How do you value a competition horse?

Although their experience and record is usually what I go on with some like Jacques it's different.
It's obvious he has an incredible jump and his dressage is just as good.
At his first dressage the judge got out of her car and asked who he was by, she liked him so much. C says he is the perfect horse, goes first, last, slow/fast whatever, doesn't nap etc, and fingers firmly crossed now has no issues over getting on.(!)
His first experience Xc he showed a maturity way beyond his years, so he is worth a lot more than a horse with an average BE record.
Provided she takes him the right speed and doesn't over face him he should be the horse who she can move up the levels, I am positive if I gave him to a top rider they would succeed easily.
But where do we find another one like him?
The problem then comes that of course no-one wants to sell their own horse like that with so much potential, so talking about his worth is pointless.
At the finish all horses are worth what someone will actually hand over for them, some people will pay for potential, others for experience, others for a safe ride.
It's what the horse is worth to them in terms of their requirements, so if you have a horse that will safely take a novice round a decent course, will do a push button dressage test etc, it's value can be astronomic to the person looking for such a horse. The same horse to a professional rider is worth b*** all as they want to go further.
I tend to price ours by comparing on horsemart/horsequest and in H and H (though I ignore many ads as they are dealers and often over priced)
I also think it depends on the area you live in; horses in the West Country are cheaper because quite honestly there are so many of them.
Twenty years ago I got three and a half thousand for my broken four year olds, now I get from £5000, so in reality the price hasn't risen fast enough in comparison with inflation.
We find the secret to selling is to make them very nice rides, as a rule anyone who tried one of ours buys it, there are so many horrible horses out there for sale to ride something willing and obedient is a huge advantage..
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This is a really interesting debate as i for one have thought so many of the 'How much...' posts draw out some ridiculous price tags from those who participate. In fact, i posted my own (tongue-in-cheek) one a few months back for Bo based an accurate, if a little biased, description of him. The prices i was quoted varied from around £5k to a whopping £50k
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All this did for me was highlight just how random and variable horse pricing is
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What one has to remember is this. Horses never (well VERY rarely anyway) return to their owner the true cost of their purchase. We all participate in a very expensive 'hobby' and the only people who really make any money out of it are those 'names' who can sell to the rich hobbyists who want to buy the best their pound will obtain. To that end, the value of a horse is directly related to the financial markets that prevail at the time. In boom times people (usually parents !) will pay fortunes to make sure that their little proteges will have the very best chances that money can buy....when the markets dry up so do the prices paid for horses. There are outside influences as well....Olympic season is a goo one ! In the 18 months leading up to a major games or championships you may well see horses changing hands for extortinate sums...again....someone, somewhere is willing to buy success....or at least try to
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I know of a 5yo back in the 1980's that as a grade c (a very good one at that !) was sold to America for over £100k
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The horse had jumped (but not been placed) in the Foxhunter Final that year...but some rich yank was prepared to spend a small fortune in the hope that the horse would jump in the LA Olympics.......it never did....or at least to the best of my knowledge
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In my recent experience, the most realistic prices being asked are by reputable dealers. It seems to be the hopeful amateurs who are pricing their horses in cloud cuckoo....
 
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In my recent experience, the most realistic prices being asked are by reputable dealers. It seems to be the hopeful amateurs who are pricing their horses in cloud cuckoo....

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I totally agree with that!
 
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From my point of view I decide whether a horse is worth what's being asked by what I think it can do in the future - circumstances may mean that a 7yo hasn't done much, but if someone had had the time to take it out it might have done well. I'm not really that bothered as long as the basics are in place.

My attitude would be based on what it has done previously. Why should someone take the profit on. " If only I had time it would have/could have won lots more" If some one wants to make a decent profit they MUST put the time in. 'Potential' for me is a potential broken leg. Unless of course it is a 3 4 or 5yr old.
 
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Badger on the other hand is uglier and more difficult - but I just think he's fab so I'd want more money!
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All a bit crazy i guess!

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I think this is the exact reason why people are advertising and valuing their horses at stupid prices. They add far too much emotion/greed into it. A dealer has no emotion just covering costs and making profit whatever that might be. Also for a dealer the longer it is there the more it costs.

I might email horsequest and see if they will let me experiment with my horse think it would be fascinating to stick him on for 24 hours at a variety of prices even though I have no intention of selling would be good for market research.

As for Jam - I know what Imperial Cavalier sold for!!
 
I think most horses seem to be horrifically overpriced. And I also think that other things should come into it with regard to a competition horse such as temperament - I mean, yes a horse sounds great if he's won this and that but if he's a total a*sehold to be around then I don't want him!

Maybe all of us should get into this horse trading business, all you have to do is back a horse and get it round a few intro's and bam there's a £10k horse straight away it seems!! Its crazy that intro / PN horses are going for so much money - pretty much ANY horse (or pony!) can jump round these courses!
 
What a pertinent post for us! We are truly amazed at the prices amateurs and private homes are asking for horses with real issues never mind any real talent, we are so disillusioned that, in our case, I think we are just about to buy a totally unspoilt rising 4yo which arrived from Goresbridge yesterday. Seller is a friend and small dealer with a fab eye for a horse, he sold us Hattie. We saw it's paces and jump on the lunge last night - his movement is fabulous and with an awesome ping. He selected him with Abbie in mind and has given us first refusal and I know we won't be stitched up. The price will be high but fair- I'm not sure yet but it will be close to buying a PN/N horse with very average results. All thoughts of JRNs are forgone. Hattikins has a very silly grin on her face, he would be hers to make what she can of him under the same guidance she had for Hattie. We don't even have to trek round the country to see him as he's only 1/2 mile away! BYEH and PAVO 4yo here we come!

These over priced horses are scaring off genuine buyers. IMO most of the private ads have based their prices on what they see other people are trying to get for similar horses rather than a realistic price they would consider paying for their own horse.

The problem with professional or dealer sales, as we all know, is that they've been set up and might not perform for a lesser rider. Buying from a name will guarantee top price but the risks are again huge and no guarantees of value for your money. We've heard of two 4* horses recently which won't go clear OPN for their current riders!

We're following this post with great interest.
 
Beetle you've hit the nail on the head for me regarding buying from a professional - I'm no professional, I cannot accurately place a horse to a fence, and my boy regularly has to help his rather amateur owner out. That's why I would be unlikely to buy from a pro as to me it is worth a lot that my horse can think for himself and sort himself out when I have 'long stride, short stride, oh b*llox, you decide' moments!

That said I have bought him on myself from a very green 5yo to doing Novice this year in 2 seasons of owning him.
 
I learnt the hard way about buying horses from professionals, I'm just not a good enough rider and they can't cope with Amateur moments. I know of a Whittaker horse that was bought for a lot of money and was recently sold on at £800.

The how much posts always make me laugh as people for example, make out that their horse is worth £20K but they only paid £3k for it a year ago, and if they were looking for a similar horse they will only pay £4k for it.
 
This is where is becomes very difficult for the buyer. I put a post on here a few months ago about a horse I wanted to buy. He was on the market for £7500 but was a 5yo 15hh conammara cross that hadn't done anything. I though £5000 would be a reasonable price and that was what I would be prepared to offer. I was shot down in flames by many forum members and called a 'timewaster' just because I was only prepared to pay £5000 where IMO the horse was overpriced anyway and probably the seller was only going to get 5K in the end anyway.

would I be correct in saying that some horses advertised at 20K probably sell at 10k- makes it v diff for the buyer to know what to go and see!
 
You've made me see I didn't word it very well - I didn't mean I'd pay the same for the 7yo that hadn't done much, but more that just because a horse hasn't done much doesn't mean it isn't any good. As I'm always on a fairly tight budget when horse shopping I often end up looking at horses that are 6 or 7 but with very limited competition experience as they have a lower price than the ones that have been out and about. I'm quite happy to put the competition experience in if I think they are decent enough animals in the first place.
 
I agree Freshman - for a competition horse to be worth a lot of money, surely you need to see a very good record and even then, you're looking at results for the combination of horse and rider - not just the horse.
As far as paying for potential is concerned, it looks like it's moving towards the racing scenario where breeding is the be all and end all (but is still a lottery). Possibly the best way to judge, as a couple of goodish Intro/PN results don't mean a lot as far as I can see.
My lot look for good conformation and soundness (they don't mind the odd 'vice') but would still not pay over the odds because you need to be able to sell on if it doesn't work out.
 
SpottedCat - Totally agree with what you said. Exactly how I feel too! I like my horses because they also help me out when I cock up (frequently!), I dont think a pro horse would do that. My horses have always thought for themselves and have got me out of some very sticky situations. I would never buy a vastly expensive top of the range horse as I know I couldn't ride it! lol
 
I think everyone needs to bookmark this thread and refer to it when none of you can sell your competion horses. Reading this thread there is a very limited market for horses that have actually competed or are a bit established at what they do. The majority of people wouldn't buy them as there is no pleasure apparently in doing well on a horse that you haven't trained from a scratch or even better bred.

So looking at it economically a horse that can actually do the job should actually be priced less than a horse that has never been sat on as there is a far bigger market for that type of horse - market forces, supply and demand etc.

I am wondering if it is worth getting my horse fit again as I obviously won't get any enjoyment out of competing her as she is a been there done type.
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