How do you stop a dog going to ground

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Dobiegirl

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Had a frantic phone call from a friend who has a rescue dog which looks like a Norfolk X which had gone to ground in a disused badger sett in their garden boundary. She had been down there for 45mins and theycould hear her barking and were desperate to get her out. I said I would come straight up with Pip who is this dogs friends and some squeeky toys and hope to get her out.Well a long story cut short we got her out and she was non the worse for her adventure (she is 14months old). The thing is this isnt the first time and they are terrified she will go to ground and encounter a badger and being only tiny and young will be no match for a badger. So how do you stop a dog going to ground? their garden hedge is littered with setts and its an offence to block them. Ive said to fence off that part of the garden but she will do the same on walks also. So apart from a long line on her when walking is their a foolproof method of training her to stop.
 
I'm interested in any ideas to this problem too as my terrier does exactly the same. I'm resigned to walking her forever on a flexi lead!
 
I wonder if they could train her to "find it" and then come back to them for a treat. So working out in the garden with their setts, give the command and when the dog finds the sett reward?
Knowing terriers I have no idea if that will work when the blood is up, but perhaps with something high value enough (be it treats/ball etc) she can train it to identify the sett but then to come back to her to look for the reward?

Just musings, have to be honest I've never tried it.

That said, I have two terriers and live on a farm with various holes/setts and they don't go down nor show much interest unless I draw their interest to it. I wonder how that came about? Fluke I think :D
 
It is impossible to completely train out what has been bred in.

Not what you want to hear I know, and with the ridiculous Badger Act, if the dog gets stuck you cannot dig to it.

I think the only lawful thing you can do is fence your terrier away from the setts.
 
Why buy a terrier or any other breed for that matter if you don't like what they are bred for?
It's their natural instinct to work, you can't blame them at all, just remove temptation from them and expect to have miserable dogs.
Not the dog's fault at all just people that don't think or think they know better.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine, very unfair on the dogs themselves.
 
We got one of those cone shaped collars they have to stop them getting at stitches etc after an op. Our terrier was forever hedge running and we knew she would end up down a hole so now every walk she has the collar on and she can be off the lead. After getting stuck in a hedge the first time out she has never bothered again and it would be difficult for her to squeeze down a hole with one on! Do get some comments out walking as people think she must be poorly! but it works!
 
Maesfen said:
Why buy a terrier or any other breed for that matter if you don't like what they are bred for?
It's their natural instinct to work, you can't blame them at all, just remove temptation from them and expect to have miserable dogs.
Not the dog's fault at all just people that don't think or think they know better.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine, very unfair on the dogs themselves.
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The dog is a rescue and they have no idea how she is bred, its just a guess she is a Norfolk x.
I dont agree with your take on it, lots of breeds are bred for a specific job and no longer do it, dosnt make them miserable dogs.
 
goldypops said:
We got one of those cone shaped collars they have to stop them getting at stitches etc after an op. Our terrier was forever hedge running and we knew she would end up down a hole so now every walk she has the collar on and she can be off the lead. After getting stuck in a hedge the first time out she has never bothered again and it would be difficult for her to squeeze down a hole with one on! Do get some comments out walking as people think she must be poorly! but it works!
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Thats a good idea and certainly worth a try, I will suggest it to them.
 
Maesfen said:
Why buy a terrier or any other breed for that matter if you don't like what they are bred for?
It's their natural instinct to work, you can't blame them at all, just remove temptation from them and expect to have miserable dogs.
Not the dog's fault at all just people that don't think or think they know better.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine, very unfair on the dogs themselves.
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I don't agree either, that's like saying a staffy that isn't hanging off a bulls nose is an unhappy staffy :confused:

Sometimes, for the health and safety of the dog, it's better to train out of them their natural instincts. I don't agree we should blithely stand by and let our dogs do what their instincts tell them just because they enjoy it! Mine lap up chicken/sheep/horse crap but WE humans know, it's not that clever.:rolleyes:
 
BoolavogueDC said:
Sometimes, for the health and safety of the dog, it's better to train out of them their natural instincts. .:rolleyes:
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Having bred working terriers for 30 years my husband is rolling with laughter at this comment.

I cannot quote what he has just said, but Maesfen will certainly be able to guess.
 
I disagree too I'm afraid, I dont use my terriers below ground, they work but above ground and the last thing I want is for them to go to ground, quite frankly its a PITA and a worry I could do without. Mine NEVER go below ground Dobiegirl.....I expect you can guess how that was achieved :o
 
AdorableAlice said:
Having bred working terriers for 30 years my husband is rolling with laughter at this comment.

I cannot quote what he has just said, but Maesfen will certainly be able to guess.
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Good for him :D

Will you ask him to come and give my dogs some therapy please? They don't go down setts/holes at home and I'm sure they are most depressed by un naturalness of it all :)
 
AdorableAlice said:
Having bred working terriers for 30 years my husband is rolling with laughter at this comment.

I cannot quote what he has just said, but Maesfen will certainly be able to guess.
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JC_goodpost.gif


In a word - yes!
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AdorableAlice said:
It is impossible to completely train out what has been bred in.

Not what you want to hear I know, and with the ridiculous Badger Act, if the dog gets stuck you cannot dig to it.

I think the only lawful thing you can do is fence your terrier away from the setts.
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I've known dogs to get stuck down setts and successfully dug out with the assitance of our local fire brigade I might add. The police haven't come knocking yet.
 
blazingsaddles said:
I've known dogs to get stuck down setts and successfully dug out with the assitance of our local fire brigade I might add. The police haven't come knocking yet.
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A bred for purpose fit working terrier will rarely get stuck and an experienced terrier man will know where the dog is using various methods.

However, a fireside pet terrier is in all sorts of trouble to ground and will often die due to heat exhaustion. A pet terrier will not hold a pig for the length of time the fire brigade will take to find the dog and/or dig to him. I doubt many of you have ever seen the damage a pig can inflict on a terrier or indeed a Charlie.

It is also worthwhile pointing out that where you see your pet go to ground has no relation on where he will be within minutes. Setts and earths are often huge and the dog could easily be a 100 yards away or more in the time it takes to make a call for help.

The thread is light hearted and needs to stay that way, but I feel pet terrier owners need to realise their pet to ground can be heartbreaking and it is important to take any measures you can to prevent their in bred instinct getting them into trouble. A lead is really the only 100% safe answer. Of course there will be many terriers with no wish to go to ground, many are bred to be pets and have no working strain left in them and a few will be cowardly or timid and will make wonderful companion dogs. It may be worthwhile doing careful research before buying a terrier puppy. Many working terrier breeders will not sell to pet homes.

There is a specific group of professional terrier man who will attend a rescue. It is not information I would put on an open forum, but the help is there.

Now I think I have cracked the TB problem, I could deal with the pigs over the back legally, just let the boys and girls go awol, leave enough time to get the job done, and call the fire brigade. Up for that Maesfen ?
 
Yes I have seen the damage a terrier can sustain from a badger and fox having worked for a hunt for many years.

The dog I posted about belongs to a friend and is a rescue and the reason I posted because of the knowledge I have re the above.

I have suggested a longline to her but this is in her garden hence the difficulty, as far as Im concerned this is not a light hearted thread but one seeking suggestions to stop this dog going to ground.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Having bred working terriers for 30 years my husband is rolling with laughter at this comment.

I cannot quote what he has just said, but Maesfen will certainly be able to guess.
Click to expand...

Tell your husband I will be raising my glass to him this evening! More than that, I don't think I'd better say!:D:D:D
 
AdorableAlice said:
A bred for purpose fit working terrier will rarely get stuck and an experienced terrier man will know where the dog is using various methods.

However, a fireside pet terrier is in all sorts of trouble to ground and will often die due to heat exhaustion. A pet terrier will not hold a pig for the length of time the fire brigade will take to find the dog and/or dig to him. I doubt many of you have ever seen the damage a pig can inflict on a terrier or indeed a Charlie.

It is also worthwhile pointing out that where you see your pet go to ground has no relation on where he will be within minutes. Setts and earths are often huge and the dog could easily be a 100 yards away or more in the time it takes to make a call for help.

The thread is light hearted and needs to stay that way, but I feel pet terrier owners need to realise their pet to ground can be heartbreaking and it is important to take any measures you can to prevent their in bred instinct getting them into trouble. A lead is really the only 100% safe answer. Of course there will be many terriers with no wish to go to ground, many are bred to be pets and have no working strain left in them and a few will be cowardly or timid and will make wonderful companion dogs. It may be worthwhile doing careful research before buying a terrier puppy. Many working terrier breeders will not sell to pet homes.

There is a specific group of professional terrier man who will attend a rescue. It is not information I would put on an open forum, but the help is there.

Now I think I have cracked the TB problem, I could deal with the pigs over the back legally, just let the boys and girls go awol, leave enough time to get the job done, and call the fire brigade. Up for that Maesfen ?
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Your husband could be a terrierman extraordinaire and get a gold at the Olympics for all I care. I was disagreeing with your statement that dogs stuck down a sett couldn't be dug out. They can.

Just to add, Not all 'pet' terrier owners are imbeciles and are fully aware of the damage a badger can do.
 
blazingsaddles said:
Your husband could be a terrierman extraordinaire and get a gold at the Olympics for all I care. I was disagreeing with your statement that dogs stuck down a sett couldn't be dug out. They can.

Just to add, Not all 'pet' terrier owners are imbeciles and are fully aware of the damage a badger can do.
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It is illegal to dig a badger sett without a licence from DEFRA. The best way to prevent facing the problem is keep the dog on a lead.

I am not too bothered what you think of my husband, but I can assure you I have seen many an owner sobbing when he has handed their dead dog back to them after 48 hours of effort to find and save it because they owner was daft enough to let it run free in an unsuitable environment.

So I think the answer to the OP is, if in doubt of your surroundings keep it on the lead.
 
I do not understand the modern vogue for buying dogs off working breeding for pet homes. Are there not enough show dogs out there? OK, sometimes it works but I suspect the owners/trainers (and maybe the dogs) are exceptional.

I have just come from a farming forum where there is yet another thread about dogs killing sheep. From reading posts here, it seems many of these owners think it is perfectly alright to allow a dog from a working strain to run around loose, off the lead, without supervision. And then they are surprised that it runs off and does something centuries of selection have programmed it to do!

Terriers have been bred in this country to do a job for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Pet ownership, except for some of the toy breeds, is a relatively new phenomena. For sure, a lot of these dogs are fine -- until their hunting instincts kick in and then they're off! Big surprise!

I've bred working gundogs for over half a century and no dog in my kennel would ever be allowed out unless it was under my constant supervision. Of course, they get out into a paddock (about an acre) most of the day but only because it is securely fenced. I never knowingly sell one of my dogs as a pet and all prospective purchasers are carefully vetted. The latest to get turned away was a professor who stated that he intended keeping the dog in the house during the day and in a crate in the corner of the kitchen at night. A formula for disaster! Once that dog realised there is game out there, every time someone forgets to close a door or window, the dog would be gone. OK, not all working dogs are that bad (?), but I'd be disappointed if a young dog from my kennel did not chase a sheep the first time it saw one -- but I'm ready for it, I'm a good trainer, and I don't let it happen.

Now why did I post that? What a waste of time! :rolleyes:
 
Dry Rot said:
I do not understand the modern vogue for buying dogs off working breeding for pet homes. Are there not enough show dogs out there? OK, sometimes it works but I suspect the owners/trainers (and maybe the dogs) are exceptional.

I have just come from a farming forum where there is yet another thread about dogs killing sheep. From reading posts here, it seems many of these owners think it is perfectly alright to allow a dog from a working strain to run around loose, off the lead, without supervision. And then they are surprised that it runs off and does something centuries of selection have programmed it to do!

Terriers have been bred in this country to do a job for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Pet ownership, except for some of the toy breeds, is a relatively new phenomena. For sure, a lot of these dogs are fine -- until their hunting instincts kick in and then they're off! Big surprise!

I've bred working gundogs for over half a century and no dog in my kennel would ever be allowed out unless it was under my constant supervision. Of course, they get out into a paddock (about an acre) most of the day but only because it is securely fenced. I never knowingly sell one of my dogs as a pet and all prospective purchasers are carefully vetted. The latest to get turned away was a professor who stated that he intended keeping the dog in the house during the day and in a crate in the corner of the kitchen at night. A formula for disaster! Once that dog realised there is game out there, every time someone forgets to close a door or window, the dog would be gone. OK, not all working dogs are that bad (?), but I'd be disappointed if a young dog from my kennel did not chase a sheep the first time it saw one -- but I'm ready for it, I'm a good trainer, and I don't let it happen.

Now why did I post that? What a waste of time! :rolleyes:
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Yes I agree why did you post that, Ive never read on this forum where dogs from working strains are allowed to run loose off the lead without supervision.

My original post was help for my friend for her rescue dog which we can only guess at her parentage.

Perhaps its the hot weather but it certainly seems to be bringing out some strange postings today and tonight.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Yes I agree why did you post that, Ive never read on this forum where dogs from working strains are allowed to run loose off the lead without supervision.

My original post was help for my friend for her rescue dog which we can only guess at her parentage.

Perhaps its the hot weather but it certainly seems to be bringing out some strange postings today and tonight.
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If the dog is a rescue of unknown history and it has a problem which the new owner finds unacceptable, I would have thought the sensible thing to do would be to take it back so the rescue centre who could then find it a home where its hunting would be taken as something positive.

I do get a bit exasperated reading threads about sheep worrying on another forum, then posts on here about working dogs that have started to hunt and can't be controlled.

It sounds to me as if this dog is a Fell type terrier and once those little b***rs start to hunt, there's no stopping them. Probably a good dog in the wrong hands!:D:D:D I wonder when it will start to kill cats?

Yes, I've read the dog training article, also seen from the pictures what sort of dogs the writer is referring to -- a Labrador, GSD, and a Springer spaniel. It might work with them, but I'd be doubtful if it would work with a terrier! I suggest you go back and read this thread again, you've had some good advice but choose to ignore it because it is not what you want to hear.
 
this is an odd thread!

dg as you might know my dog is a rescue terrier mix and i also have an issue with her hunting. luckily most places i walk dont have rabbits. i have seen her work (on a flat field so i can see her), she goes from hole to hole and will randomly stop and refuse to leave presumably because a rabbit is in it. a rabbit can run infront of her but shes not interested. i can call her back if shes heading in the direction but once shes gone you have to wait for her which isnt good. she is also the kind of dog that the more you "interfere" and call her on a walk the less she listens so i only call her when i need to ie when shes running off.
my parents keep chickens and she was terrible with them, this is probably similar to your friends dog. she wasnt bad as how most dogs are she knew what she was doing and would go for the kill. she is very responsive to being told as tbh she rarely does anything that deserves it! the only time she got shouted at was when she went for the hens and she knew i wasnt happy! it took a while but i just kept calling her back to me and making a fuss when she came back. i also didnt shut her away from them, she came with me to let them out, she was on the lawn with them but she was not allowed chase them and eventually it worked and shes absolutely fine!
the suggestion with the buster collar is a good idea esp for walks. maybe just keep calling the dog away and rewarding her. dont leave her alone in the yard but at the same time fencing her off will make her want to even more. if they can redirect her hunting instinct it might work. she is still young enough and actually having sets in their back garden will help train her better for walks. sorry this is so long and not sure if its any help!
 
Fwiw as the owner Of a relatively small commercial flock, who have been attacked by dogs. I believe there's 0 correlation between breed and deed.
The dogs that went through our flock were bred to be shepherd dogs... I don't know if that statement alone blows the breed instincts Over training theory out of the water?
Either way I hope your friend gets it sorted out op :)
 
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