how do you define bolting?

No brakes - horse going really really really fast that you can't see and eyes are streaming

or if you ride mine - you get the giggles and hang on tight, knowing he will stop eventually.
 
We use a ported kimblewick with slots, like this one:

http://www.uk-saddlery.com/item608.htm

The ported mouthpiece puts more pressure on the bars of the mouth than the tongue & many ponies (particularly strong, stocky native types), find them very comfortable & more importantly, relate very well to them! lol
The curb/poll action is normally sufficiently adequate in response to lowered hands & a good level of control can be achieved without having to fight with the pony!

Not suitable for nervous novices with a tendency to yank their hands up to their nostrils in panic though! lol
Used roughly, this bit may cause bruising & damage to the bars or roof of the mouth & I feel is best viewed as something the pony will respect & know 'is there'! Used sympathetically, it sits comfortably & any pinching etc. should be fairly minimal, so nothing to irritate the pony from the word go!
It also has a good psychological effect on the rider, as it is has enough 'stopping power' to be quite confidence giving, knowing you nearly always have a 'little more' at your disposal, should you need it!

You definitely need a curb chain/strap of sorts with it - we use a nice leather one. It is imperative if fitting a chain that it is not twisted anywhere, as you won't like the results of this & the pony certainly won't!
Main advantage over a pelham is the fact that a kimblewick is designed to be used with only one set of reins & although some people sneer at them, calling them a poor 'compromise', that is exactly what it is - a combination/compromise of snaffle & curb & generally, a very effective one!

Hope you could understand my waffle!
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Toffee has "run off" with me more times than I can count but she has only properly "bolted" once. It was in an open set-aside field and I thought I was a gonner! She was already napping away from home and some cows came up behind a hedge and that was it, she was gone, I managed eventually to circle her round but every time she was towards home she just swerved again and went again, eventually she was facing home and going straight towards a ditch, I thought we were both going to end up in it but she swerved at the last second and I was launched in to it and couldn't sit or stand for a good 5 minutes, very bruised, dazed and confused. She carried on running home. It was absolutely terrifying!!
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Her usual trick is just running off as she is badly behaved but now she has a waterford I can just about hold her in company!
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Thanks JAK, that's all really helpful. My worry is that I am a really bad rider and so I would be very cautious of hurting him.

Basically, I recently got some photos of me riding him about 3 months ago (when he first arrived) and he is tanking off round the school with me in every one, and it looks like I'm hanging on to him too hard. This has made me completely paranoid about pulling too hard on his mouth, hence my worries about using a stronger bit.

Having said that, I don't think I am rough with him, I don't yank or jab him, I am just having to pull quite hard with the snaffle, as he has no respect for it.
 
Troggy, that sounds pretty terrifying, poor you. I managed to slow him enough to bail out just before he went for a ditch (he would have swerved suddenly) yesterday, and I've got quite good at landing on my feet (have no idea how I managed that yesterday though!!)
 
Well you are doing the best for your pony already - trying your best to better yourself and seeking the help and advice of others!

He will learn manners - you mentioned a bit back that he was a kids pony - he is probably used to an easy life and being able to do what he wants with a helpless child - being lazy and getting lots of sweets - you will sort him !!

I have my cob in a gag which is good as it has four rings - the reins are normally on the top ring (mildest) but its good as if I think she will have a strong day (rare) I can put the reins on a lower ring - giving me a bit more leverage (sounds mean sorry) - I will be introducing her to a pelham soon as we will start showing next year - so will let you know how mine goes - I had a Fell about the same size as yours that I put in a pelham and she went much better in it - and we were both happy!

xxx
 
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for me bolting is definitely blind "the lights are on" panic, if you turned them into a tree the would probably hit it rather than stop as there is no thought there at all.

Then there is "running away" still no brakes but if you turned to a wall etc they would turn or stop.
 
I don't think you are THAT bad a rider bex!
I'm talking about people like Hedgehog Child, who has her pony in a Dutch gag (second ring) & simply gives a violent upward yank to slow down or stop & a violent yank to turn left or right! (Brings tears to my bl;**dy eyes watching her, never mind the pony's!)
Or really novicey people (HC again!), who feel a main function of their reins is for balance!
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Wobbling about, leaning forward, completely out of balance & putting constant lowering pressure on the reins etc. with this bit, would indeed be very unkind, yes!
Just sitting up & riding reasonably normally would be perfectly fine, I assure you - I very much doubt that everyone on here has absolutely perfect hands 100% of the time! lol
MD does not ride with soft, perfect hands all the time but as the pony does not fling her head about, open her mouth, bronc, tank or generally misbehave, we assume she is pretty satisfied with her generally! lol

I have watched BB's previous rider (in a 'kind', simple jointed snaffle!), saw violently at her mouth (with all her strength sometimes!), in an effort to slow her down or bring her back under control, with the pony's head in the air, or between her knees broncing for England & absolutely feel that a stronger bit that says 'head down, control, listen, I can & I will' is a million times kinder than an all-out war!
BB has come back from hacks so dripping in sweat, you could have wrung her out - MD brings her back dry & can now say 'No, I only want to canter here, I don't want a headlong Light Cavalry charge!'

Most importantly, the pony is happy - if she didn't like the kimblewick, no matter how 'suitable' I thought it would be, I wouldn't use it!
I judge the effectiveness of things on the response & result I get from them. BB is not being constantly restrained or 'threatened' with the bit in any way (I could find something a lot nastier than a kimblewick if that's all I wanted to achieve!), she simply goes better in it & the change in her behaviour & demeanour says we made the right choice for her!
 
Haven't had time to read a lot of the replies. But bolting is total panic, ie. the horse has no respect for his own safety. Ive had 3 horses bolt with me. All on hacks! One went straight through a barbed wire fence, the other 2 I was cantering in a field (on different occassions) when they spooked and bolted through a gateway, onto the road (where one fell over and the other one eventually stopped). Basically they go absolutely full pelt and they could go through anything in their way. Its pretty terrifying. There's not much you can do to stop it. You can try and turn them onto a big circle if space, otherwise its simply a case of holding on and waiting for them to calm down.

Cantering off is different. They're just taking the piss doing this and not generally scared. Yes, a horse might spook and run a few strides quickly but he'll soon stop or will be stoppable. That's not bolting. I think that yes, bolting is the genuine flight response kicking in. If your horse is running off with you then possibly try a different bit? Even if its just for a while until he breaks the habit.
 
jenbleep - yep will make sure I have a lesson once I get the new bit.

browbrow, thank you, you're right, he does need to learn manners. He only challenges me if I challenge him if that makes sense, his tanking nearly always happens if I push him slightly out of his comfort zone, so he probably did have an easy life just doing what he wanted before.
 
Do you have lessons with him at all? It sounds like it would really help you.

I think you need to take a two-pronged attack with this. First, change the bit as others have suggested for your immediate safety. Second, would be to get some lessons so you can teach pony to listen to your aids and respect you. Start in the school and use lots of upwards and downwards transitions and make sure he is obedient to your aids. Start in the slower paces and work your way up to the faster ones.

Out hacking you can do the same thing. Never canter in the same place twice in a row and don't let him anticipate. Make sure he is listening to you all the time.
 
TGM - I have occasional lessons and have been working on upwards and downwards transitions, circles etc in the school for over 2 months, but will keep it up, and will have another lesson soon (friend gives me lessons, and she's great and she's promised me another one soon as I'm looking after her mare this week while she's on hols).

Defo going to change his bit though, and see how that goes. The last few weeks i think he has been losing respect for the snaffle, and this is just the final straw that has helped me make the decision.
 
I agree with the pelham idea, if you do not want to use the chain curb use a leather or elastic one.

When I got my welsh cob many years ago I did the same as you and put him straight in a simple snaffle/noseband. I did find however that he does like to tank off at times, it may not be classified as bolting but it can still be very dangerous.

I decided it was better to be safe and after trying a few alternatives have ridden him for hacking in a pelham (metal as rubber is too big for his mouth) ever since. I ride with 2 reins and hardly ever need to use the curb rein, it's just there for emergencies.

I don't think I'm being harsh by riding in this bit, he's very happy in it and I'm definately safer (so is he). Actually he is built much like yours and is a wonderful horse in so many ways I do forgive him for his OTT enthusiasm.
 
Thanks JAK - I think I'll give a Kimblewick a try, perhaps with a rubber guard over the chain, or a leather curb to start with and see how we get on. If he's not happy then I'll go for a pelham, as that's what he was riden in before I had him so I know he'll be relatively happy in that.
 
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Blind panick - no body at home - flat out gallop.

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ditto
 
when they bolt blind - set their neck and get the bit between their teeth.

Completely different from tanking off for a gallop and then pulling up.

only happened to me once and my horse galloped straight onto a main road, down a steep hill and only stopped as I pointed him into a 10ft brick wall!
 
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Dont mess around - stick a pelham in. He looks like a very strong boy - and you wouldn't have a hope stopping him if he went.

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exactly what I was thinking - he's got a hell of a neck on him!
 
I think I would be more inclined to try a slotted kimblewick than a pelham too.
I was bolted with once while driving. Pony's head went up, bit between his teeth and - whooosh. Absolutely nothing would stop or turn him. I came off when he did a sudden turn of his choice, he went through the trees, down a lane and came face to face with a huge metal gate. He did it next day with hubby. Needless to say that was the end of his driving career.

Let us know which bit you go for and what results you get. Good luck. (lovely looking beastie by the way)
 
I would say that it would be worth trying the kimblewick first especially if you only want to use one rein. If you don't find it effective you can always move on and try the pelham.

That being said he was probably happy in a pelham as his previous owner was using one, perhaps that't worth taking into account.

Sorry not being much help here really...

I definately think a pelham is better used with two reins as you then get the choice of how to use it. I didn't find it as difficult as I expected to get used to two reins.

Does your local tack shop do any sort of bit hire?
 
Missed that last post - the ordinary one will have less curb/poll pressure than the slotted one. You may find it's not strong enough.
 
Firstly, huge hugs.


Secondly, you sound alot like me, in style of riding etc. I wouldnt trust myself with a harsh bit, as I know i can be a little heavy with my hands. But it sounds like you need something more than a snaffle.

Personally, i'd go for a pelham and double reins. I only say that because with two reins you can ride on the top rein, and only use the second rein as back up should you need it. Then in general riding you don't have to be constantly worried about your hands. With a rounding, okay it's easier to handle, but you need to be more soft and giving with your hands.

If he's being pig headed don't be afraid to give him a whack. In blind panic mode, it would serve no purpose as it's just make matters worse, but when he's taking the pee you need to show him you're in charge. Half a tonne of animal becomes dangerous if it thinks it's in charge of you. So make sure you nip this in the bud.
Do remember that they like to be part of a herd and us asking them to hack out alone, away from the herd is going against their instincts. I'm not saying you shouldnt hack alone, just that you need to bear this in mind, that he may not be used to it.

Good luck, keep us posted how he goes.
 
thanks hun, I don't think he is used to hacking completely alone, I think he's used to going with another horse, or another person on the ground, but I had a bit of a breakthrough a week or two again and managed to get him through some nappy moments, so I'm hoping we should be bale to hack alone (if I want to...).
Unfortunately I snapped my whip last week, so only had a schooling whip with me which really wasn't very useful!
 
True bolting is terrifying - I used to have a true bolter, something would scare her and she would run straight through the bridle in a blind panic, you could not stop and it was no good running her at anything - she would literally go straight through any hedges/fences you aimed her at, only way to stop was to put her on a circle (if you had the room
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), a horse that takes off for a couple of strides or you can stop by heading it at something is not, IMHO a bolter just something that takes off with you (I hope that makes sense
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