How do you feel about hot/fire branding?

PapaFrita

PapaFrita

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Foals at yard got branded today for their registration papers. They got a number on each butt cheek (point of buttock) and some studs have their own brand. I have to say that the Little Cigar was absolutely outraged, but he was actually more upset by being out of eyesight of his best mate, Sofanor for a few minutes.
I had a chat with the inspector and he told me that freeze marking was impractical (and apparently liquid nitrogen is hard to get hold of out here) but microchipping would be the norm within a couple of years or so.
Now, I know lots of studs in Europe continue to hotbrand, and I wonder why they do. I mean, I can understand that a brand is a visible indicator of the provenance of a horse and a deterrent in a similar way to a freezemark, but in that case, why do they not use freezemarks? I imagine it would get quite expensive if you had 20-30 or more foals to brand?
So, do you think hotbranding is unacceptably cruel, (sometimes) a necessary evil, or not really cruel at all? A few foals didn't seem to feel it at ALL.
 
Not cruel at all, the nerve cells are burnt off in seconds.

I have a theory that it's the smell that put people off.
 
What was interesting to me was that my vet went off on a rant about hot branding, saying it was cruel, archaic, etc, etc. Now, I was a bit gobsmacked, to say the least because I've seen vets do stuff out here, and horses kept in a manner that would be unacceptable in the UK.
 
I would personally say freezemarking is far more cruel that branding. Brands are applied to a young horse (generally), it only take a few moments to take and the horse is usually only starting to react as the brands come off. They are applied to an area that has plenty of covering and little need for lots of nerves (like the outside of out thighs!)

Freezemarking on the other hand is often done to older horses the irons have to be on for a longer period, it is often applied to the neck (where a horse would be attacked by another horse) or the back where the saddle has to go. think about it, where would you rather have pain applied...your spine, your neck or the outside of you thigh (which probably has a little fat even on the thinnest person)

I would prefer a brand over a microchip any day, it's visible, it should refer back to the stud/yard the horse orginated and can therefore be traced! Also it means at shows people know what sort of horse you are riding or at least they know it's a fancy one
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I personally think ice burns (from a human perspective - say icing an injury for too long/without protective layer) can be as painful as heat burns. Both are so quick, i'd be inclined to say hot branding is quicker, that I can't believe it is too traumatic.

I don't think it is unecessary. Yes microchips will become more prevalent but there are some real horror stories associated with those and they are, after all, the insertion of a foreign body under the skin and therefore there is a chance of rejection.

Brands are visible and therefore a potential theft deterrent. G's 'Z' brand is certainly an identifying feature - I wouldn't have had a clue about his breeding if he didn't have it, I certainly wouldn't have bothered researching it!
 
The KWPN stopped branding foals around 10 years ago (in favor of microchips) but most other European warmblood studbooks continue to do it. Personally I think it is quick if done correctly and shouldn't bother the foal too much, and they are an important visible identifier. IMHO there are FAR more pressing welfare issues for studbooks and vets to be worrying about!!!!
 
Nothing wrong with it if done properly. I branded many horses when we had our Peste Equina (AHS) outbreak as the guy from the authorities was useless and wasn't heating the brand up enough and it was sticking to the horses
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So I took over and TBH not one freaked or went wild or anything, they just took it and went on their way!
 
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Personally I think it is quick if done correctly and shouldn't bother the foal too much, and they are an important visible identifier. IMHO there are FAR more pressing welfare issues for studbooks and vets to be worrying about!!!!

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Totally agree here!
 
There was a similar discussion on IHDG a while back and somebody posted pictures of branded NF ponies (I think!), to show just how INvisible the brands were. I now have a branded exmoor mare and I think it looks awful.

My other exmoor (unregistered) looks better for not having it, I think and if I didn't have her papers and therefore KNOW what the branding says, it would be very unclear. Certainly, you have to be RIGHT next to her to make it out. There's no way it's a practical identifier for commoners. Henry is freezemarked in the saddle area and this stands out way better than Chloe's branding. Both have pros/cons as far as welfare goes, but the visibility issue swings it to FMing, for me.
 
Weezy - I'm sure I've asked this before - is the Pesta Equina brand an X ?

Plenty of horses here are hot branded - more in the south I think - but they all have to be microchipped by law as well now. I don't think hot branding is any better/worse for the horse than freezemarking but it is quick and cheap and can be done by any competent person. It would certainly be used here in preference to anything that required paying out hard cash when it wasn't necessary!
 
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How do you feel about gelding?

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How is that in any way relevant?

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Some people may call cutting off a horse testicles in order to make it easier to manage barbaric I was wondering if you were one of them.

Surely branding which causes pain that gradually subsides is very similar to gelding which although is not painful at the time as they are sedated and given pain killer will be sore afterwards and probably for longer than the brand will.

They are both done for man made reasons.
 
Coming from the New Forest where I have seen it done for years and indeed own 3 NF ponies which are hot branded, I do not have a problem with it. Generally they are branded in the saddle area, although it can be on the shoulder or flank too. Usually there is only the one brand unlike the exmoors.

If done by a competent person, it takes a couple of seconds and then it is all over with. Unlike freeze branding. I must have seen hundreds of ponies (inc foals) branded over the years and they are not distressed by the process.

My experience of seeing hot branding done on countless occasions in front of my own eyes, leads me to disagree with those who consider it cruel and barbaric.
 
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I thought freeze marking was painless? The irons ARE held on for much longer than hotbranding though, which is over in a second or so.

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It is as far as I'm aware. Certainly the horses I have had done, and seen done did not mind at all.
 
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The KWPN stopped branding foals around 10 years ago (in favor of microchips) but most other European warmblood studbooks continue to do it.

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I would've thought it would be quite important for studs (and the general public) to be able to identify their stock instantly, especially if they're competing and if the horse's name has been changed (I read somewhere this was fairly common and breeders were quite upset about it.

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IMHO there are FAR more pressing welfare issues for studbooks and vets to be worrying about!!!!

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True!
 
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Brands are visible and therefore a potential theft deterrent. G's 'Z' brand is certainly an identifying feature - I wouldn't have had a clue about his breeding if he didn't have it, I certainly wouldn't have bothered researching it!

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I'm sure it's important for breeders to know that their stock can be traced, should it become necessary.
 
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Nothing wrong with it if done properly. I branded many horses when we had our Peste Equina (AHS) outbreak as the guy from the authorities was useless and wasn't heating the brand up enough and it was sticking to the horses
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So I took over and TBH not one freaked or went wild or anything, they just took it and went on their way!

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Eeeek!! What were you branding them with? Stud /owner's brand?
 
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Hot branding is not something I would ever do - I think it's quite barbaric.

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But do you not think it's a useful visible identifier? If you couldn't get a freezemark would you still not get a brand to help you identify your horse should he get stolen/ fall into the wrong hands?
 
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There was a similar discussion on IHDG a while back and somebody posted pictures of branded NF ponies (I think!), to show just how INvisible the brands were. I now have a branded exmoor mare and I think it looks awful.

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TBF, Antifaz's breeders mark is pretty fuzzy... but someone who had a better knowledge than I did of brands would've known what it was straight away.
How do you think the brand looks awful? Do you think it was done badly or do you just think brands are ugly?
Personally, I think freezemarks are just as ugly if not more so
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My other exmoor (unregistered) looks better for not having it, I think and if I didn't have her papers and therefore KNOW what the branding says, it would be very unclear.

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I've seen both VERY clear brands and very fuzzy ones.

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Certainly, you have to be RIGHT next to her to make it out. There's no way it's a practical identifier for commoners.

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But presumably someone who knew what he was looking for would be able to see what it was?
Have you got a photo?
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I'm with AmyMay on this one - barbaric!!

though i've never had one hot or freeze branded so it's mostly gut feel and not evidence based.

However, freezebrands don't scar the skin, only damage the hair follicles. Presumably hot brands leave a raised scar on the skin(??) that's got to HURT! (how much does it hurt just catching your hand on an oven-shelf?)
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Isn't there some theory about prey animals not showing that they are in pain because it makes them more vulnerable to predation?

eta - re identification - each breeder having a different mark? Suppose if you have quantities of semi-wild horses running free then it would be a benefit. European brands tend to just be for breed mainly, don't they? (thinking Oldenburg, hannoverian etc.....)
 
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Hot branding is not something I would ever do - I think it's quite barbaric.

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But do you not think it's a useful visible identifier? If you couldn't get a freezemark would you still not get a brand to help you identify your horse should he get stolen/ fall into the wrong hands?

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I understand the reasons behind it - yes. And do agree that it's a useful visible identifier. Obviously your reasons for doing it are personal to you - and I would never castigate someone for having it done. However, I don't live abroad where perhaps different requirements apply - so won't ever be in the position of having to have it done.

But the idea of burning the skin with hot irons is abhorant to me. But like I said, I do understand that in some circumstances it's required.
 
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How do you feel about gelding?

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How is that in any way relevant?

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Some people may call cutting off a horse testicles in order to make it easier to manage barbaric I was wondering if you were one of them.

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Oh well, if we're going to talk about what some people think is cruel and others don't, we'll be here all day
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All WEEK even
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My experience of seeing hot branding done on countless occasions in front of my own eyes, leads me to disagree with those who consider it cruel and barbaric.

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Thanks for that. Does the breed determine where they're branded? Chap yesterday told me Criollos are branded on the shoulder, WB's/SJers on the thigh, others on the hindquarters (HIDEOUS place to put a brand from the aesthetic point of view IMO) and others on the cheek.
 
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