How do you use electrolytes?

Gamebird

Gamebird

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I hope this isn't too dull for a Friday morning but the sun's out and I am just about to go and buy a tub of electrolytes for my sweaty boys (horses, not husband :p).

I was wondering how/when people tend to use them. I know what I do and what I usually recommend but there seem to be two schools of thought - one lot (including the manufacturers - funny that ;) ) suggest giving them daily all through periods of hard work/heat ie. for the whole competition season; others don't use them all the time but give them for 2-3 days before and after a competition. The theory there being that if they are supplied on a continuous basis that the body adjusts to their presence.

So which camp is everyone in and why?

In return for boring you it's my turn to do 'Cake Friday' at work so there's endless pretty decorated fairy cakes and a tray of rocky road if you can get in before my colleagues do! :D
 
I use them continuously for any period of time the horse is likely to get overly sweaty working and/ or if we are stabling away for any length of time.

I started my current horse back on them early this week with the forecast being hot and my horse starting to sweat properly when worked. He has a scoop in every evening feed and will stay on them until the weather cools down and/or he stops sweating dramatically.

I am lead to believe that they do not have much affect if you just feed them as a one off before/ after one particular strenuous workout.
 
I use them a couple of days before and after an event and also after a session where they have worked/sweated hard. We are jumping this evening and then going to the gallops Sunday so I will use them tonight, Sat and Sunday evening, we are then at BCA next Saturday so will start them again Thursday evening through until Monday.

As much as I would love a cake I will pass as I am just too fat for cake at the moment ;)
 
I only give electrolytes when im competing in hot weather as this is when my horse sweats alot, I give on the day and then for the few days after the competition. The amount of electrolytes lost is proportionate to the amount the horse sweats, free access to a salt lick and plenty of forage (hay provides potassium) is more than sufficient for most leisure horses and those who arent sweating heavily.

Most losses would gradually be replaced over time, simply by the horse eating and drinking normally. However for horses sweating heavily and on a on a regular basis, I would give an electrolyte supplement as it will aid a more rapid and effective recovery.
It is not possible to replace total losses in one go. Supplements aim to support hydration and the replenishment of electrolytes, but it can take several days for levels to be fully restored following heavy and prolonged sweating.

Also as you cant preload electrolytes,ensuring your horse is kept well hydrated prior is the best prevention then electrolytes after

Thats what ive always been told by vets and nutritionists anyway!
 
I use them for the horses the same way as I would for me! If I'm training hard I would always have an electrolyte drink to immediately replace what I've sweated out and ensure I'm properly hydrated. If im tapering and consuming less in training would take for 48 hours before and day after competition as well as through competition day.

Translated to horse this generally means he would have electrolytes after fast work or flat/jump training session where he has sweated, which during he summer if he's in full work is most days! He also has access to a salt block. In the spring/autumn when it's not as warm and not sweating so much or when work not as hard he'd just have them after fast work and for 2 days before, day of and day after event. He'd still have access to a salt block at all other times though.:)
 
Gamebird said:
I was wondering how/when people tend to use them. I know what I do and what I usually recommend but there seem to be two schools of thought - one lot (including the manufacturers - funny that ;) ) suggest giving them daily all through periods of hard work/heat ie. for the whole competition season; others don't use them all the time but give them for 2-3 days before and after a competition. The theory there being that if they are supplied on a continuous basis that the body adjusts to their presence.
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I'm not sure that the 'adjusts to their presence' holds true from a nerd physiology point of view. Assuming that the electrolytes in the supplement are K, Na, Ca, Mg plus a bit of Cl, then the normal physiology of the animal would be to keep the electrolytes in the body at the requisite level, no more and no less. If you supplement everyday, anything surplus to requirements would simply be excreted via kidneys. If you were to 'load' a few days before, then the same would be true - excess would be removed. I suppose the point of the supplement is to replace lost Na and Cl from sweating so I'd be inclined to give as required rather than daily, although I think it's difficult to judge the quantity required. I'm more of the school of thought that sticks an electrolyte lick (some sort of posh Himalayan salt rock) in the field/stable and lets the horses be their own moderator. They do use it considerably more when they've been sweaty and I make the naive assumption that just as humans do, they get salt cravings when they need to replenish ie. not enough salt in their normal diet.
 
kit279 said:
I'm not sure that the 'adjusts to their presence' holds true from a nerd physiology point of view. Assuming that the electrolytes in the supplement are K, Na, Ca, Mg plus a bit of Cl, then the normal physiology of the animal would be to keep the electrolytes in the body at the requisite level, no more and no less. If you supplement everyday, anything surplus to requirements would simply be excreted via kidneys. If you were to 'load' a few days before, then the same would be true - excess would be removed. I suppose the point of the supplement is to replace lost Na and Cl from sweating so I'd be inclined to give as required rather than daily, although I think it's difficult to judge the quantity required. I'm more of the school of thought that sticks an electrolyte lick (some sort of posh Himalayan salt rock) in the field/stable and lets the horses be their own moderator. They do use it considerably more when they've been sweaty and I make the naive assumption that just as humans do, they get salt cravings when they need to replenish ie. not enough salt in their normal diet.
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Yes, apologies Kit. So much of our communication training is geared towards avoiding technical terms and 'dumbing down' to make sure that you never talk above peoples' heads that I've become lazy and it's slipped into other aspects of my life! I'm on top of the physiology, really! :o

I'm quite curious in what people do though. For the purpose of this question let's assume that I'm talking about a part-bred fairly sweaty horse competing at BE Nov/BS Newcomers with a competition most weekends and at least one hard session at some point in the week inbetween. So not just a RC horse etc.

I'm of the 'as and when' mindset, but while I quite like giving horses free access to mineral licks I do provide the things that I think they MUST have in their bucket feed as all the research that I've seen suggests that animals aren't as good at self-medicating as our perception of them is. I agree that it's very difficult to quantify amounts.
 
Interesting thread and I would very very interested in your view GB.

I current feed a mix of salt and lo salt (and I am not convinced I have the mix correct hence a recent post) but having read an interesting article in the latest BE mag I am pretty sure I am not feeding enough.

I would feed approx a tablespoon daily and more 50g ish when working / sweating hard which lets face it in the summer for an eventer working at BE nov is pretty often. I will add my horse is a sweaty one as well so does seem to struggle more in the heat.

I read recently that if a horse sweats heavily they can loose 70g of salts from their body - no idea how correct that is.
 
A couple of days before and a couple of days after we have been very sweaty (which is infrequent as it involves hard work) in their feeds.
They have saltlicks, I know it's not the same thing but I do expect them to self regulate a bit.
 
Did you read the article in the BE mag re this? Not sure if it was this one or the last one? By an author I respect who argued the case for feeding daily and I must admit since reading this I have changed to feeding daily from my previous regime which was 2 or 3 days before an event. Probably in the v hot weather I would have fed daily anyway.

What I would see is I only have this regime for horses in what I can hardish work competing Novice level and above eventing others still have as and when.
 
Interesting thread GB and a subject that Horsemad12 and I have discussed a few times over recent weeks.

I always used to feed electrolytes, on a daily basis for a particularly sweaty horse who was working pretty hard, and on an 'as and when' basis for another who didn't tend to sweat as much and wasn't working as hard.

Then I read several articles about the dangers of 'overdosing' on certain minerals (potassium springs to mind but I can't be entirely sure) so I stopped feeding them.

I'm happy to give my horses salt (as opposed to a ready-made formula) but still wonder if this is entirely necessary (they're on an all-round powder balancer) and both have access to Himalayan salt licks which they do use - I, like Kit, tend to subscribe more to the self-moderation theory.

Would be very interested to hear thoughts from the science/medical experts?
 
I feed salt daily year round and during " summer"/ work I add lo salt.

Waiting for someone to correct me but I'm thinking something along the lines of high potassium in spring/growing/stressed grass and this -oh pants forgotten the word- suppresses (?) the body's receptors that tell it to take on salt?! Could be completely wrong but something along those lines is floating about in my head!

I also ensure free access to salt and various mineral blocks but they never get touched.
 
I give them all the time all year round while the horse is ridden when turned away they just have their rock salt licks in the field .
When they are in hard work I often see them using the the licks in the field so they are having the daily dose of electrolytes and taking in salt from the licks.
 
Gamebird said:
others don't use them all the time but give them for 2-3 days before and after a competition.
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I am in this camp but if horse gets hot at home, after a hard session or whatever I tend to give them then too, for a couple of days, no idea if it is right or not ;)

Cake please, I need it today :D
 
I am now going to read the BE article again as it was very very interesting, but I am pretty sure that is said studies done on salt licks showed some horses underdosed and some overdosed.

Again pretty sure that it said majority of horses would be / are receiving too little rather than too much.

It also gave advice on what to look for when buying electrolytes.

I am guessing (if it did not state) that it studied horses working hard, like Sarah-Jane I would assume BE Nov and above.

I am still in the cheap skate camp of feeding salt and lo salt but also sat on the fence as to if I should change.
 
I used to give one horse a daily dose of electrolytes over the competition season on the advice of a nutritionist, as she had had a very slight tying up episode and I wanted to avoid it happening again. (this was alongside other diet adjustments).

Otherwise, I don't usually preload, just give them to horses after sweaty workouts to replace the lost salts etc.
All horses also have a Himalayan Salt lick.
 
Practically, I just offer them before and after a long journey of over 3 hours or so/after a marathon/ sometimes after dressage at a 3DE/if in training they get very hot.

Very luckily Baileys sponsor the young drivers and horse first sponsors one of our 3DEs and gives all completers a generous pot of 'heavy sweat' so in theory I could use them as recommended, but tbh I don't think it would make much difference for the work mine do as although they're very fit they never really sweat up apart from after a marathon, so going without is easier especially as they only come in for 30mins at a time to eat or work. :o
 
If we assume that a horse working at that level is the equine equivalent of a good amateur club cyclist or runner (and from the electrolyte point of view horses and humans aren't very far apart - horses probably even sweat more as they don't thermoregulate by panting - they depend on sweating); then how many athletes competing at that sort of level would try to do so without taking on some form of electrolytes, especially in the warmer months? They certainly wouldn't wait for salt cravings to drive them to seek out a bag of crisps (the human equivalent of a salt lick).

I think the BE article may subconsiously have been the thing that got me thinking. I'd forgotten that I saw it but thanks for reminding me S_J. I remember being surprised by the conclusions.
 
meardsall_millie said:
- I, like Kit, tend to subscribe more to the self-moderation theory.

Would be very interested to hear thoughts from the science/medical experts?
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I don't know if I'll be able to dig out the paper I saw, but all the evidence from recent research suggested that animals were very poor at self-moderation/medication and the oft-quoted theory that they knew what and how much of things they needed was a bit of an urban (rural?) myth.
 
I tend to use them daily when working fairly hard, I feed salt to mine all year, some will take plenty from a lick but the one that actually sweats most and works hardest has never in the last 2 years touched his salt lick, so I am not sure about self medicating.
They will need to spend a long time each day at a lick to get a decent amount, mine are usually too interested in eating to have more than a cursory lick.
 
Useful comments about self-medication in animals GB thank you.

I'd comment on the human comparison though. My reading around electrolyte usage for athletes/exercise has recommended supplementation after 45 mins - 1 hour (and we're in 10km territory there so not really low level stuff), until then plain water suffices. I suppose it's reinforcing that horses working/sweating hard need supplementation and not 'happy hackers' (sweeping generalisation I know ;) ).

With regard to self-medication in humans - I'm guessing it's unlikely many of us would be reaching for the salt as we generally consume way too much anyway so highly unlikely to be deficient?!

Any thoughts on the benefits or otherwise of electrolytes over plain salt in horses?
 
A bit of a different case - my horse ties-up so I feed electrolytes (a brand chosen as it is higher in Selenium than some others) all year round as part of his management amongst other stuff.
But not at the recommended amount. I think it recommends 1 scoop daily he gets a 1/4 scoop daily and I up the amount leading up to a comp/days hunting/after hard work and then drop it again afterwards. In summer if he is sweating in 40C just in the field and not being worked I will give him some. He also has access to a salt block all year round.
The amount he has gets and needs we have sort of worked out by trial and error over the years.

I have also done a seasons of 60km+ endurances on a horse who just got a bit of table salt in his dinner (chaff, crushed maize, soaked oats and bran mash) and never showed any signs of being lacking in salt. It probably wouldnt have hurt him to have some but he didnt appear to 'need' them.
 
I fed as per manufactures recommendations for a whole and ha a problem with him excessively urinating an as he has a liver problem I stopped and now only feed after hard/ sweaty work.
 
Great thread! I've fed salt daily and electrolytes leading up to and after competing since the Baileys rep advised me to in April. However, i evented my horse yesterday and it's really concerned me that he didn't drink at all! He didn't drink much before we left yesterday morning, nothing all day and nothing after xc. He did pee after xc and it was slightly darker and thicker than i would of liked. He finally drunk when we got home at 11.30 pm and not surprising he wasn't on his best form. Any ideas please?
 
Very interesting and I somehow missed the BE mag article.

I don't currently feed any electrolytes but my horse doesn't seem to sweat very much! Competed yesterday round the BE100 at West Wilts and he galloped strongly round the XC and pulled up breathing pretty much normally with only a very small amount of sweat under his saddle, however he is (unintentionally) ultra fit (hacking is very hilly). I'm very lucky in that he will drink little and often when we're out and about.

If (or when) he starts to sweat heavily then I'll start to think about elextrolytes. For me personally as a runner/cyclist/squash player I do find they help when playing to my max in hot weather and if I don't take on sports drinks then I get migraines. But I only use them during and immediately after exertion and that is probably the thinking I would carry over to the horse.

Saying all that, he does have a himalayan rock salt lick in his stable which I believe he uses.
 
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