How does one ‘own’ a dog?

[fiwen30]

Following on from the thread about the cockerpoo breeding machine, I had a thought.

How exactly does one prove ownership over a dog, legally?

Is it the microchip registration details? The person who registers the dog with vets or other professionals? The person who paid for the dog and/or signed paperwork on purchase/adoption? Which bit exactly is the legal proof of ownership?

It just got me wondering, as my manager recently split from her partner, and he was able to keep her German Shepard, as the dog’s license was in his name (Northern Ireland), even though everything else to do with the dog was in her name. Police weren’t interested. We renew our licenses annually, so not sure if she can revisit claiming back her dog when the license expires.

And how might the ‘seller’ retain possession of the cockerpoo, after money had been exchanged, and presumably the ‘buyer’ would be the one who’s name goes to everything from then on?

 

[blackcob]

Not having licenses here, my understanding is that there is no single bit of paperwork that is definitive proof of ownership and if a dispute makes it to court then several things will be taken into account. Microchip registration could be one but also veterinary records, pedigree registration, who bought the dog, who usually cares for the dog etc.

In which case I agree with your last point, as long as you have a receipt for the sale of the dog and everything else is in your name I wonder how on earth these contracts can be enforced? Same as some of the clauses in sales contracts about not neutering or giving the dog certain vaccines, I suspect they hold no legal weight at all.

 

[windand rain]

Once sold and money has changed hands then the seller has no control over anything the buyer does the contracts are I believe a courtesy thing but not legally enforcable. I could be wrong but the first refusal thing in horses certainly is not binding and is mostly ignored

 

[Goldenstar]

The last two puppies I bought have come with an agreement that they must return to the breeder if they need rehoming .
Its not worth the paper it’s written on .
I have nothing against the breeders put I am best placed to decide where my dogs go if I die .

 

[CorvusCorax]

On the continent a lot of pedigrees and registration certificates are the same document, at change of ownership the previous owner signs it over on the back and the new owner signs it.
The papers belong to the dog and go with it (as opposed to these islands where you need a new registration certificate with each owner).
All registration documents should carry the name and address of the owner.
With crossbreeds or unregistered dogs...who knows.
Pet passports can also be used as proof of ID.
One of the reasons I'd never do co-ownership or breeding terms, it rarely ends well.

 

[laura_nash]

Following on from the thread about the cockerpoo breeding machine, I had a thought.

How exactly does one prove ownership over a dog, legally?

Is it the microchip registration details? The person who registers the dog with vets or other professionals? The person who paid for the dog and/or signed paperwork on purchase/adoption? Which bit exactly is the legal proof of ownership?

It just got me wondering, as my manager recently split from her partner, and he was able to keep her German Shepard, as the dog’s license was in his name (Northern Ireland), even though everything else to do with the dog was in her name. Police weren’t interested. We renew our licenses annually, so not sure if she can revisit claiming back her dog when the license expires.

And how might the ‘seller’ retain possession of the cockerpoo, after money had been exchanged, and presumably the ‘buyer’ would be the one who’s name goes to everything from then on?

According to this it is any combination of those and basically at the judges discretion if its not totally clear: https://doglaw.co.uk/civil/ownership-custody-disputes/

In the cockerpoo breeding machine example the buyer owns the dog. The question would be if the seller could enforce whatever contract they have re the breeding, which I highly doubt. I suppose they could take the buyer to small claims for the estimated value of the 4 litters, I'm not a lawyer but I doubt they'd win.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Sale of receipt and vet bills/registered by that person’s name at the vets? I imagine in a court that would be the requirements.

 

[blackcob]

Slightly off topic but a common complaint in veterinary practice is that staff are jobsworths if they refuse to do things like disclose clinical history or billing info, accept consent forms etc. to anyone but the registered account holder(s) or without first contacting them for permission - imagine the damage that could be done in the event of an ownership dispute. They are being nitpicky for a reason, let them do their job! ?

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

According to this it is any combination of those and basically at the judges discretion if its not totally clear: https://doglaw.co.uk/civil/ownership-custody-disputes/

In the cockerpoo breeding machine example the buyer owns the dog. The question would be if the seller could enforce whatever contract they have re the breeding, which I highly doubt. I suppose they could take the buyer to small claims for the estimated value of the 4 litters, I'm not a lawyer but I doubt they'd win.

I don't imagine the Cockerpoo breeder would likely care - they have full market price for the dog, and I imagine they have tried to sell all of their puppies with the same terms knowing that one or two may actually follow through. Utterly vile practise IMO.

 

[laura_nash]

I don't imagine the Cockerpoo breeder would likely care - they have full market price for the dog, and I imagine they have tried to sell all of their puppies with the same terms knowing that one or two may actually follow through. Utterly vile practise IMO.

Yes, the whole thing is utterly bizzare to me. But then I've never actually paid for a dog (or cat) and 3K is more then I've ever spent on a horse so it's another world really.