How do you know, how much scope your horse has?

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NewHeights_SJ

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It sounds like a stupid question, but my lesson today had me thinking. I know my mare can jump round newcomers because we have done it and with her previous owner she was jumped round fox (but with a proffessional). Im sure she could school round 1.30 at home...maybe even bigger but im not sure because i have never been brave enough to try.

So, does that mean she has the scope to take me round fox? What about 1.25 or even 1.30? I realise jumping at home is different - but how do you know how far you can go? What exactly does 'scope' mean?!
 
Scope to me is purely the horse's ability to jump a big fence in balance. It is not a rider influenced thing.

Whether your horse can jump round 1.30s or not is a different question to whether it can jump round 1.30s with you on board!
 
Scope is a great word....

Most horses have the 'scope' to jump round a Newcomers or even a Foxhunter...the difference is those horses that do it willingly and with ease compared to those that can just about manage it.

Bo has jumped 1.30m/1.40m tracks with a pro on his back...and i've jumped single fences around 1.50m....but I wouldn't say he was overly confident doing it. It's alright when things are going well, but what really matters is if the horse has the ability (or scope if you prefer) to do that little bit more when you don't quite hit the fence right or to lengthen down a related distance when required and still jump the huge oxer at the end of it.

A perfect example was Arko at the Athens Olympics when he faltered going towards a huge triple bar. Rather than stop or flap he just jumped the upright in the middle of the fence which was another foot higher and made it look easy
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I just think the feel the horse gives you over a fence - how much they clear their fences by, whether or not you're worried about how much room they're giving them, whether they are touching poles, and how consistent they are. Loose schooling?
 
My boy loose jumped 1.50 as a two year old quite happily, but I certainly will never know what he can do under saddle as there's no way I would even attempt anything like that. I thought scope included the width of a fence aswell. Not really sure though. I think its probably a keep going thing and if you get more confidence together and finding your current levels easy then push on. I
 
Rambo, what an amazing picture. I realise Arko is something special and i think these types of horses are few. Its interesting that you say you think most horses can jump around NC or even fox - im actually quite suprised, i would said that for disco certainly, but i think NC's starts to show what the horse really has, and at fox you need to be sitting on something other than run of the mill.

I think 'scope' is a very interesting thing. Perhaps it cant be measured at all, but is simply what you are able to achieve.
 
Yes, you keep going and see, at all times only pushing a little bit more at a time. MOST horses have scope over single fences that they absolutely do not possess over a course of jumps, because the balance and suppleness that is required over a course is beyond them (or their rider) at that point in time. I am absolutely convinced that you can improve a horses scope with good riding, good flatwork and good communication.

Rambo that has to be my all time fave SJ pic ever!
 
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Its interesting that you say you think most horses can jump around NC or even fox - im actually quite suprised, i would said that for disco certainly, but i think NC's starts to show what the horse really has, and at fox you need to be sitting on something other than run of the mill.

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Well, okay, maybe not your average riding school plod...but certainly anything that has been bred with a view to jumping will be able to get round a NC's and probably a Fox...albeit with the right rider on board.

Most horses that are sold on by the pro's or are imported from the continent will have been taken to 1.20m classes before being sold off if they don't make the grade.

Remember, a horse doesn't have to 'jump' at all until it gets to about 1m so jumping 1.20m is like stepping up a 20cms step to a horse
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[Remember, a horse doesn't have to 'jump' at all until it gets to about 1m so jumping 1.20m is like stepping up a 20cms step to a horse
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When you put it like that.... I might start jumping a bit higher now!!
 
I was thinking this the other day. I fancy a chase me charlie - how high can we go? Trouble is, at about 1.40m over a single fence, I start pulling up! But when you say it's only a 40cm step... well.
 
umm, it's a feeling, based on their natural style as much as anything for me. if they really come up in front, lift through their shoulders properly, power off the ground, then i can feel their scope. there is a point at which it's a bit "can it jump bigger?", "can it cope with a Fox/Advanced sj track?" or whatever.
i do think that the scopey ones know that they have scope, and are less flustered by odd strides etc, they just pull it out of the bag when you miss (well, when i do!), don't hold the mistake against you, just use their scope when and if they have to.
i don't think scope and carefulness necessarily go hand-in-hand, btw!
 
I think that both Rambo and Weezy have said some very valid points.
An athletic horse, a scopey horse can always get you out of jail and make it look like you never got it wrong in the first place. They have the athleticsm and the balance to sort themselves out. Its all very well saying that the top international showjumpers are never put 'wrong' to a fence because they often are. But they just make it LOOK like they never got to it wrong. They can sort themselves out and go and jump through a 1.60 m high/ 3 m(?) wide treble even if they were completly 'wrong' at the first part. To the public it will look like they never faltered. A unscopey horse would prob scramble over the first part and refuse the second. But then again there is also the training/rider ability factors coming into account there.

There is that factor and there is also the feeling that it gives you. Just pure power that makes you gasp! which makes you feel like a 1.30 m fence is nothing, just a 2foot cross pole.
 
I wouldn't say that's the definition of a scopey horse though, I'd say that a horse can get you out of trouble is one with a fifth leg, hence kerilli saying that scopey horses aren't necessarily careful. I think it all boils down to the feeling you get over a fence - look at Pippa Funnel's Bits and Pieces as an example, in her autobiography she says he had no feeling of scope over a fence at all and yet he had that fifth leg to get you out of trouble.
 
For me it's feeling that something out of my comfort zone as a rider is easy on that horse, and that the horse is finding it easy enough that it is not phased by my lack of confidence. It's that bit of cockyness which makes you go 'wow, I jumped that and it felt 2 foot high'. It was that feeling, over a 3'6" oxer, in a dressage saddle, when I'd barely left the ground in 3 years, ten mins after getting on him to try him, which made me buy my current horse. Ok, so that's not big, but it was for me at the time. By the same token, tonight he popped over a 1.20 oxer, which is right on the edge of my comfort zone, and did it easily. And he's no well-schooled professionally produced schoolmaster, he's a total amateurs horse. It is the feeling he gives me over a fence which I will always be looking for in any horse in the future. Or better of course
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