How does twitching work?

[eggs]

I have found the humane metal twitches to be next to useless so use the string on a pole when a nose twitch is needed. I use the skin twitch as my first point of call.

To be honest I would rather twitch a horse than risk a human being injured although fortunately I have very rarely had to resort to using a twitch.

 

[Wagtail]

You'll notice the poll question is "How do you *think* a twitch works?". It's an opinion poll, but I'm sure you know that. In fact, if you've read the thread you'll notice that several people have wondered about the science and how exactly it all works. If you'd like to enlighten us I'm sure we'd all be delighted

Thank you HR. It seems whatever is posted on this forum someone will try to cause a bun fight

 

[EQUIDAE]

I've voted for it releases endorphins as this is what I'd always been told.

That doesn't explain why a duct tape twitch will work on some horses though, so who knows?!

That original video was a fake to prove how gullible people are. If you watch it the key difference is they bring the horse's friend to calm it down.

I think it may work by calming a stressy owner down in they believe it works - a bit like a placebo effect. 9/10 it's the handler making an issue worse.

 

[fburton]

So those who think it releases endorphins, have you ever considered what causes endorphins to be released?

Stimulation of nerve endings where there are lots of them in a highly sensitive part of the anatomy, which may well be painful and/or unpleasant until the endorphins (or pain-related neural circuits <waves hands in air>) are activated to produce the sedative and (presumed) analgesic effects.

The idea that endorphins are involved is supported by some early Dutch experiments with horses that showed naloxone - a drug that blocks the effects of opioids - abolished the sedative-like effects of twitching.

I'm glad to see the discussion including the fact that some horses don't respond well to twitching.

 

[ester]

Yes, it is just that to many it seems 'it releases endorphins' seems more acceptable than it it causes pain receptors in highly innervated areas to respond, which then releases endorphins. Pain and the release of endorphins are pretty synonymous but release of endorphins sounds nicer and happier doesn't it.

 

[Casey76]

The release of endorphins is an acute pain response. It is the body's way of reacting to pain. The endorphins released are stronger than morphine (and act on the same pain receptors in the brain), which is why the horse appears to be sleepy/sedated.

aaaaand as all horse are individuals, it can take different levels of pain to trigger the endorphin release. Horses which are "hard to twitch" have a very high pain threshold (i.e. the release of endorphins is very late), and by trying to twitch them, you are causing extreme pain, for which may be an extended time period.

My youngster doesn't twitch... I learned this the hard way. I would never even attempt to twitch him again.

 

[fburton]

Yes, it is just that to many it seems 'it releases endorphins' seems more acceptable than it it causes pain receptors in highly innervated areas to respond, which then releases endorphins. Pain and the release of endorphins are pretty synonymous but release of endorphins sounds nicer and happier doesn't it.

Yes, it does!

However, I think that similar-looking sedative effects can be produced without an obvious painful/uncomfortable stage. I'm referring to the effect of ear massage where the ear is 'stripped' repeatedly from base to tip between two fingers. Quite a lot of pressure can be used, which I have found to produce quite profound relaxation/sleepiness in many horses. I have no idea whether this works in the same way as twitching, but the end result has some similarities.

 

[fburton]

aaaaand as all horse are individuals, it can take different levels of pain to trigger the endorphin release. Horses which are "hard to twitch" have a very high pain threshold (i.e. the release of endorphins is very late), and by trying to twitch them, you are causing extreme pain, for which may be an extended time period.

Yup - and here the problem is the horse abreacts to the twitching attempt with dangerous behaviour - pulling back and rearing - and can produce even more aversion to the procedure being attempted.

There is an argument for finding out which of your horses respond to the twitch 'normally' and which are poor responders before an emergency situation arises that might involve a twitch being used.

 

[The wife]

I too was also taught it releases endorphins. I quite regularly twitch and have no qualms about doing so. We do have a pony though that we know we have around 10 minutes before she 'blows up'. It isn't pretty when she does so and as such we do have to be very careful.

My TB is very receptive of a twitch and while treating a sarcoid just holding his nose was enough.

I have known some who will blow up literally as soon as a twitch is on. One horse reared over backwards once it was tight so we always twitch new horses with caution until we can trust they are going to be receptive of it...

My mother will not even hold one, she just doesn't like them and moans if they are placed on her horses. It must hurt to a certain degree and I would be interested to know if there are trials or studies which show this?

Regarding pain receptors and endorphins - are endorphins released when pain is present in horses? I know the release or introduction of endoprhins in humans can help release or at least dull pain but wondered if the same applied to horses and as such endorphins are released as a result of pain being caused by a twitch?

 

[J&S]

If a horse/pony is already in a high state of nerves/stress/distress then twitching will not work, it needs to be done when horse still calm (and unsuspecting?!). Would any one else agree with this?

Ear stripping or holding the ear are replications of a mare's actions to discipline an unruly foal. Similarly pinching a small fold of skin on the horse's shoulder.

 

[JennBags]

I'm really torn on this. My boy, who is the sort to throw himself around at the slightest discomfort reacts to it really well. There's no way he'd be distracted by pain, or think "well they've got me now, I'll give up" so there must be some sort of science happening. However, getting it on him in the first place is the issue - we've given up and got him sedated the last few times - so I think it must cause pain for him to not want it on in the first place.

This ^^^

I know we're told it releases endorphins, but if it were painless, surely they wouldn't object to having it on. Every horse I've ever known has hated having a twitch and tried to resist. If I can find a way to make whatever I'm doing a less unpleasant experience, I will take that option rather than twitching.

 

[The wife]

This ^^^

I know we're told it releases endorphins, but if it were painless, surely they wouldn't object to having it on. Every horse I've ever known has hated having a twitch and tried to resist. If I can find a way to make whatever I'm doing a less unpleasant experience, I will take that option rather than twitching.

Perhaps this is more of a conditioned response though. As in horse doesn't like it's head being clipped out. Twitch comes out, horse resists as knows said twitch will enable his head to be clipped out... In all of the horses that I have twitched (and across a 15 year professional career with horses) I have only come across one who will resist on the physical act of getting hold of the nose and that is the pony that I mentioned previously who will blow up, who is a very switched on and clever little mare.

Perhaps this is because we do not make a big deal out of putting a twitch on? It is done when horse is relaxed and before a stressful event has started? Playing devils advocate perhaps?

 

[Reacher]

The vet David Ramey describes it as Tonic Immobility caused by the perceived inability to escape. Sorry I can't post a link but if you google David Ramey and the twitch you will find the article

 

[JennBags]

Perhaps this is more of a conditioned response though. As in horse doesn't like it's head being clipped out. Twitch comes out, horse resists as knows said twitch will enable his head to be clipped out... In all of the horses that I have twitched (and across a 15 year professional career with horses) I have only come across one who will resist on the physical act of getting hold of the nose and that is the pony that I mentioned previously who will blow up, who is a very switched on and clever little mare.

Perhaps this is because we do not make a big deal out of putting a twitch on? It is done when horse is relaxed and before a stressful event has started? Playing devils advocate perhaps?

I'm pretty sure that I've never made a big deal out of putting a twitch on, but every horse I have ever seen has resistance to it.

As a couple of other people said, it releases endorphins because it causes pain. I'd rather not cause my horse to be in pain. I'm not a fluffy tree-hugger at all, just don't like to cause pain.

 

[Fiona]

I would twitch either of our mares if required ie to clip head or administer medicine on vets instruction..

Wouldn't ever try it on our pony though.. He is head shy due to bring abused as a youngster, so I think the trust I've built up with him over three years would be completely lost

Fiona

 

[EQUIDAE]

There's a lot of talk about endorphins being released in response to pain but they are also released in response to exercise and sexual arousal - it's not just pain. Acupuncture releases endorphins and from my experience it isn't painful.

 

[fburton]

If a horse/pony is already in a high state of nerves/stress/distress then twitching will not work, it needs to be done when horse still calm (and unsuspecting?!). Would any one else agree with this?

I would say that twitching is much less likely to work in such cases; I wouldn't go so far as saying it absolutely couldn't work.

Ear stripping or holding the ear are replications of a mare's actions to discipline an unruly foal. Similarly pinching a small fold of skin on the horse's shoulder.

To be honest, I have never seen a mare disciplining a foal in this way. Occasional biting or bite-like teeth contact, yes, but nothing like the ear stripping I mentioned, which is repeated and non-traumatic. (Furthermore, it is not resisted when done properly.)

 

[fburton]

Perhaps this is more of a conditioned response though. As in horse doesn't like it's head being clipped out. Twitch comes out, horse resists as knows said twitch will enable his head to be clipped out... In all of the horses that I have twitched (and across a 15 year professional career with horses) I have only come across one who will resist on the physical act of getting hold of the nose and that is the pony that I mentioned previously who will blow up, who is a very switched on and clever little mare.

Perhaps this is because we do not make a big deal out of putting a twitch on? It is done when horse is relaxed and before a stressful event has started? Playing devils advocate perhaps?

I would be very interested to know what proportion (roughly) of horses are non- or poor responders to twitching. My impression is that 10% at least, probably more, of horses don't respond in the 'normal' way i.e. enter a drowsy state with or without initial signs of resistance or discomfort - and this figure includes individuals that weren't obviously hyper or stressed beforehand.

 

[ester]

Regarding pain receptors and endorphins - are endorphins released when pain is present in horses? I know the release or introduction of endoprhins in humans can help release or at least dull pain but wondered if the same applied to horses and as such endorphins are released as a result of pain being caused by a twitch?

yup, got it in one

 

[ester]

There's a lot of talk about endorphins being released in response to pain but they are also released in response to exercise and sexual arousal - it's not just pain. Acupuncture releases endorphins and from my experience it isn't painful.

yup, but presumably the horses aren't sexually aroused or being exercised, they are having a having something squashed.
Acupuncture - fine needle hits very few receptors so pain experienced minimal but endorphins still release.

 

[smja]

My horse is known to be aggressive under sedation - if he's not unconscious, he will lash out if you touch him. With a twitch, we can get things done in a business-like manner with minimal risk.
Just to say, this horse is normally akin to a well-trained, affectionate dog and completely non-aggressive towards people. The reaction he had to sedation was unexpected and extreme, so we've never tried it again. I much prefer using a skin or old-fashioned nose twitch as required.

 

[EQUIDAE]

I'm a horrible owner - my boy loves having his lip played with as if I am twitching him. If I stop he nudges me until I carry on.

 

[HashRouge]

Did someone above mention the possibility of some horses experiencing the endorphin release quicker than others? This thread is definitely making me think that might be true - possibly the ones who seem to enjoy twitching are ones who experience the release very quickly. This is a theory based on no evidence whatsoever, but could it be possible that horses who fight the twitch are ones who are perhaps more dominant by nature and would be more likely to fight (i.e. with other horses, not lions!) rather than back down? The ones I've known who fought the twitch badly definitely had a dominant aspect to their personality, now that I think about it. I suppose in some ways it is the same as how a beating by an unscrupulous rider might subdue one horse but cause another to retaliate. I don't know if I'm managing to make sense here!

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

My old TB used to go absolutely mental with a twitch on. You were ok for about 2 minutes then his eyes would start rolling and he would start growling and stand straight up and box out with his front legs. We learnt this fairly quickly and realised that doping him might be the better option. It was actually really scary.

As a result - I dope horses that don't like being clipped with dormosedan. Far easier and safer!!!

 

[Wagtail]

Did someone above mention the possibility of some horses experiencing the endorphin release quicker than others? This thread is definitely making me think that might be true - possibly the ones who seem to enjoy twitching are ones who experience the release very quickly. This is a theory based on no evidence whatsoever, but could it be possible that horses who fight the twitch are ones who are perhaps more dominant by nature and would be more likely to fight (i.e. with other horses, not lions!) rather than back down? The ones I've known who fought the twitch badly definitely had a dominant aspect to their personality, now that I think about it. I suppose in some ways it is the same as how a beating by an unscrupulous rider might subdue one horse but cause another to retaliate. I don't know if I'm managing to make sense here!

Very interesting point about the dominance, but one which IME has not been the case. The 'twitch junky' of a cob that I described above, was one of the most dominant horses I have ever met. However, my TB gelding who hated the twitch, was also very dominant. I have found heavier breeds more receptive to it, but others have mentioned finer breeds that responded very well.

FBurton, I would guess at around 20% of horses not responding well to the twitch. This is in my experience only, and others may feel different. Half of that 20% I would say respond very negatively indeed, the other half may be reluctant to have it put on and it may not work well for them at all.

 

[LCH611]

I have 2 of these as well! One has only actually been twitched once to finish off clipping his face, the other is big, young and occasionally rather rude. He is not very stoic about pain and will threaten to go up if he is having something done that he objects to - like having a foot poultice. Consequently he is twitched, but will generally stand very meekly if you just grab his top lip, and tries to get you to do it again the moment you stop.

 

[Stockers]

In all my years around horses I have only ever had to use skin twitch on the neck and found it relatively effective - in this instance for running clippers up the side of the face.

I cannot abide ear-twitching. My (then) youngster had obviously had it applied badly to him at some point - I had to put his bridle on in piece as he would go absolutely postal if the headpirece skimmed the tips of his ears - the offside in particular. suspect thatthe ear twitch was used when he was backed. It took me the best part of three years and alot of polos to get him to allow me to bridle him in the correct manner and even then he won;t let anyone lese do it.

 

[EQUIDAE]

Very interesting point about the dominance, but one which IME has not been the case. The 'twitch junky' of a cob that I described above, was one of the most dominant horses I have ever met.

It's my stallion that loves it

 

[fburton]

I cannot abide ear-twitching. My (then) youngster had obviously had it applied badly to him at some point - I had to put his bridle on in piece as he would go absolutely postal if the headpirece skimmed the tips of his ears - the offside in particular. suspect thatthe ear twitch was used when he was backed. It took me the best part of three years and alot of polos to get him to allow me to bridle him in the correct manner and even then he won;t let anyone lese do it.

Agree that ear-twitching is a horrible practice capable of inflicting lasting damage, both physical and behavioural.

 

[benz]

Really interesting thread, have to admit to being fascinated by twitching and don't understand why it works. I do think with some horses it can become a learnt response over time, so less pressure is required for the same response? Sometimes even just touching or pinching the nose lightly with fingers.

I thought I'd also mention ear twitching because interestingly one of my horses at work who came from Argentina responds very well to holding the ear, the same as a 'normal' horse would for a nose twitch. He is not head shy is the least and is a dominant character. He doesn't respond at all to the nose twitch (neither violent nor sleepy) so if he is being difficult and treatment is required I will just hold the ear and he stays calm. It definitely feels more like a learnt behaviour in this instance.