How do you rate the extendable leads?

[thewonderhorse]

Flexi leads and haltis have their place. I use a halti on my GSD but would never consider using a flexi lead because he pulls like a train.

 

[Alec Swan]

whilst I appreciate what you are saying, some of us dog owners are doing the best we can . I don't profess to be any sort of expert but have had dogs all my life and all were excellent on recall so never need to resort to a flexi lead...HOWEVER, my lurcher has a very high prey drive and is my first dog with dodgy recall and I am not confident that I can get her back when she gets wind of deer or hare so I use the flexi lead on occasions.. it seems that you are looking down on anyone who cannot train their dog to police or shepherd standards!!!!!!

I NEVER look down on others. I'm simply not qualified. The point that I'm trying, and failing, to get across is that dog training is really and simply summed up as, centering around cause-and-effect.

To rely upon tools with which to prevent a dog doing, what it wants to do, has nothing to do with training. By containing a dog, we are simply physically stopping it from doing as it pleases.

When we have a dog which listens to us, and complies with our wishes, because that's what we WANT, then we are imposing our will on a dog, or to put it another way, we are TRAINING the dog.

Of course there will be breed and ability constraints. There are some dogs, all so often terriers (the little darlings!), and attempting to have them walking off the lead, at heal and in a public place, would try the patience of any one. Similarly, there are those who simply don't have the wish or the ability to have a dog which is obedient. I understand the limitations. My argument isn't concerned with those who are for what ever reason unable to train a dog. My argument is with those who could, if they wished, have an obedient and compliant dog which is a pleasure to own, and a dog, importantly which walks to heal, correctly, and without the training aids that every pet shop in the country tells us, is a vital bit of kit. It isn't, bin the aids, and 'train your dog', is where I'm coming from. Not in every case, but in the vast majority, it can be done!

Alec.

ets, and in an attempt to further explain, why is it do you suppose, that there are so many dogs, which 'indoors' are perfectly compliant and obedient, but 'outdoors', are a nightmare? Why is it that we don't put a lead on a dog indoors, but we do outdoors? Any thoughts?

 

[twiggy2]

whilst I appreciate what you are saying, some of us dog owners are doing the best we can . I don't profess to be any sort of expert but have had dogs all my life and all were excellent on recall so never need to resort to a flexi lead...HOWEVER, my lurcher has a very high prey drive and is my first dog with dodgy recall and I am not confident that I can get her back when she gets wind of deer or hare so I use the flexi lead on occasions.. it seems that you are looking down on anyone who cannot train their dog to police or shepherd standards!!!!!!

If my dogs had the poor manners/aggression/nervousness of many of the police dogs I have seen/handled/worked with over years I would be ashamed. I would never used a check/choke chain either but it is still a commonly used peice of kit by the police.

I would also not treat a dog the way many working collies are raised-not all but many are kept fairly isolated and without much visual stimulation when young.

I have great admiration for the dogs that I see out there working but I do not always agree with the raising and training methods used to reach the end goal

 

[splashgirl45]

alec, I am sorry but you have given the impression that you are an expert and anyone who has problems with a dog is a numpty. I have been able to train all of my previous dogs over the last 50 years to be obedient off and on lead , I currently have 2 dogs, a collie cross who is obedient on and off lead and a lurcher who is obedient on lead but not off( in certain circumstances)...this is the first dog I haven't been able to recall if chasing prey.....she is obedient recalling from other dogs and cats but not what she considers to be prey. so for me the flexi lead is useful.. it is not a training aid but a useful type of lead for some situations,which is my reply to the headline of the post..

 

[stencilface]

How do you train a dog you got as an older rescue to be good on the lead? He pulls less on the flexi, only pulls if he wants to be off after something. His recall is ok, but not if there's something more interesting happening. I can get a good heel if I have treats, but I'll be honest I don't have the inclination to take them all the time, plus for him rabbits/squirrel/deer are far more interesting than me or food.

I can do the thing where when they pull, you walk the other way a la Victoria stillwell, but honestly with a strong dog who loves life (ESP the small furry kind!) it's hard. We went to the beach on sat, usually a very safe place for him off lead (we pick quieter beaches with no kids playing with footballs etc, another thing he loves!) and run like a loony, you have tennis ball you're onto a winner. But then out of nowhere a horse rider came galloping past :eek3: this time he came back, I think he didn't have the energy to give chase after so much tennis ball fun, but my heart was in my mouth! He wouldn't do anything to th horse, he just likes the chase!

 

[Alec Swan]

Deleted!

Alec.

 

[AmyMay]

If a dog is to learn to be compliant and obedient, then it's the owner's/handler's persona and voice which is used to form a bond with the animal, and not an 'aid'. Eventually all dogs have to 'listen' to us, so why delay, or even abandon the process by using physical restraints rather than forming a bond of compliance with the dog?

Alec.

Alec, I 100% agree with you.

But - I am new to dog owning and haven't built up the experience that you and many others have, and whilst recall is not bad with our 7 month old puppy, it's no where near 100%.

We walk her off the lead 90% of the time, safely and happily - but there are occasions where I want her on a lead, but don't need her to be close to me (think beach, with lots of holiday makers who don't necessarily share the in the fuffy love.....).

 

[CorvusCorax]

I was never a huge fan of them for general walking, especially for dogs that pull, as they are then essentially useless as you have no control, or in urban settings/close to busy roads.

My dog responds to voice control and I use one for the likes of toilet trips in unfamiliar areas where I have no idea what is around the corner, I am not going to take a chance with my dog getting run over or trampled by a horse or getting into a ding dong with another dog.

Like a lot of tools they can help create a physical link to a verbal command/help build muscle memory and then can be phased out once the exercise or the command is solid.

Plenty of top trainers use them and if you go to the world championships in my own discipline you will see plenty of big names pottering around the car park with their dogs on flexi leads.

I assume those against training aids ride without saddles, bridles, bits, don't use lunge lines, sticks, spurs etc!!

ETA - to the OP, you're not going to be able to change much in two weeks if the behaviour is engrained....with a dog with no recall, I spent months with him on a lunge line and ended up just walking him on lead because his prey drive was too strong to be reliable - after almost a year of good recall, he buggered off for half an hour and the consequences could have been disastrous.
When teaching lead manners, when he pulled, we went nowhere. It took a long time and walks weren't much fun for either of us for a while, but we came to an agreement. Dogs will do whatever makes life easiest for them.

 

[Kaylum]

Btw the police use long leads and harnesses naughty dog training professionals for using aids. Drug dogs are the same it's whatever suits they can get hold of a dog quicker with a harness if needs be.

 

[Alec Swan]

........

I assume those against training aids ride without saddles, bridles, bits, don't use lunge lines, sticks, spurs etc!!

.........

I was waiting for that, or similar! Have you watched Jean-Francois Pignon? If he can do it, then so can you!

Clearly, and to be serious, dogs and horses are entirely different species and with totally different rationales. Dogs and horses both serve man but from opposing standpoints. The human voice, to a dog is all that it needs, to a horse, the nuances of seat, leg and hand positions are the influences which direct the animal's thought patterns and directions. Strangely, dogs also react to our body language, I accept, and it can be a very useful tool, but that probably wont be a discussion for this forum!

Alec.

 

[CorvusCorax]

If I want a quicker recall or a straighter jump or a more direct pick-up, I can help physically direct a dog with a line, linked to my voice, and then phase that out after many repetitions.
I don't think either of them 'serve' us per se, I think they behave in the way that gets them what they want, be that a ball, toy, food, a good hooley or release of pressure, and we shape that to our own needs. They also shape it to their own needs, in many cases again, that might be another debate for another day.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Strangely, dogs also react to our body languag

Alec.

Loooooong before we speak.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I dont use an extendable lead but I do use a long line on my foster dogs, not my dogs but my responsibility so I am extremely careful, they drag it about so giving the illusion of freedom but I can step in if it looks like they are going to hoon off. I actually have atm a dog of a friends staying with me, she is a terrier and would whip down a badger sett at any chance, she also goes on the long line and I make sure we dont walk in any fields with badger setts.

Im using a Canny Collar on Diesel atm, he had a cruciate op 6weeks ago today so is just allowed toilet breaks on the lead, for a high energy dog to be confined to box rest he is raring to go. Its important that he remains quiet so the Canny Collar has been invaluable. If anyone has had a horse on box rest for any length of time Im guessing they are not leading it out on a head collar but a bridle for more control and to stop the horse from doing itself any mischief.

I dont pretend to be a dog trainer but Im sensible and I wouldnt dream of poo pooing anyone who uses any of the numerous aids that are available, they are a godsend for a lot of people who might not be as fit and young as they were and if it makes their life and their dogs life easier who am I to judge.

 

[Wiz201]

Have you ever seen a Police dog handler using such equipment? When was the last time that you saw a shepherd with a dog on a flexi lead, or worse a halti? Have you ever run a dog in a sheep dog trial? Have you ever even attended and watched a sheep dog trial? Have you ever kept a sheep dog and used it for its intended purpose? Do you have any experience with working gundogs? Have you ever watched an obedience test?

I suspect that your experience of 'good professional dog trainers' is limited to those who tell you how competent they are, rather than demonstrating the fact. I'm not having a go at you wiz201, on the contrary, I suspect that you may have been misled, because from the list above which I've given you, I haven't seen one example of a gimmick/training aid being used, ever.

If a dog is to learn to be compliant and obedient, then it's the owner's/handler's persona and voice which is used to form a bond with the animal, and not an 'aid'. Eventually all dogs have to 'listen' to us, so why delay, or even abandon the process by using physical restraints rather than forming a bond of compliance with the dog?

Alec.

I never said a flexi lead is a training aid

 

[paisley]

Strangely, dogs also react to our body language,

Alec.

This. In buckets. I didn't even realise early on how sensitive my lurcher was to my body language. Now its something I use as much as voice commands

 

[Alec Swan]

This. In buckets. I didn't even realise early on how sensitive my lurcher was to my body language. Now its something I use as much as voice commands

Few have such an understanding. Well done you.

I have a collie dog, and he lives on a chain (it's what he prefers). When I'm with my spaniels, 150 yards away from him, but within sight, he stands and watches. If I face him, with my head bowed and inspecting my toes, but peering from under my eyebrows, he just stands. If I raise my face, he wags his tail. If I turn through 90 degrees, and then watch him from the corner of my eye, he just stands, as soon as I turn my face towards him, again, his tail wags.

I always thought that 150 yards was a long way for a dog to recognise or react to faces, or implied glances. It seems that I was wrong.

'Distance' body language is an interesting subject, but again, perhaps not a discussion for here.

Alec.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's how they are so good at reading your mood they look at your stance .
I tested this with my older lab she can read me acting happy or sad .
I don't do it with her now when I realised it was mean to tease her .
She's a hoot she had recognise with set of car keys I have and run to the right vehicle.

 

[NinjaPony]

Proper flexi leads are very useful. I use a normal lead for training, and around the yard, and a flexi for walks. Means I can lock it short on roads, and let my tiny, flighty papillon have a proper run around in the park/fields/bridlepaths whilst knowing she is safe. I also take her out on a really long line, but that's a faff on roads and in busy places. Only ever use it on a harness, other wise I think it puts way too much pressure on the neck.

 

[twiggy2]

I have a collie dog, and he lives on a chain (it's what he prefers).

Alec.

brings me back to the tools that each of us choose to use, I would never have dog 'live on a chain' never have and have lived on farms without fencing, my dogs have always chosen to stay in the same area as myself- one had to be put in a run with shelter if we went out as he would wander if no-one was home but that did allow him more freedom of movement than a chain and meant there was no risk of injury from being tethered

 

[Goldenstar]

We have had two people on here posting who have been bitten by dogs on extendable leads and that to me is the biggest issue with them they are used by too many people as a alternative to dealing with bad behaviour .
Rather than deal with bad recall they use an extendable lead , rather than take reasonability for an aggressive dog they put it on a extendable and think it's ok .

 

[MurphysMinder]

Proper flexi leads are very useful. I use a normal lead for training, and around the yard, and a flexi for walks. Means I can lock it short on roads, and let my tiny, flighty papillon have a proper run around in the park/fields/bridlepaths whilst knowing she is safe. I also take her out on a really long line, but that's a faff on roads and in busy places. Only ever use it on a harness, other wise I think it puts way too much pressure on the neck.

Personally I would never use a flexi on a road, I have heard of the lock failing on more than one occasion, it's a 2 second job to swap to a normal lead for road work.

 

[LittleMonster]

I use a flexi lead... And i don't really care what others think, it works for us and i have never had a problem.
I use the wide fabric ones and i hardly have any pulling ect as she listens to what i say/how i say it.
I find it helpful and i could probably walk R without a lead everywhere but i won't risk that so Flexi lead it is.
Saying this i have a collection of leads and some are for certain places we go for walks.

But each to there own.

 

[Cedars]

I use a flexi lead for BigDog whilst LittleDog is off lead - if they need to be on lead then I keep BigDog on the flexi because I can lock it so much shorter than the other lead so he actually heels!

I know people hate them, but without them he simply wouldn't get the exercise he needs as he just cannot be off lead - everything else is far too interesting to come back when called.

We also have a good understanding of the length of the lead and how far he can go - he doesn't get socked in the neck, ever, because he knows at what point he can't go any further (though clearly he had to test this a few times to learn it!).

I think people can be very judgemental. Clearly if people or animals are being caught up in them then that's just rude, but that would be the same with a lunge line or equivalent.

 

[stencilface]

Ours does not pull on the flexi at all (unless wanting to chase something, but only for a second then) and there's no way I'm putting a GSD x Rottie in a harness, not unless I want him to pull a sled!!!

In fact, I can't put him on the flexi if I know he's going to pull, as imho, you cannot get a good enough grip of the plastic handle - if I know he's going to pull I'll wear a training lead so I can put my wrist through and grip with my hand, far safer imho. I need to work on the pulling, but its not all the time, and he just loves life so much.

This post has made me think about doing more work in the garden on recall though

 

[Tiddlypom]

I have a collie dog, and he lives on a chain (it's what he prefers).

Each to their own, but I would never do this to a dog, not least because of the risk of it strangling itself.

Judicious use of a Flexi lead, in appropriate situations, seems small fry in comparison to a chained up dog .

 

[thewonderhorse]

.I have a collie dog, and he lives on a chain (it's what he prefers). Alec.

He might prefer to live outside but i cant believe he prefers to live on a chain?! Off subject i know.

 

[MrsElle]

I use a Flexi on Lodger Dog (bosses dog who stays occasionally). He usually has the run of the 5000 acre estate, and knows every inch of it, but we can't let him roam at will when guests are in the holiday properties. Our own pup just toddles along happily without a lead when we walk on the estate, but I do use the Flexi with him on the beach. He does have a normal lead on when on the streets, but that is a rare occasion with so much open land to explore. In fact I think he has only been out in the village once, so the Flexi has been used on pup more often as we go to the beach a couple of times a week.

They have their place if used sensibly.

 

[Toffee44]

The proper flexis have these handles. Not comfortable but I only have to cover very small stretches of road and then back on footpaths. So I hold through the handle and the loop therefore not relying on the lock and my dog walks to heel on the road on a loose tension.

 

[stargirl88]

I had a really fun time walking a ladies border terrier on a flexi today. The best bit was when he danced circles around me while the lock failed to work!!!

I think they are OK on sensible dogs that mooch about rather than the ones that tend to bounce and run around. As someone said - lunge lines are the best!!

 

[minesadouble]

I would never use one but do sometimes use a long line when retrieve training and our pup gets a bit too enthusiastic! We get pro help with gundog training and our trainer cannot abide flexi leads/harnesses/halties pretty much anything other than a bog standard lead. I have had dogs all of my life but this is the first time I have gone to a professional trainer and honestly I would reccomend it to anyone. Not only does it help massively in trainng terms it is also great fun and makes you view your dog in a completely different way.