How easily can you make money off a 'project' or a youngster...?

floradora09

floradora09

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As you can tell by title I'm on holiday and bored, so ended up wondering how easy it is to buy a 3yo or whatever and break it, compete it etc and sell it on as a 6/7 yo- if you would get any money return. I presume you wouldn't want to have it for too long, as that just means more profit being eaten up by livery/feed/farrier costs, so starting with a yearling would be quite uneconomical because you'd have to keep it for at least two years before staring any work with it. And I also presume that being experienced helps, as less money would need to be spent on lessons! What breed or age is better to buy? I'm guessing something with good breeding will always add value...

Discuss! :D
 
In the current market I wouldn't consider it at all if you have to pay livery costs, even then I think a profit is hard to come by unless you have something pretty decent.

A friend and I have a project at the moment and although we don't pay livery the costs of keeping her over the last winter have been high and i'm not sure she'll make us loads of money, lovely as she is.

I would say we do her properly though with wormers, feet, etc etc.

There would be more money to be made if you keep expenses to a bear minimum but as a youngster we believe its a false economy to skimp.

Prob not what you wanted to hear though.
 
The current market is fragile to say the least. There are some very good horses being advertised cheaply. By the the time you take into account the cost of keeping the project and the time you put in I would say it could go either way. You might be able to make a profit and might not. There is also the risk of something happening which means the horse fails the vet for the prospective purchaser. Good luck if you go down this route. I hope all goes well.
 
No experience - but I wouldnt think it could be easily done unless you had your own land, own hay etc or ran a yard whereby the economies of scale could be utilised. I would think you would be lucky to break even, that said it would be a good learning experience.
 
If you wanted a project, maybe advertise to break someone elses youngster for them? Then you wouldnt have the financial responsibility and you would be making more of a profit as youd be being paid for a service.
But i have no idea on how you would go about it or any insurance or anything you would need, just a thought!
 
wouldn't consider doing it if you are paying livery unless you are on grass livery or similar very cheap.

I tended to keep projects for 2-3 months before advertising so I knew them very well and tested them out thoroughly- shows, xc, hacking etc.

imo it's not worth doing unless you can clear at least £1500 profit after all costs (feed, farrier, show fees, wormers etc all add up) :)

in this market i would be looking for a 15.2-16hh about 5-8yrs old which is a straight horse but needs smartening up and a little bit of polish adding to flatwork etc but no issues.

I only did it short term to pay for the deposit on my house and pay for me to buy my 'own' horses and wouldn't do it now as selling is too much hassle! :)
 
I personally always buy project type horses. I have links to racing and love TB's. I say 'buy', i pick them up for free from racing yards as owners want to get rid due to the high expense of keeping a roughed off racehorse thats too slow anyway. Im picky, i'll have a look at a few, possibly something with an injury but i have to see something i like in the horse. I keep it for however long it takes and if it turns out to excel in a sphere, then i sell it into that. Im not a dealer and love giving racehorses a second chance in life. I keep them as a pet until they outgrow me with talent and find them a decent home. If no decent home comes along they do not go. Im fully aware that i may end up with one that is so quirky or difficult no one else will want them, and thats fine, they can stay with me forever. I have made a profit but that's not why i do it. I would never go into purchasing a horse just so i can make money off them - its about showing love and affection and creating a happy horse for me.
 
i was thinking about doing this as i am currently part loaning a horse and paying about £150 a month for rent and lessons etc i figured it out that if i bought a 5/6 yo for £2000 ish and had it for 6 months on grass livery i would have to sell it for £4000 just to break even. although for me it wasnt about making a profit just a relatively cheap way to own a horse and a project for my gap year. but i decided the risks were too big and i love coco so am happy atm :)
 
Tbh you need to be paying little or no livery. As an example my youngster was £2500 just before his 3rd birtday. Two years on I have been reliably informed that his proce tag would be £10k if he were sold by a pro, probably £7.5 if I were selling him. Howver he has probably cost me £250 a month.... for 24 months....bang goes any profit! If I had bought him to sell on (he isn't for sale though!) I would have kept him 1 year, maybe 18 months, looke at grass livery for first year or so and worked him more last summer and got a couple of affiliated results on his card and tried to sell for £7995 last autumn. still wouldn't have made much tho! I think as millitiger says you need to be turning them round in less than 6 months and be able to do all the work yourself and pay as little livery costs as poss!
 
Here's my costs

Pony one-flair bought April although I had done some work with her before. Paid 450, teeth 30, jabs started 60, witness 12, 3months livery about 50 (rent per acre had three on three acres) sold 650 she was 3yo walking, trotting small poles and hacking in company Welsh x ?hackney ?connemara ?trotter.
 
Sorry witness meant wormed.

Pony two my beautiful samba bought 850 sold her colt at foot for 250 to a friend, jabs and mite jab and scan 95ish, not in foal just fat, back 40 was fine, teeth 35 was bad, shoes 60 x 3 (sets since June) livery 300ish. Walking trotting pop small pole, cantering on hack single or alone, drives I found out no idea what to sell her for or if I will am totally in love but she's not what I want in a horse.
 
wouldn't entertain the idea unless i was loaded and just wanted a toy (which is the wrong way to look at a horse full stop).

keeping horses is getting increasingly expensive, people are skint therefore not paying what they used too for horses or looking for loans instead.
 
Not easily done, especially over the amount of time you plan to have one for. You will have to pay for 3-4 years worth of feed, livery, farrier treatment, wormers, saddle fitter and dentist treatment. Then obviously you will need some tack, rugs, other equipment etc. Then there is all the time you will need to put in to bring the horse on. I have one in to bring on and sell on at the moment, I am lucky enough to be able to keep my horses at home but have still ended up having to take her to a livery yard as I need the facilities to help me to school her, especially in the bad weather. Also, as she was very nervous although she had got used to me and my mum, I wanted her to be able to see more and gain confidence with other people handling her too. I have now spent almost double what I bought her for almost three months ago. I am hoping to put her up for sale in the next couple of weeks and although I should get a decent price for her, I certainly wont have made a profit. If you do decide to get a project, good luck though - it is very rewarding when you see them come on and improve after all of your hard work. :)
 
millitiger said:
wouldn't consider doing it if you are paying livery unless you are on grass livery or similar very cheap.

I tended to keep projects for 2-3 months before advertising so I knew them very well and tested them out thoroughly- shows, xc, hacking etc.

imo it's not worth doing unless you can clear at least £1500 profit after all costs (feed, farrier, show fees, wormers etc all add up) :)

in this market i would be looking for a 15.2-16hh about 5-8yrs old which is a straight horse but needs smartening up and a little bit of polish adding to flatwork etc but no issues.

I only did it short term to pay for the deposit on my house and pay for me to buy my 'own' horses and wouldn't do it now as selling is too much hassle! :)
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Very true! I hasten to add I'm not serious about this at the moment, as I only have the time and money for one horse atm, but it was something to think about maybe after uni. I'd only consider grass livery for most of the time (so prob over summer) as that's cheap.

I think people who are serious about getting money off a 'project' or whatever find something that they can get maximum price increase out of in the shortest possible time! In my own fantasy world I'd love to buy a quality youngster, break it and bring on etc and sell for a fortune after a few years, but in reality- I prob wouldn't do that greater job or something would happen in that time meaning it's worth much less- and I'd have cut all my profit from paying for upkeep!

Sounds like it's best to do something like millitiger suggested, although I (as of yet) haven't got any experience of choosing good horses to bring on, or any experience of bringing them on haha! Also it's a risk that I couldn't shift it and I'd be stuck with a horse I don't want.. especially in this market.

It's a shame really when you add it all up (well, lets face it, adding up horse costs is never a good plan!!) because it's nice to dream of doing a great job with a project or whatever and making a healthy profit, but in reality would be a false economy.

Unless of course, you had two budgets. A 'upkeep' budget that came out of monthly salary, used to pay for any horse you owned. (only have one horse) and a 'savings' budget which would be a lump sum in the bank. Then you could pick something up for say £1000, costs covered by 'horse upkeep' budget and sell on for £2500... then buy something for £2500, sell for £4000... and so on! Then you could afford a nice horse! Made sense in my head... but that's my way of looking at money.. Is this what you did millitiger?
 
floradora09 said:
Unless of course, you had two budgets. A 'upkeep' budget that came out of monthly salary, used to pay for any horse you owned. (only have one horse) and a 'savings' budget which would be a lump sum in the bank. Then you could pick something up for say £1000, costs covered by 'horse upkeep' budget and sell on for £2500... then buy something for £2500, sell for £4000... and so on! Then you could afford a nice horse! Made sense in my head... but that's my way of looking at money.. Is this what you did millitiger?
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I was buying for under £1k and selling for around £3.5-4k after about 3 months.

I had no livery as they were at home but this was offset by show costs, xc schooling, shoes, vaccinations, wormers etc.

I tended to turn an average £1800 clear profit which went straight in the bank.

On top of that I also had my £1k purchase price back in my pocket and would buy another at around that price.

Don't be tempted to go for flashy horses or youngsters with lots of 'potential' as the costs for producing them are much higher, the buyers expect more for their money, vettings are more stringent and the market you are selling to is smaller and more picky.

You want something that you can produce and sell as a proper alrounder- very safe and sane, hacks, jumps 3ft courses and scores well at Prelim/Novice dressage- a true RC horse.
Basically buy a proper straight horse who is great to hack, a little sluggish off the leg and 'furnish' it up with schooling and some rosettes from local shows.

There is much more of a market for safe, non-superstar horses and they are far easier to sell- I never bought anything as a project that I would have bought as my own horse.

The ones which were harder to sell were the more talented ones who were a little sharper to ride- not naughty at all but you would be surprised at how many people feel unsafe on a horse which is sharp off the aids so I learnt from the experience and bought less quality horses who were more laidback.
 
millitiger said:
I was buying for under £1k and selling for around £3.5-4k after about 3 months.

I had no livery as they were at home but this was offset by show costs, xc schooling, shoes, vaccinations, wormers etc.

I tended to turn an average £1800 clear profit which went straight in the bank.

On top of that I also had my £1k purchase price back in my pocket and would buy another at around that price.

Don't be tempted to go for flashy horses or youngsters with lots of 'potential' as the costs for producing them are much higher, the buyers expect more for their money, vettings are more stringent and the market you are selling to is smaller and more picky.

You want something that you can produce and sell as a proper alrounder- very safe and sane, hacks, jumps 3ft courses and scores well at Prelim/Novice dressage- a true RC horse.
Basically buy a proper straight horse who is great to hack, a little sluggish off the leg and 'furnish' it up with schooling and some rosettes from local shows.

There is much more of a market for safe, non-superstar horses and they are far easier to sell- I never bought anything as a project that I would have bought as my own horse.

The ones which were harder to sell were the more talented ones who were a little sharper to ride- not naughty at all but you would be surprised at how many people feel unsafe on a horse which is sharp off the aids so I learnt from the experience and bought less quality horses who were more laidback.
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I can't echo what militiger has said enough. I did one last summer, a fat underutilised 15hh MW nicely marked coloured. Bought for 1.5K, sold for 4.3K 4 months later. He had a £200 a month budget, this included cheap grass livery, shoes, wormer and RC mileage. He didn't get fed bar a handful of happy hoof! He took a month to sell as wasn't suitable for a complete numpty, next time I'd probably look for something even more kick-along.
So key things I would say if you want to turn a profit:
- Around 15.2hh mark
- MW native/ID x or LW cob
- Not pig ugly
- Very sweet to handle
- Must hack well and be good in traffic
- Mustn't have major flaws that would fail vetting

Then to maximise profit:
- Nothing too weak/underweight as you will need to input a lot more time and feed to get them right
- Something that lives off fresh air!
- Good feet so you can stretch shoeing interval or not shoe at all

The rest is down to you, get them able to trot around a prelim with their nose tucked in, responsive but not too responsive to leg aids, jump steadily around a course of small jumps. Join a RC and do as much as possible, local shows, go to sponsored rides etc. (mine went out virtually every weekend and won at both dressage & sj)

This sort of horse will make 3.5K, and depending on the quality and results along the way could even hit 5K. But you will need to advertise correctly and turn the horse out very professionally.
 
I do know people who do this but they have very strict ruling. 1. Very picky about what they buy and they buy with a view to selling on a certain type, so no big horses, older horses, anything that looks quirky or poss issues with conformation. 2. No real livery costs 3. Turn horse around in under 3 months. They are however, professionial and even they don't do it that often!

You could do what a friend did - loaned a pony for the summer that was out of work and needed sorting out. She paid the (grass) livery for the summer with the agreement that she would sell the pony come autumn before going away to Uni and take a % of the profits. This way she had a horse on loan for the summer, but she ended up with extra money before she went off to uni. Worked well for both parties as the pony wasn't a novice ride but she sorted it out, took it out to shows and put some history onto it which the owner wasn't in a position to do.
 
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