How does this saddle fit?

Kallibear said:
It's not only too narrow, it's got too narrow a head: the panels are far too high and close to suit her wither profile. That's a highwithered TB-y saddle and she looks she's got like a native-type back. The base of her name obscures the veiw though. Shame as the rest of the panels look like they sit fairly well.
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I'd agree that the panels are too high and will pinch her withers; these videos are pretty useful:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv6cKLjwpt0&feature=related I'd also second trying Ideals on her.
 
Queenbee said:
I'd buy the ugliest saddle going if it was the only fit to my horse. I really would save your money, I assume that you want leather and not synthetic, which is why I suggested a bates, this will allow you quite a variation with regards to width, you also say that you are considering the jumping saddle which would obviously be more forward cut, they in turn sit farther back because of their design, which may mean you could get away with a wide in the jumping saddle, not ideal, but as you say you can not not ride her, it may be the way to go, buy the jumping saddle first (if the fit of that is better) and then look for a better fit for your daily saddle, at Least then you could continue to work her and as you say you are going to get a jumping saddle anyway. Just a note, both my saddles fit my mare, but my leather one is very forward cut, because this in turn sits further back her girth is ultimately done up further back, my mare has a forward girth grove as does yours and I find that the girth on the bates sits about a handspan behind where it does when she is in her wintec... The saddle still fits lovely infact the 'feel' and freedom of movement from her is amazing just from putting a different style saddle on her. Anyway my point is, more forward cut saddle=slightly further back girth=more comfy girth position for ned :D
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DOnt worry I have looked for bates, native pony saddles, stubben everything but im struggling to find anything small enough for her, I will not consider a synthetic unless its like the tekna but will not be spending £400 on a synthetic to be honest.

sbloom said:
I am going to stick my neck out and say it's not too narrow, the tree is the wrong shape. If you look at where the points are (hard to visualise) they look like they are probably parallel with the horse's ribcage. I would want to see it in the flesh, or a better photo showing more of the little pocket that the point is stitched into. It is very easy to see the front of a saddle looking like that and say it is too narrow.

The actual overall problem is that it is cantle low, and yes, the headof the tree ie pommel shape is too narrow, making it sit up high. But it is also too curvy which also makes it sit up high. If this was in balance, ie the deepest part of the seat was level with the ground instead of sloping backwards, I'd bet it would lift at the back, at the moment it can't as all your weight will be at the back of the saddle. Mind you, if you can see how scooped the seat is, no real flat spot, you'll start to see why it's a curvy tree. Natives, evern with withers, tend to need a flatter tree with a more open "sweet spot", the deepest part of the seat.

Most saddles will also look too narrow and cantle low when they are sitting too far forwards on the shoulder, but it is those issues that most commonly cause the saddle to move forwards - ie being slightly cantle low. Your weight is on the cantle, which means the contact at the front of the saddle lessens, and with many conformation types it will move forwards.

You need a flatter tree and panel, and with the right shaped tree (more open in the head) a point strap might really help with that forward girth groove, I use one on most natives and cobs. Some fitters don't like them but as I say, with the right shaped tree they are a blessing.
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This is what I'm trying to find as I posted the barnsby saddle fitted saddle and this has a flatter tree than that but still not flat enough :(, and I did find some native pony saddles second hand and new for for very good prices as you suggested but all were 17.5" and above which for a 13.2 i dont think would be right although I love the saddles in the flesh, if i found one that was the right size i wouldnt hesitate to spend a couple of hundred more. Also pony is currently a little more overweight than I would like so has more padding than usual but she wouldnt massivly change shape


Alec Swan said:
Saddles are made, so that when under the riders weight, the cantle sits 1.5" above the pommel. If you take another pic, with you seated on the saddle, but with an accurate side on shot, I'll bet that the cantle will be level with the pommel. Saddles are made around established tree sizes, and then flocked to accommodate the back of the horse, or at least they should be! As the width is determined by the distance between the points, re-flocking will achieve nothing.

Clearly that saddle is either to narrow, or your pony may be carrying a little excess weight, which is effectively the same thing. The saddle appears to be new, so if you have it on trial, the vendor may not be too keen on taking it back in a used condition.

In your shoes, I'd wait until the right fit can be found. As others have said, a saddle which is too wide can be raised, with pads, but a saddle which is too narrow would be an abomination, and it will also rotate, seating you too far back, with your legs in the wrong position.

I hope that you don't see this as harsh, it's an attempt at helping you! ;)

Alec.
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Dosnt seem harsh at all but the cantle is definitly higher than pommel when ridden in and unsure why. The saddle isnt new its 4 years old and luckily on 7 days trial. I just need a saddle that fits asap as will miss the entire season otherwise :(

sbloom said:
Saddles can be pommel high for lots of reasons - imagine if you added another 1cm foam to the back of the saddle, that would make it in balance, but the tree would be the same width. This is why I am sometimes wary of the saddles with changeable headplates - an owner would think this is narrow, put in the wider gullet, see the saddle is in balance, and think all is well. Luckily the OP realised that the wider tree didn't work.

As I posted, yes, the rider will be on the cantle but that is purely about the fact it is cantle low.

I so often hear of horses in between width fittings and wonder if something else is the problem - tree shape, panel configuration. A British standard tree width actually has a 10 degree permitted variance, and flocking can easily make up for that. I will sometimes fit a tree that isn't an exact match for ribcage angle - a few degrees off can be acceptable, and might be preferred by the horse in some instances! Harder with a foam panel of course to adjust for minor variances in width!
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This a reason I hate synthetics and aside from that wont really consider many of them also much prefer leather.
 
In response to Sbloom, I think it is too narrow because the angle of the panels in the first picture is steeper than the angle of the pony's back and in the last photograph the saddle is therefore tipped backwards. The rear picture shows there is plenty of padding at the rear and so this will not be the reason for this. I also agree the tree is too curved.
 
Haven't read through every post but the Ideal Highland and cob that I just bought for my cob (but am selling as his withers are quite high for it) may fit her as has a lower pommel and a wider gullet, great for natives, it measures about 16.5 I think and is a wide (but not super wide), here is the link if you are interested http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/105800325/ideal-hc-apex-brown-wide-saddle.html

Hope you find one to suit her soon, :)
 
Just wanted to say what size Seat do u need? I'm a great bargain hunter;) I would also say bates, I'm pretty sure I could find u one for under £400.... X
 
We should be looking at the tree not the panel - the panel is flockable which changes it's angle, compressible, and conformable., The tree is rigid and MUST fit first before we look at the panel.

Here are the points on a saddle and what we should be looking at:

http://www.thegamesman.co.uk/template/treepoint.jpg

And here is a photo (the best I can find in short time and from the blog of a good saddle fitting friend) which shows how a panel might look too narrow, look how it comes down more vertically where it is hidden partially behind the pad, whereas the tree is actually a nice angle on the horse:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nTBwmkRh6...HVOn0o/s320/Tess+with+new+saddle+003+copy.jpg

In this instance yes, the rear panel is fairly deep, but every horse needs a different dpth of rear panel on every different tree, it simply must be in balance. There is no such thing as a rear panel that is absolutely too deep - on some horses (anyone ever seen pics of the writer and judge Wendy Jago's Lolly?!) a REALLY deep panel might be needed which would be a terrible fit on a flatter backed horse.

As another example of where saddle balance and clearance has nothing to do with width, Albion make a high head and a normal head version of several of their saddles - if you have a lower withered horse and unwittingly buy a high head model then it will sit too high even if is the right width. It may or may not sit cantle low depending on the shape of the tree and the depth of rear panel.
 
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Sorry just re read 16.5 well how about this?

Bates caprilli 16.5" brown leather vsd saddle interchangable gullet system

eBay item;

251075269465

Having watched many bates recently on eBay not many go over £400, close to but not overly. Hope this may help?
 
In my experience Bates are not a good fit for most Welsh backs - the tree shape at the front http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2011/09/changeable-gullets-details.html is generally better for TB shapes, and the front to back curve, plus the depth of the panels, is again better for narrower horses with roof shaped backs. The GFS brand is an okay brand and there are some options like the Haffie tree that might work, but as already said, this one is a TB type tree with a high wither/head. The Ideal H&C might work. There are plenty of Native Pony saddles that might work but as the OP has already found they are hard to come by second hand.
 
Was going to mention native pony saddles, but hard to find as you said and if you do, pricey! Never tried a bates on a native so cant vouch for that, be worth asking your saddler out to see if one fits with one of the gullets, and go from there.x
 
Queenbee said:
No not harsh, you asked for opinions. I gave mine, even if this is a less narrow fit than the previous one, it is infact too narrow and will do damage. No matter how comfy your horse feels now, this will very quickly become not the case (atrocious English!!). I did say that I understand your frustration but I do believe you will end up kicking yourself, what's a bit more time for a saddle that fits and won't cause damage? It's your hard earned cash and if you want THAT saddle, no opinion on here will alter your mind. I personally would wait but then I have seen muscle wastage and long term damage from I'll fitting saddles. I really think that if you wait it out you'll be glad you did. Perhaps post your location on here, I'm sure there will be some posters who know of other reputable saddlers who have stocks of saddles you could try sooner, also there may be a few online who are local to you and want to sell something that would be perfect for you and your mare.
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I'm with Queenbee here, too narrow will ALWAYS be too narrow.
 
Wagtail said:
In response to Sbloom, I think it is too narrow because the angle of the panels in the first picture is steeper than the angle of the pony's back and in the last photograph the saddle is therefore tipped backwards. The rear picture shows there is plenty of padding at the rear and so this will not be the reason for this. I also agree the tree is too curved.
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As said previously I thought it was too narrow hence post but wanted others opinions as its a lovely saddle

lara b said:
Haven't read through every post but the Ideal Highland and cob that I just bought for my cob (but am selling as his withers are quite high for it) may fit her as has a lower pommel and a wider gullet, great for natives, it measures about 16.5 I think and is a wide (but not super wide), here is the link if you are interested http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/105800325/ideal-hc-apex-brown-wide-saddle.html

Hope you find one to suit her soon, :)
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I saw your ad yesterday when having a look and cannot remember for the life of me where your located as you say collection only, but you must have been pretty close for me to be looking at it.

Troyseph said:
Just wanted to say what size Seat do u need? I'm a great bargain hunter;) I would also say bates, I'm pretty sure I could find u one for under £400.... X
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Troyseph said:
Sorry just re read 16.5 well how about this?

Bates caprilli 16.5" brown leather vsd saddle interchangable gullet system

eBay item;

251075269465

Having watched many bates recently on eBay not many go over £400, close to but not overly. Hope this may help?
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Im not a fan of the whole interchangable gullet as obviously tree always the same even if gullet is changed.

Troyseph said:
Or;

http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/105464484/bates-gp-16-12.html

That is £400 including postage:D

I will vouch for bates, they're lovey fit and v comfy x
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Hmmm the problem with this is if you look at the panels at the back they extend further than cantle and therefore would not be 16.5inch on ponys back as looking for something where the panels are on the back at point of cantle or slightly contracted underneath *sorry for my poor explaining.*
 
Troyseph said:
Was going to mention native pony saddles, but hard to find as you said and if you do, pricey! Never tried a bates on a native so cant vouch for that, be worth asking your saddler out to see if one fits with one of the gullets, and go from there.x
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As said previously none of the *good* saddlers in my area are available for literally months and having had a poor saddle fitting job done previously not going down that route again and need a saddle.
 
It always surpirises me how many ask saddle fitting Qs on here. I think its impossible to tell by a photo. Best bet is to get a qualifies master saddle fitter to make that judgement, after all that is what they do. I wouldnt leave it down to the opinions of strangers on here. Best of luck :)
 
elsazzo said:
It always surpirises me how many ask saddle fitting Qs on here. I think its impossible to tell by a photo. Best bet is to get a qualifies master saddle fitter to make that judgement, after all that is what they do. I wouldnt leave it down to the opinions of strangers on here. Best of luck :)
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Agree with this basically.

I'm not a saddle fitter but IMO the saddle in question is NOT a good fit - the pommel is way too high and although OP says the horse goes well in it and likes it, I think there may be problems in future as it will start rubbing either side of the withers and the horse may well develop problems with movement/behavioural issues if ridden in this saddle.

Am just throwing this suggestion out, but try here: www.thepainfreehorse.co.uk
 
123o123 said:
As said previously none of the *good* saddlers in my area are available for literally months and having had a poor saddle fitting job done previously not going down that route again and need a saddle.
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I had my horses saddle fitted by a *good* saddle fitter in Cambs, and he is a god awful shape to fit. I think it's only Saddle Company saddles she fits, but that didn't matter to me as SC saddles are super lovely :)
 
Lady La La said:
I had my horses saddle fitted by a *good* saddle fitter in Cambs, and he is a god awful shape to fit. I think it's only Saddle Company saddles she fits, but that didn't matter to me as SC saddles are super lovely :)
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Who was it that fitted yours? Also did you buy yours from new? as this is the problem as will need to kit youngster out next year and being a student I dont have masses to spend so thinking second hand or ex display sort.
 
Bob judd from juddpurs saddlery in halesworth travels all over easy anglia. Have you tried him. He has a lot of second hand saddled in your price range.
 
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