How do you know if it's right to PTS?

[Pegasus5531]

I'm having a real dilemma at the moment with my horse. She damaged her tendon quite severely in October and has been on box rest since with regular visits from the vets to scan and check the tendon. There has been very limited improvement and the latest advice is to keep her on box rest until spring and then just turn her out and leave her and see if she gets any better. I'm reluctant to do that as I worry she could tear the tendon again and be stood in the field in pain until the next field check. The vets initially said she may come sound to hack but that she is likely to reinjure the tendon at least once when back in work. I worry because she is very hot and not a plod so I think mentally she wants to be doing more even though physically she can't keep up. A few people have suggested that it may be kinder to PTS, has anyone else been in a similar situation? I don't want the guilt either way or putting her down or of leaving her in pain if she won't get better.

 

[bonny]

Lots of horses injure tendons and come right. They need time more than anything, your horse sounds like a year in a field is the answer, I would stop looking for improvements just now and get her out as soon as you can. Don’t box rest her any longer, just turn her out.

 

[Birker2020]

Lots of horses injure tendons and come right. They need time more than anything, your horse sounds like a year in a field is the answer, I would stop looking for improvements just now and get her out as soon as you can. Don’t box rest her any longer, just turn her out.

Like Bonny said these things take time, ice therapy at the start can really help accelerate healing but its too late for that now.

Best thing is turnout if you have nothing to lose and also look at maintenance bute for pain relief. Its cheaper if you get a price match from your vet via prescription. It was 64p per sachet on E-vet against the vets £1.15 at one point.

 

[Carlosmum]

To answer your Thread title directly, I don't think there is ever a 'wrong' time to PTS. For what ever reason that is necessary for the owner/carer, it might be in the horses interest it might be in the owners interest. Surely it cant be wrong if it saves either (particularly the animal ) from suffering?

 

[Cragrat]

Horses don't know about PTS. it simply ends, or prevents, their suffering.

As has been said, tendons can take a huge amount of time, amd she has only 4 months so far. But lengthy box rest can be horrible for a horse - how is she coping? Does she have company? Is she allowed hand walks? if you can't get turnout yet on your yard, could you find a grass livery/ rehab yard that could take her for a year?

 

[SEL]

A friend of mine has a very flashy well bred warmblood that damaged his tendon badly. I found him on 3 legs in the field and thought he'd broken the leg.

He did months of box rest without improvement and got harder and harder to manage. They opted for a retirement livery place with acres of decent turnout. He's roughed off well and moving ok. It's not healed by a long shot but also not got worse. The horses are checked at least daily (usually other owners are up too) so any lameness would be reported back quickly. If you can find somewhere appropriate it might be worth a shot.

Saying that I've recently put a pony to sleep and from their point of view they know nothing. Stressful for us, but he spent the morning stuffing his face and was gorging on a likit when the vet sedated. I found the vet very supportive when I talked through options xx

 

[Errin Paddywack]

How old is she? My friends 14hh mare ruptured a tendon very badly, must have been late teens I think. She did eventually come sound but with a very thickened leg. She was never fit to do much again and the other leg gradually went the same way. She was kept on very restricted turnout but eventually the vet advised PTS so she was given a day in the field, came in with the tendon pulled right off the knee and the leg flapping. That was an extreme case, not suggesting it might happen to yours.

 

[TPO]

To answer your Thread title directly, I don't think there is ever a 'wrong' time to PTS. For what ever reason that is necessary for the owner/carer, it might be in the horses interest it might be in the owners interest. Surely it cant be wrong if it saves either (particularly the animal ) from suffering?

This

Also, reading between the lines and possibly got the wrong end of the stick, it sounds like even if she recovers the best prognosis is that she will be a light hack and that tou don't think that would be a suitable life/job for her? If you don't want/need a light hack it becomes even trickier because she doesn't sound like the easiest type of horse to rehome to a light hacking home and there's always thr worry that people would be tempted to do more than that with her.

It's a horrible position to be in but I think the fact that you even posted this thread is a sign that you are leaning towards pts.

As @Carlosmum said there is no bad time.

 

[Pegasus5531]

Horses don't know about PTS. it simply ends, or prevents, their suffering.

As has been said, tendons can take a huge amount of time, and she has only 4 months so far. But lengthy box rest can be horrible for a horse - how is she coping? Does she have company? Is she allowed hand walks? if you can't get turnout yet on your yard, could you find a grass livery/ rehab yard that could take her for a year?

She was coping ok initially it's quite a busy yard so she has a lot to see but she started fighting over the wall with the horse in the next stable and kicked a panel of the wall through so she has had to move to a more isolated stable. Vet said no hand grazing, turnout or short walks of any kind as it hadn't shown much improvement on the last scan. I think next step may be to sedate her. I'm happy to retire her if she will retire comfortably in a field but I've been told by the vets and others that it will probably damage again which really concerns me. It's a severe tear from the top to the bottom so no hope of any kind of surgery. It's very frustrating and upsetting as she has always been a really gentle and relaxed horse to handle, if she seemed happier and calmer I would just be thinking of retiring her but I'm so worried she will be in pain or unhappy. I suppose I posted hoping for other peoples experiences good or bad in the hopes that it would make me feel better about either decision.

 

[Pegasus5531]

How old is she? My friends 14hh mare ruptured a tendon very badly, must have been late teens I think. She did eventually come sound but with a very thickened leg. She was never fit to do much again and the other leg gradually went the same way. She was kept on very restricted turnout but eventually the vet advised PTS so she was given a day in the field, came in with the tendon pulled right off the knee and the leg flapping. That was an extreme case, not suggesting it might happen to yours.

She'll be 14 this year

 

[Pegasus5531]

This

Also, reading between the lines and possibly got the wrong end of the stick, it sounds like even if she recovers the best prognosis is that she will be a light hack and that tou don't think that would be a suitable life/job for her? If you don't want/need a light hack it becomes even trickier because she doesn't sound like the easiest type of horse to rehome to a light hacking home and there's always thr worry that people would be tempted to do more than that with her.

It's a horrible position to be in but I think the fact that you even posted this thread is a sign that you are leaning towards pts.

As @Carlosmum said there is no bad time.

I wouldn't want to rehome her, if she were able to keep going for anything even just retirement I'd keep her myself. She could have a job as a light hack with us as my mum is at the age now where she just likes to potter out every now and then. She has always been hot and very forward in the past but safe with traffic etc. The vets advised that because of the injury if she was ever sound enough to hack she would slow down a lot and not be as lively but she just seems to be getting more so at the moment. This could be due to the box rest though I suppose.

 

[Birker2020]

Saying that I've recently put a pony to sleep and from their point of view they know nothing. Stressful for us, but he spent the morning stuffing his face and was gorging on a likit when the vet sedated. I found the vet very supportive when I talked through options xx

Sorry for your loss

OP I don't know what to suggest other than another period of confinement with light sedation and an agreed length of time for her to recover and then a decision made on a follow up scan.

Not a nice position to be in at all.

 

[Pegasus5531]

A friend of mine has a very flashy well bred warmblood that damaged his tendon badly. I found him on 3 legs in the field and thought he'd broken the leg.

He did months of box rest without improvement and got harder and harder to manage. They opted for a retirement livery place with acres of decent turnout. He's roughed off well and moving ok. It's not healed by a long shot but also not got worse. The horses are checked at least daily (usually other owners are up too) so any lameness would be reported back quickly. If you can find somewhere appropriate it might be worth a shot.

Saying that I've recently put a pony to sleep and from their point of view they know nothing. Stressful for us, but he spent the morning stuffing his face and was gorging on a likit when the vet sedated. I found the vet very supportive when I talked through options xx

Thank you it's helpful to know that your friends retired well but also to know that you recently had an ok experience of PTS. I'm down about it as my old gelding that I'd had since childhood had to be put down a couple of years ago due to various health issues and old age generally, I had hoped I wouldn't have to go through the whole ordeal for a good few years yet with my mare only being 14. Very sorry for your loss x

 

[Pegasus5531]

Sorry for your loss

OP I don't know what to suggest other than another period of confinement with light sedation and an agreed length of time for her to recover and then a decision made on a follow up scan.

Not a nice position to be in at all.

I think that may be what we have to do, I would like to give her the best chance of recovery possible and it's reassuring to hear other people have had success with turning away. I just worry as she can be a bit accident prone, she's her own worst enemy and is one of those horses that always seems to know how to injure itself. I'll speak to the vet about sedation and see how long it will be before we can realistically look at some turn out for her and then I suppose see what happens from there. Hopefully she can retire happily.

 

[Melody Grey]

Another vote here for turn away for 12 months and see what you have. If she injures herself again/ further whilst turned away, then that’s a conclusion in itself- she most probably wouldn’t have stood up to work.
Hope she comes good for you though!

 

[laura_nash]

I suppose I posted hoping for other peoples experiences good or bad in the hopes that it would make me feel better about either decision.

I had a friend who took on a hunt horse with a similar sounding injury, had also done months of box rest without any progress. They were going to PTS but friend needed a companion and knew the groom who was very fond of him and talked her into taking him. I think he was about 15/16 then. She paid a pound for him and was clear she would PTS if she felt he was unhappy.

Horse had maybe 2 years of out 24/7 playing with her nutty old boy on their decent sized, hilly fields, with hardstanding access in winter, and then came sound, though the leg looked horrible. She bought him back into work and he was a light hack for at least 3 years without any issues, I rode him once and he was still pretty forward going and seemed 100%. I then moved and lost touch.

 

[EmmaC78]

I'd turn away for a year too. My horse damaged a ligament in 2020 and he went for various tests, scans etc and the vets were not that optimistic about a recovery. I chucked him in a field for a year, got the physio once a month and he trotted up sound 14 months later. Sometimes a bit of time is all that is needed.

 

[Marigold4]

Another one for either PTS or turn out. Prolonged box rest is very tough mentally on both the horse and you. I have found vets to often move the goal posts for box rest - they say 4 weeks, then add more, then more. They are unwilling to take the risk of saying turn the horse out for its own sanity as if the tendon tears again, it can come back on them. If the horse is kicking its walls in the stable it might injure the tendon again on box rest.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Has your vet offered any kind of treatment? There is so much they can do now its just box rest alone is often not enough for a tendon or ligament to heal especially if its a particularly bad tear or damage.

I think as she is 14 I would turn away in a proper herd grass livery environment to give her the best chance for 6 months to a year, it may be all she needs and if not we'll at least you can say you tried

I had a mare that had a ddft injury in the back of her pastern, it wasn't particularly bad but she kept re injuring it, so then scar tissue builds up around the injury and its not as strong as healthy tissue so after a while it breaks down and your back to square one.

Unfortunately steroids were her only option but she has cushings and ems so she couldn't have them so I retired her.

There are so many treatments now though like stem cell prp and shock wave are all used for tendons.

 

[Pegasus5531]

Another one for either PTS or turn out. Prolonged box rest is very tough mentally on both the horse and you. I have found vets to often move the goal posts for box rest - they say 4 weeks, then add more, then more. They are unwilling to take the risk of saying turn the horse out for its own sanity as if the tendon tears again, it can come back on them. If the horse is kicking its walls in the stable it might injure the tendon again on box rest.

This is one of the things that I have found stressful so far. Initially the vets said box rest for two months and then start rehab as in short walks in hand and gradually build up. But then they came out again and keep extending the box rest and can't give a light at the end of the tunnel really. I know it's not their fault and every injury is different so they have to work with what they've got but emotionally it's very difficult to think we are working to some kind of solution and then for the box rest just to be extended. Especially when she is hating it now.

 

[Birker2020]

This is one of the things that I have found stressful so far. Initially the vets said box rest for two months and then start rehab as in short walks in hand and gradually build up. But then they came out again and keep extending the box rest and can't give a light at the end of the tunnel really. I know it's not their fault and every injury is different so they have to work with what they've got but emotionally it's very difficult to think we are working to some kind of solution and then for the box rest just to be extended. Especially when she is hating it now.

I know how that feels, its frustrating and you get very disillusioned with it all.

 

[Pegasus5531]

Has your vet offered any kind of treatment? There is so much they can do now its just box rest alone is often not enough for a tendon or ligament to heal especially if its a particularly bad tear or damage.

I think as she is 14 I would turn away in a proper herd grass livery environment to give her the best chance for 6 months to a year, it may be all she needs and if not we'll at least you can say you tried

I had a mare that had a ddft injury in the back of her pastern, it wasn't particularly bad but she kept re injuring it, so then scar tissue builds up around the injury and its not as strong as healthy tissue so after a while it breaks down and your back to square one.

Unfortunately steroids were her only option but she has cushings and ems so she couldn't have them so I retired her.

There are so many treatments now though like stem cell prp and shock wave are all used for tendons.

I asked about stem cell therapy or other treatments but they said that because its such a severe tear it wouldn't be effective, they said if it was a hole in the tendon then they could have tried it. "hanging on by a few fibres" was how it was described.

 

[Birker2020]

I asked about stem cell therapy or other treatments but they said that because its such a severe tear it wouldn't be effective, they said if it was a hole in the tendon then they could have tried it. "hanging on by a few fibres" was how it was described.

That's rubbish. So sorry.

Could you sit out another couple of months of box rest and at least turn out when grass is better and mud is less? Then hopefully she will be too busy eating to be worried about galloping around. You can always sedate to start with.

 

[marmalade76]

Have you considered trying something like ArcEquine or Indiba? Might be worth a try before turning her out?

 

[Pinkvboots]

Maybe ask about what marmalade has suggested failing that I would turn away at a last ditch attempt what a crap situation to be in.

 

[Pegasus5531]

Thanks all for your advice and sympathies. It's such a difficult situation and I'm having a hard time elsewhere too, I lost my Border Terrier on Friday he was 18 years old and had been my companion all that time accompanying me round the yard, shows and work. I've got an appointment for my mare on Thursday so will discuss with the vets the possibility of turning away if she looks well enough as ideally that is what I would like for her if she will be comfortable. This is the hard side of having animals I suppose but the good times definitely make up for it

 

[Birker2020]

Thanks all for your advice and sympathies. It's such a difficult situation and I'm having a hard time elsewhere too, I lost my Border Terrier on Friday he was 18 years old and had been my companion all that time accompanying me round the yard, shows and work. I've got an appointment for my mare on Thursday so will discuss with the vets the possibility of turning away if she looks well enough as ideally that is what I would like for her if she will be comfortable. This is the hard side of having animals I suppose but the good times definitely make up for it

So sorry about your little dog, 18 years what a long and happy life he had with you by the sounds of it, you must be so upset, like losing part of you after all that time. I hope you have happier news on Thursday and that she can be comfortable turned away. Huge hugs x

 

[Cragrat]

You really are having a tough time Pegasus. I hope it goes as well as it can tomorrow. Let us know

 

[Pinkvboots]

So sorry about your dog x

I hope you get good news on your mare.

 

[Trouper]

If when your vet comes again it turns out that box rest is not making any improvement, then I would certainly consider turning away before I reached the pts stage. I might wait another few weeks and hope the weather turns a bit kinder and then turn out with sedation.
She will regulate herself/pain levels far better mooching round a field than doing any in-hand walk when she can't tell you to "stop, give me a breather as it is hurting". Yes - there is always the risk that she may get spooked by something and cause a catastrophe but at least you will know you have tried to give her some better quality of life before having to make the ultimate decision.
A horrible time for you.