How far is too far -The worst thing your boss would make you do?

I think it depends on whether it was done during your normal working day or not. If you had the time to do it and were still able to leave on time, or got paid for any overtime I would be inclined to do it and not complain. I'd much rather be busy than hanging around getting bored!

Many years ago I worked for a family-owned business (not equestrian) and was paid a monthly rate, so no overtime pay. I worked each day 7am to 3pm, then had a break until 6pm and did a couple of hours more in the evening (the boss set the hours and routine). I lived on-site and one afternoon during my free time the boss called me downstairs. He'd been shopping, had bought about a dozen shirts and demanded that I iron all of them there and then. I was pretty cross about it, as he couldn't possibly wear all 12 that evening. I'd happily have ironed one for him to wear and done the rest the next day. But being 18 and naïve I did it. Another time I got called down to clear up some mess caused by a workman. I had (maybe still do!) a habit of sighing without realising it, and the boss interpreted it as a protest at being asked to do the work. He had a go at me and said "we" had all been working hard all day. He'd got up at mid-day and had been leaning against the wall "supervising" the workman for the afternoon. So I cleared up the mess. From then on though, I made sure that I went out during my free time so I wasn't available to be called. I left soon afterwards.

Don't get me wrong, I will always muck in and do pretty much anything that needs to be done, and I'll stay late if I'm asked to and am able to, and if the reason makes sense. But in the examples above I felt that a line had been crossed and that it was an expectation that they could call on me at any time because I was on-site, rather than being asked to do a favour. My attitude wasn't helped by being informed by their son that I was "just a servant"!!! I think sometimes it's the spirit in which you are asked that makes a big difference.
 
Last edited:
Without wishing to sound harsh OP and I don’t have any idea how long you’ve been a groom. But get used to doing things that you may consider ‘beneath you’.
I started out on the YT scheme and my first responsibilities were making sure the bins were put out and looking after the yard guard dog. Since then I worked my way up and worked for some tough people and tough jobs all over Europe. I’ve been head groom and yard manager and I still cleaned boots.
I’ve hand walked horses at 3am whilst travelling, hand fed one employers dog for 5 days when she went away and the d*mn thing went on hunger strike, I’ve fished randy grooms out of horseboxes at shows and on one memorable occasion directed 20 ‘ladies of the night’ onto a yacht for a party an employer was throwing.
 
I'm tempted to guess that your boss is generally exploitative ill-mannered and tight-fisted, all of which are cardinal sins and ones which grooms all too ofen have to put with.

If I'm right and he/she is an obnoxious pig, I can quite understand your jibbing, but perhaps it's time to find a nicer boss.

If I'm wrong, perhaps it's time to find another career.
 
Do you have a contract listing your duties? Not saying you are right or wrong to refuse but the only reason I ask is when I worked in a pharmacy for NHS all our contracts made the long list of duties then at the very end said "any other duties that may be required of you". So if my boss asked me to clean the windows I would have to do it even though it wasn't part of my "job".
 
I do think how the request was made is relevant, if it was hate to ask but would you mind then I probably would but a you're doing nowt, clean me boots would be a different matter.

At one company I worked for I did refused to make tea for visiting auditor due to the assumption that as I was female it was clearly my job! Took him to the kitchen and said there you go and left him there.
 
redredruby said:
Whilst that is very nice, it doesn't sound like the best use of your time for the benefit of the patients. Surely it would be better for a consultant to have spent that hour keeping up to date with latest research, contributing to hospital / government policy etc
Click to expand...

Blimey redredruby have you ever worked in a hospital? Maybe you don't know its part of registration to keep up to date with research etc and often down in ones own time!! Seems this is still going back to what makes a team player and sadly there seem to be a few who obviously aren't/don't think this helps the world go round.
 
Red-1 said:
I do think this is a age related thing, and I don't think this is a groom related thing.

In your example, however, I would count riding boots as equestrian equipment anyway, unless said boots were fashion boots?

Many examples given have not been to do with grooms.

I think it is an attitude towards work thing.
Click to expand...

Yes this.

I've been in the horse industry as an employee and employer for many years. I would never expect a member of staff to do anything I would not do myself - and let's face it, a lot of horse related tasks aren't that pleasant - and often I would do the cruddy jobs myself and give the staff something nicer to do. But having said that, I would not be impressed with someone who was too precious to do something more "menial" on the list of things to do :)

I used to really enjoy cleaning boots, whoever they belonged to - it was about the only time I got to sit down :D
 
I was very entertained by the question from the title - I would assume a grooms job is enabling or actually providing good turn out and riding boots are part of that. Just because you haven't done it before doesn't mean it is a job not to be done.

YO is paying and as with the other caveats of time allowed etc I wouldn't even think of this as unreasonable and had you said that 'it's not my job' to me upon asking I would be looking for you to move on or having a very detailed discussion as to what exactly you thought wasn't in your job description or in your general manner that would prevent you from doing such a simple task.
 
gallopingby said:
Blimey redredruby have you ever worked in a hospital? Maybe you don't know its part of registration to keep up to date with research etc and often down in ones own time!! Seems this is still going back to what makes a team player and sadly there seem to be a few who obviously aren't/don't think this helps the world go round.
Click to expand...

An important factor in good team work is appropriate resource management. Cleaning toilets and making cups of tea hardly seems the most effective use of a consultants skills.
 
redredruby said:
An important factor in good team work is appropriate resource management. Cleaning toilets and making cups of tea hardly seems the most effective use of a consultants skills.
Click to expand...

What about the overall positive perception such a small act can have on team morale? Short tasks like that a consultant couldn’t really do a proper chunk of skilled work. I get what you are saying but sometimes the ‘team’ mentality is the most productive long term
 
Quite possibly it is an age thing and I would consider myself "old school". I worked with horses for a couple of years, as a teenager, before going to uni and in general felt I had to work as part of a team doing any job required to contribute to the smooth running of the team.

My worst job was on a small yard with hunters and the owner's eventers. The set up was we each had a small yard to do and ideally there were three of us each with our own yard. As we were one member of staff short the owner was doing one yard herself. We started at 7am and were supposed to stop for breakfast at 8.30am for half an hour. Unfortunately the owner often hadn't finished her yard by then but had to go into the "big house" for 8.30am as Cook put breakfast on the table then so as head girl I had to finish her yard an go without my breakfast. I quickly learned to start at 6.30am to allow for this! We also had no wheelbarrows and had to carry the muck to the muck heap in large canvas sheets. The training towards my PC A test / BHS Stage 4 was never forthcoming and was supposed to be part of my "wages". I actually received no money but was excused from paying rent for the shared, damp, cold cottage I lived in although still had to put money in the electric meter. I worked 13 days non stop to get two days off to allow me to go home (a 3hr drive away). One day the owner had been away eventing, I had finished and checked all the yards and at 6.30pm I had cleaned myself up and was getting into my car to drive home when the owner arrived back and told me I had to unload her horse, deal with it and unload and clean the lorry while she went for a bath! That really was unfair IMO but nevertheless I did it.

Conversley one of my first members of staff, when I had my own yard, objected to tacking up a horse for me to ride even though I was busy with clients at the time. I'm afraid she didn't last long! I totally agree that some people do treat grooms unfairly but also feel it is the nature of the job that they should muck in and help with whatever is necessary. I have nothing but admiration for my staff who do this and value them immensley - I treat them with respect and would love to pay them more however the industry just does not allow for this and FWIW I make less than they do most of the time.
 
ycbm said:
So if this groom had fifteen minutes to spare and nothing which required their 'years of training and skill development' and was in the job description (like shoveling horse shyt), should they simply have been allowed to lean against a wall watching the world go by for that time, or should they earn their pay by doing something, anything, useful?


I think we should all start declaring our age on this one. I'll bet it's age related, like people are suggesting.
Click to expand...

Clearly you think that grooms are just shyt shovellers.

And no I don’t think people should sit around doing nothing but there are always extra stable jobs to do.

I’m nearly 50 so perhaps it’s only those born before the Boer war that think we should all be servants.
 
Last edited:
Sussexbythesea said:
Clearly you think that grooms are just shyt shovellers.

And no I don’t think people should sit around doing nothing but there are always extra stable jobs to do.

I’m nearly 50 so perhaps it’s only those born before the Boer war that think we should all be servants.
Click to expand...

No but if you are paid to do a physical job, you should be willing to do physical jobs during your working hour. Being a good groom is far more than mucking out. Everyone should be paid at least minimum wage, sick pay, and given safe working conditions, and fair breaks. But if being paid, and within working hours, expecting to clean equestrian items seems perfectly reasonable.

Unless it is going to tip into not taking breaks entitled to or working unpaid / unagreed overtime.
 
I'm going to be devils advocate and I hope I don't get shot down but...

Is there a scenario where a yard owner (employer) is concerned about a groom returning from being off sick, or has made it into work but is obviously not feeling 100%, and the YO has suggested tack and boot cleaning instead of heavy lifting or being outside in lashing rain. Or it could be a case where the groom is paid by the hour and the YO is trying to make sure the groom has enough work for the day, rather than sending them home early and with less money for that day.

I think it comes down to the individuals involved and the full situation, its difficult to judge either from a post on a forum.
 
the worst thing my daughter had to do was hand rake an arena. She did it. personally I thought it was outrageous. They where supposed to pay her at the end of the month ( at an agreed rate ) the day before she was due wages they said she didn't have enough experience to be paid, she would be allowed to carry on working for free, and they would pay her when they thought she had enough experience .I mean what ? So I picked her up, and she started working with me. Shes now a groom for a lovely lady, who values her. The only thing she wouldn't do was pick a dead baby owl out of a water trough
So as for cleaning a pair of boots, I don't think she would have minded that !
 
wingedhorse said:
No but if you are paid to do a physical job, you should be willing to do physical jobs during your working hour. Being a good groom is far more than mucking out. Everyone should be paid at least minimum wage, sick pay, and given safe working conditions, and fair breaks. But if being paid, and within working hours, expecting to clean equestrian items seems perfectly reasonable.

Unless it is going to tip into not taking breaks entitled to or working unpaid / unagreed overtime.
Click to expand...

If my job title was general dogsbody I’d expect to do anything.

Most grooms get jack as we all know. There are some good employers but they’re outweighed by the poor from what I’ve seen.
 
Given that a lot of horse related tasks are, let's face it, pretty disgusting, I really don't see a problem with cleaning a pair of boots. I'd far rather do that than move rubber mats or clean a sheath. But then I wouldn't have a problem with either of those things either. All part of what needs to be done on a yard.

Muck out and muck in!!
 
Sussexbythesea said:
Clearly you think that grooms are just shyt shovellers.
Click to expand...

Nothing I wrote gives you reason to assume that. It was a comparison. When the job involves shovelling shyt in amongst a range of activities, what on earth is the problem with cleaning a pair of boots?
 
As a groom the two things I would never do were clean boots or pick up dog poo unless it was on my terms.
If we were off to a show and I noticed boots were dirty I might wipe a cloth over them but there was just something about being told to do it that made me feel like a skivvy, brushing off muddy hunt coats or even sewing on buttons again I never had an issue with for some reason.
Same with dog mess, if there was the odd pile in the way I wouldn't just walk past it but for the majority of it if they wanted a dog they should clear up after, not my job!
 
I was once sent by my male boss to Boots to buy him sanitary pads to stop his pile medication from staining his underpants. That’s one that sticks in my mind.

Likewise the other boss who stood over me, took all the work I was doing off my desk, and handed me a handwritten order of service for his daughter’s wedding with the instruction to type it up and ‘make it look nice’. We were both public servants in a busy, underfunded Department.

In relation to the boot cleaning debate, I would say that expecting staff to perform duties over and above those set out in their JD (including the catch-all final paragraph in most JD’s) is very dependent on the employee’s level of engagement and the give-take relationship between employer and employee. So, as an employer, if you allow your employees a degree of autonomy and flexibility around how they do their work (able to nip to the post office during work time, start or finish flexibly if necessary etc) then it is absolutely reasonable to expect the same degree of flexibility in return. However, if you rule with a rod of iron and don’t give an inch, don’t expect your employees to be bending over backwards to accommodate you when you need something extra doing.
 
Sallyfinn said:
I'm a hospital consultant, an obstetrician and gynaecologist. I have a rather "specific skilll set" too! When I am not operating or seeing patients in clinic I have no problem with making beds, the tea, or washing up. I've even spent an hour cleaning the labour ward bathrooms and loos once. When I'm paid to be at work I'll work! It makes the world go round. And who wants to stand about looking like a lemon? I'm 42.
Click to expand...

Great attitude, and I struggle to see why another poster dislikes it. I doubt you could have done any meaningful research in an hour, and the support you give the ward will be repaid 150%.

OP, I have not trawled through your previous posting history, but a note of caution... Many people are easily recognised on this forum. If someone knows who you are IRL and also knows your employer than news does travel very fast.

If I were your employer and I found a thread where someone was complaining about a request I had made, and I could be identified, then that to me would be bringing your employer into disrepute. It would be hurtful. There would be a loss of trust. The horse world is a very small one.
 
ycbm said:
So if this groom had fifteen minutes to spare and nothing which required their 'years of training and skill development' and was in the job description (like shoveling horse shyt), should they simply have been allowed to lean against a wall watching the world go by for that time, or should they earn their pay by doing something, anything, useful?


I think we should all start declaring our age on this one. I'll bet it's age related, like people are suggesting.
Click to expand...

I dont think its an age thing, I'm in my early 30's and I also think that should have just gotten on with it.

When I worked as a groom I didnt think twice about cleaning riding boots if I were cleaning other tack at the same time.

I dont think any one who turned round to me and said "not my job" would be with us for very long at all.
A better response would have been "Sorry but I wont have time to clean them" or "Ok, if I get some spare time later"

I work in R&D, we had a cyber attack that meant no computers at all, which means no work can be done. So myself, my colleagues and my manager all ended up doing things like cleaning windows, sorting out cupboards, mopping the floor of the lab, attempting to remove stains from the lab work surfaces, sticking labels on samples etc.
 
Red-1 said:
Great attitude, and I struggle to see why another poster dislikes it. I doubt you could have done any meaningful research in an hour, and the support you give the ward will be repaid 150%.

OP, I have not trawled through your previous posting history, but a note of caution... Many people are easily recognised on this forum. If someone knows who you are IRL and also knows your employer than news does travel very fast.

If I were your employer and I found a thread where someone was complaining about a request I had made, and I could be identified, then that to me would be bringing your employer into disrepute. It would be hurtful. There would be a loss of trust. The horse world is a very small one.
Click to expand...

The employer would have a tough job proving that they could be identified on the basis of an anonymous poster, who could be anyone. And an even tougher job proving that any subsequent disciplinary action was reasonable given that they have no way to positively identify the poster. And, whether an anonymous post on an Internet forum along the lines of ‘I was asked to do x, I considered it to be outside of the scope of my duties’ could be interpreted as bringing an organisation into disrepute, is also highly debatable. If I was an ACAS advisor, I’d be advising employer and employee to have a frank an open discussion about what is and isn’t expected of the job role, and less about potential disciplinary action.
 
I am very old well passed retirement age but I think it is all a matter of respect you should never initially tell people to do thing should always ask and any job beyond the job description should be at the behest of the person who is prepared to do like I said I am happy and always was happy to do any job from cleaning up vomit in a pub loo to cleaning a dirty bytch house when I was a cleaner the house was filthy but that wasnt an issue but shyte up the walls in the bahroom and used condoms and sanitary towels make me think twice about how some people live. My job description was to sparkle clean new homes. I have done good jobs and bad jobs to earn money but always moved on when I lost respect for my employer or they treated my like rubbish just because they paid me
 
As a student vet nurse I was asked to do all kinds of horrible jobs, I would never have thought about questioning it because a) those jobs needed doing and b) the person asking was paying my wages.
 
Supertrooper said:
As a student vet nurse I was asked to do all kinds of horrible jobs, I would never have thought about questioning it because a) those jobs needed doing and b) the person asking was paying my wages.
Click to expand...

But what if the job didn’t actually need doing, and the person instructing you had no place asking you in the first place? I guess my question is where you’d draw the line? In my work, I deal with workplace conflict a lot. One of the main ways that conflict blows up is people not being clear with their boundaries: between big ‘ok’ with something one day and not necessarily ok with it on another day. Then, when boundaries are asserted, it’s usually when people are fed up with being taken for granted, although they’ve been fine with it up to that point. And then people get confused and feelings get hurt and people like me get called in to sort it out.

The OP asserting those boundaries (not doing something that they don’t believe is a necessary part of their role) is actually doing the right thing. It is now up to the employer how they address that. And, judging from the OP’s description of their reaction, it doesn’t sound like they did that particularly well.
 
It doesn't really bother me what I get asked to do so long as I'm getting paid because I always have the mind of 'while I'm doing that I'm not doing anything else'. A long time ago when I was working as a nanny I got asked to dag and pick maggots out of a couple of fly blown sheep which I was squeamish about at the time but am a lot less soft these days.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure it is an age thing, but may be wrong.

I used to work as a professional SJ groom and none of my three riders would have ever asked a groom to clean their riding boots. For some reason that fell into the category of things the rider was responsible for (possibly because grooms are grooms, not valets). I wouldn't have had a problem with it, I just never got asked to do it. For those suggesting that the OP should have just got on with it - maybe. However, having worked as a groom, I'm guessing that she had a to do list the length of her arm and didn't need one extra job. It's all very well saying if you're getting paid to do it, do it, but working as a groom is one of the only jobs I know where you are expected to do unpaid overtime. You have a certain number of jobs to do in a day, and if you don't finish them in the time you're still expected to them, but you (probably) won't get paid for your extra time.
 
HashRouge said:
I'm not sure it is an age thing, but may be wrong.

I used to work as a professional SJ groom and none of my three riders would have ever asked a groom to clean their riding boots. For some reason that fell into the category of things the rider was responsible for (possibly because grooms are grooms, not valets). I wouldn't have had a problem with it, I just never got asked to do it. For those suggesting that the OP should have just got on with it - maybe. However, having worked as a groom, I'm guessing that she had a to do list the length of her arm and didn't need one extra job. It's all very well saying if you're getting paid to do it, do it, but working as a groom is one of the only jobs I know where you are expected to do unpaid overtime. You have a certain number of jobs to do in a day, and if you don't finish them in the time you're still expected to them, but you (probably) won't get paid for your extra time.
Click to expand...

A great many jobs require you to work unpaid overtime.

Heck I work in R&D and it has always been in the contract of every job I’ve had that you are expected from time to time to do unpaid overtime to get the job done. It’s all part of having a salaried position
 
But in fairness being a groom is diametrically opposed to having a salaried position (unless you are INCREDIBLY lucky).

But you do (hopefully) do stuff you broadly love, and mucking in is as much a part as mucking out.

A bad employer can easily make people resentful.

But if as a (hopefully) decent employer I had NICELY asked a groom to clean a pair of boots and he/she had said no, the rest of their work would have to be pretty amazing to stop me speaking to an employment lawyer to find out how to get rid of them.

ETA:

Example

"I'm frantic today, could you please be a star and buff these boots up if you have a moment? Thanks". Good.

"Oh and clean these boots". BAD.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top