extra cash taught freelance & bought the odd project or unbroken 4yr old. Before selling I would do a handful of unaffil stuff with them. And most were ponies. So it could be said I was making my income from horses. So taking a project round a 2'6 unaffil sj was competing as part of my income, despite the fact the total profit from a project horse is pretty small & more a non costing hobby. That would therefore mean if classes had to be split into pro or amateur, I would have had to compete my 14.2 in senior bs against only pros, which is a bit ludicrous. There's a huge, massive gap between someone like me & what we mostly think of as a pro, so splitting classes would still make it unfair. And personally, if I ever ended up in a class with a pro on a young horse, I just saw it as a chance to watch & learn & a challenge to up my own riding. If winning was my only aim on my own then I would have just pot hunted unaffil, more satisfaction though in being placed below a top rider. Even more so if you beat them when they're on a novice horse at a low end competition.