How far can money get you in riding? Pondering

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Cash

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Do you think it's possible be a really successful rider if you have average talent/ability, but a LOT of professional help, (resulting in 'artificially created' skills, learnt from hours of tuition and practice) push button horses..just generally everything 'right'? Or do you have to have that extra talent?

Similarly, is it possible to succeed highly if you are evidently talented, but aren't in the right situation, financially?

PS. Sorry, it's all rubbish really, i am bored. And BTW it's not me i'm thinking about, I have neither exceptional talent nor great amounts of money
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Just pondering after the last post I made regarding two of my friends who both have very different horsy situations.
 
i think without money of some description you will not get far, be it cold hard cash to buy the horses/instruction/transport or sponsors money. i also think without some degree of talent you will get stuck at a certain level, no matter how good your horse is
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Really, dyou think? Even if you're not particularly brave (particularly in the case of maybe eventing/racing or something 'high risk') or talented?
Hmmmm *starts writing advert: Rich Sponsor Wanted for 16yo Rider who is neither Talented Nor Especially Brave*
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Really, dyou think? Even if you're not particularly brave (particularly in the case of maybe eventing/racing or something 'high risk') or talented?
Hmmmm *starts writing advert: Rich Sponsor Wanted for 16yo Rider who is neither Talented Nor Especially Brave*
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I'll sponsor you hun
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. I can run to a packet of Rich Tea biscuits and a carrier bag - any good?
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Yes, definitely the top, at least in dressage. It is possible to be competitively successful at the highest levels if you have, behind you, a family who can afford the very best training (from the beginning, if possible!) and the very best horses.

I don't think it is bad, though -- in the same way that, as they say, most horses should be hypothetically 'trainable' to Grand Prix level, it's only fair that most riders should be 'trainable' to ride a GP test
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I'll sponsor you hun
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. I can run to a packet of Rich Tea biscuits and a carrier bag - any good?
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Hmmm. Throw in a packet of Hobnobs and you have yourself a deal.
Just until I get scouted by Mountain Horse or similar at the local unaff 2'9, you understand.
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In my opinion, you need money and a lot of luck to reach the top of any discepline (can't spell -sorry!) And then you need more luck to stay there. Talent does come into it at some point, but thats extra lucky!!
 
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Tim Gredley is proof that while money wil get you to the top of the sport but wont keep you there

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Ahhhh, Mr Gredley... what a particularly strange individual.... one date (very cheap one as it happens, you think he could have pushed the boat out) and I was running for the hills....
 
I certainly think you need some talent to compete "successfully" at the top level in most equestrian sports - certainly sowjumping and racing and I would think eventing. Sure having the money behind you makes it far far easier but you still need that sharpness in your riding skills to be competitive at the top levels.

As forthe other way round, if you really have the talent and have determination and a hell of a lot of luck then anything is possible. I have a good friend who competed at last years Euro sj champs. He didnt have financial backing as a youngster but by getting the right opportunities (and a lot of hard work) he managed to get himself into a situation where he had the right horses and a lot of success. Hes a very very natural and patient rider though.
 
To answer the first question, you would have to look at the likes of Zara Phillips and Ellen Whitaker. Does Ellen ever bring on/compete youngsters or difficult horses or is she always provided with ready made, tallented horses that someone else has done the donkey work on?

As to the second question, if you are really tallanted and are willing to work hard, a job on a good yard would probably lead to opportunities to compete and get noticed.
 
combination of both, ellen whitaker, zara, etc have money and talent (and a "name") but tim gredley and katie price are proof that youwont get there on money alone (tim much better than KP obviously!!)
and up and coming riders like scott brash-very very talented but stanley has SERIOUS amounts of cash to put behind scott although his talent is undeniable!!
 
I was discussing this the other day with friends!

Whilst you obviously need some level of talent, money plays a huge part. But so does time.

Money will buy you the expensive horse and lesssons, but money gives you the TIME required.

How many people can't get much further with their riding as they work a 9-5 job and just don't have the time to dedicate to their horses or their riding?

I know at least one rider who is working their way up to the 'top'. They obviously have a fair amount if talent, but mostly what they have are rich parents who are able to give them the TIME and money (and facilties and lessons) to dedicate to riding.

On the other hand I also know a couple of potenially VERY good riders who haven't got very far as they just don't have the backing required, either for time or money.
 
A really talented rider who is also smart, single minded and very hard working WILL probably make it.The Whitakers, Harvey Smith etc. were unknown once! Much easier if you have the money,of course.You will have the right ponies/horses and the right level of tuition from stage one.HOWEVER, you still have to work hard .The right pony in the beginning will be a sweatheart but they will get progressively more challenging as the riding skills/confidence increase.Ditto when moving onto horses.If you have a fall or a bad round, there is no sympathy, certainly not in the show jumping world! Only a world class bollocking .I saw one father of a very successful junior a few years ago (not the Whitakers) nearly knock his daughter off her feet for a mistake in the ring.Don't approve of that at all myself.As for Ellen.That mare she was riding at Olympia doesn't look a straight forward ride at all.She rode her well IMHO.
 
It depends on the person I guess. Someone very talented who hasn't got money will really struggle because unfortunately our sport requires quite a bit of money (you dont necessarily need to spend a fortune on a horse but just entry fees, travel etc. costs a lot). They'll need to work extremely hard so really I think it depends on how much they want it. That girl at Badminton did it didnt she - cant remember the name.

I think talent helps a lot but then I think a lot can be taught as well. Money does help greatly in competing, you basically cant progress without it!
 
You do need some talent, obv couldnt shove me into internatinal dressage! BUT I do think money plays a big part because obviously 2k isnt going to buy you an amazing advanced horse. Lets be honest, its easier to jump a schoolmaster etc... who cost an absolute fortune than some horse up for £1000 because it needs work
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Yes, definitely the top, at least in dressage. It is possible to be competitively successful at the highest levels if you have, behind you, a family who can afford the very best training (from the beginning, if possible!) and the very best horses.

I don't think it is bad, though -- in the same way that, as they say, most horses should be hypothetically 'trainable' to Grand Prix level, it's only fair that most riders should be 'trainable' to ride a GP test
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Totally agree with FB!! If you have the money you should start with really good horses. Really good horses are not horses that are capable of going to the Olympics which you can't ride one side of, really good horses are very balanced schoolmasters, appropriate for your level, who can teach you feel, who can allow you to develop a good position, etc. That way a rider with less natural talent can make up for it through hard work.
 
depends totally on the person. with luck, dedication, the right horse, and backing (okay, someone else's money, for training, support, transport, keep etc) you can get as far as Jeanette Brakewell has.
with unlimited funds and the absence of dedication, you get someone like Alice Bamford (remember her? she was going to be the next big thing on the GB Dr team), who gave up in spite of having all the facilities, money and horsepower (her father's horses were being ridden by Richard Davison iirc, remember Master JCB?) in the world. she decided that she'd rather do other things with her life - fair enough. she could have been in Laura Bechtolsheimer's situation, a few years ago, but didn't stick at it. i never saw her ride so have no idea if she could have been as good as LB though.
 
Yes, that's true too. One of my old YOs had had a huge network of support from the day she was born -- really top push-button ponies, live-in trainer, a yard built solely for her. When she moved on to horses it was the same, starting with several fantastic schoolmasters. I genuinely don't think she has ever ridden a horse who leans on your hand, or who is unbalanced... one of her greatest talents seems to be her fantastic sense of rhythm, but I often wonder whether that's caused by the fact that she grew up riding ponies/horses which were metronomes! She did go to school but, after school, she never had to find a job or work, because that would distract her from her dressage. She now is one of her country's best riders and has amazing success internationally.

Even 'hard work' is difficult to define; I'd probably say 'motivation'. When you have a yard with a live-in trainer and several grooms, and a string of successful, pleasant horses to compete, 'hard work' probably doesn't sound quite right -- it's not as if she had to muck out or get the horses ready or get up early! The one important positive attribute is definitely motivation, because this sort of people must have been rebellious teenagers (like the rest of us!) at some point and credit to them for not giving up just for the sake of upsetting their parents
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Money can get you pretty much where you want to be. I know of an eventer who has completed badminton and Burghley, on a couple of different horses, who TBH you cringe when you watch them ride. They have no sense of feel for the horse, and as soon as the horse doesn't go perfectly they have no idea what to do. This person comes from a hugely wealthy background, and they are fully supported by their family. They get any horse they want, plus a groom to go with it (said rider doesn't know how to tack up, and didn't know what ringworm was when the horses got it, so carried on taking them to events!) After getting round the 4*'s they decided to get some youngsters to bring on themselves, these horses have all the breeding, look stunning, and cant get round a PN!!!!!!!! One of the horses went to a decent young rider who won with it straightaway at Novice!!!! Need I say more?????????
 
To the person who said Zara Phillips only had ready-made horses- having watched her compete against my sister in a PN class on a youngster who really wasn't playing yet she managed to get a really decent round on it.

I think money will get you so far- even if you lack talent you need the skills and bravery because lets face it, you're not going to asj your horse to jump a fence that you are to terrified of doing. But people who can afford the schoolmasters and who do well with h
them aren't really to be begrudged- they (or their parents) have worked hard to get that money and support network...
 
I think it does help, but please read my story, tell me what you think.

My daughter and her best mate are on the same yard, 14 years old both of them and hugely competitive. Anyway, after a disappointing year with her old pony,during 2008 I bit the bullet and bought her a 6 year old 'made' eventer, who had been produced and bred by our YO and ridden by a well known event rider to PN level, the mare is exceptionally well balanced, has beautiful paces, jumps very well and is a xc machine, with an unblemished xc record, she cost me a lot of money (over 5 figures). My daughter and this mare clicked, she had plenty of lessons and had a good end of 2008 eventing and PC season with a win at PC Area eventing and some BE placing at intro. Anyway, she has had a fabulous year during 2009 and went to the PC Nationals. This year she is moving up to JRN Level. I do need to add I am not rich, but the company which I own sponsors her with entry fees paid and all my diesel paid.

Her best mate outgrow her old horse at roughly the same time so her mother bought her a very nice 'made' eventer. Said horse and rider have not really clicked, and I would add that the horse cost nearly as much as my daughter's. I have to say it my heart went out to the kid, they went out prepared and on the basis that there was a made horse. Needless to say, the results showed for themselves - they were not brilliant. The mother also put mega pressure on her to perform. There was a resultant loss of confidence and the poor kid gave up eventing last year as a bad lot.

Both of us as parents are in the sameish financial situtation - we are not rich, but have good jobs. Both girls trained their hearts out with the best instruction both us mums could afford and they both worked very, very hard. Can you see what I am trying to say?
 
NoSurrender, i'll join you in defending Zara, those who think she's just been plonked on good made horses don't know much about eventing imho, and have never seen her ride! yes, she's got 2 great instructors (her parents), and good sponsorship (probably in no small part due to who she is), yes, she's got 1 freakishly brilliant horse (Toytown), but she is also a VERY very good jockey.
SeeNoEvil, i agree - you need that bit of luck too. i wonder where Jeanette Brakewell would be now if she'd never been given the ride on Over To You, another freakish horse. One she trained and rode beautifully, don't get me wrong, all credit to her, but a horse that talented, that honest, that tough... gosh, send us all 1 that good, please God! (and all credit to Jonty Evans for turning the horse around as a youngster, if he hadn't done that, it might have rotted in a field for 15 years!) luck is always involved too imho.
 
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To the person who said Zara Phillips only had ready-made horses- having watched her compete against my sister in a PN class on a youngster who really wasn't playing yet she managed to get a really decent round on it.

I think money will get you so far- even if you lack talent you need the skills and bravery because lets face it, you're not going to asj your horse to jump a fence that you are to terrified of doing. But people who can afford the schoolmasters and who do well with h
them aren't really to be begrudged- they (or their parents) have worked hard to get that money and support network...

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I did not say that Zara only had ready made horses, I asked if she brought on her own youngsters, a question which you have answered.

As for families that have worked hard for their money, I don't think this really applies to Zara's family!
 
Kerillii I totally agree re Zara as well. As with my own daughter, we have just struck pure gold and I have been offered serious money for our mare, both within our PC branch and at BE events. The same comment could apply regarding anyone. My daughter is a talented jockey (but I know others nore talented at her age, without the horsepower), but we have got a total superstar mare, who is not only talented, but extremely beautiful, non mareish and has a lovely temperament, great to hack, box, shoe etc (she has got a bit of sweet itch though and has to be sedated to clip so not all perfect). We have just struck so lucky, and I do agree that the same would probably apply to a lot of professionals as well.
 
Just want make it clear I dont have a problem with tim I only used him as an example as most people have heard of him.
 
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