How hard is it to actually have your horse PTS.

If there was a hunt near to me, then I would use them. I am not confident about injection. My 4 year old with acute grass sickness,i.e. ready to 'hand in the towel', fought it badly for almost 5 minutes. I would have had him shot, but I wasn't prepared to wait another 4 hours, and the vet on call wasn't licensed to shoot.
I think many people unprepared for a struggle when they choose injection, and in my experience, it isn't uncommon for that to happen.
 
ozpoz said:
I think many people unprepared for a struggle when they choose injection, and in my experience, it isn't uncommon for that to happen.
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It's not uncommon in my experiance either and because I was a welfare officer I have seen more horses PTS than is normal for an owner.
 
Alphamare said:
I agree with joeanne too which is one of the reasons I asked as this get nurse seemed to think that charity or companion homes were preferable to PTS. Where as personally I wouldn't pass on a problem horse or a horse with problems and I would choose PTS as the responsible decision. Many on HHO don't agree with that though. I think POLLDARK is right too, the horse doesn't know it's been Pts. It would know about the life of pain and suffering though
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I, too, agree with POLLDARK, far better to be pts in the prime of life than passed around the low end sales week after week.
I wouldn't be happy to use a practice where a vet nurse voiced that opinion. I do think that many vets have been too influenced over the years by the insurance companies, who, understandably, won't pay out until all avenues have been explored.

Perhaps insurance companies should modify their stance a little - a friend had a colicking youngster taken to horsepital, obviously not getting any better - for her to be able to claim the insurnce the vet *had* to operate, even though he said that there was only a 10% chance of recovery. The youngster died during the op.
It would have been much better for all concerned, imo, to pts before the op. The insurance co would have benefitted too, as they would not have had to pay the vet as much for the 'treatment'.
There should be some room for the vet's professional opinion to be taken into account, although I fully understand that unscrupulous people might well pts willy-nilly and claim on their insurance, particularly in this financial climate, without rigorous checks.
I do think that vets, who are trained to cure if possible (and presumably went into the profession to do just that) can be reluctant to pts at the owner's request, for any species. Sometimes the owner, who knows the animal best, has to be firm at quality of life v quantity. Sometimes the vet is only giving the owner all the options and is quite relieved when pts is the choice.
If you really can't face having to persuade the vet, the hunt/knacker will come out by appointment and ask no questions.
Our vet has arranged the knacker for us in an emergency when a young horse was very ill to the point of being unsteady on her feet- I don't think that she fancied the idea of a 17hh Clydie landing on her while she tried to inject!

Having had a few pts over the years and seen the 2 who were injected struggling against it, whilst those who've been shot, either by hunt or knacker, have gone with their heads in a bucket of feed and known absolutely nothing about what was happening, I would always choose the bullet whenever possible.

I agree with OP that every horse owner should have a plan in place, so that in an emergency or other traumatic circumstance, there is no wondering what to do.
 
fburton said:
I'm very sorry to hear that. :( It is possible the injection was delivered too slowly - that is known to result in some cases in "thrashing about" and gasping (even though the horse will be unconscious by that stage).
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The 2 I've seen struggling definitely fought the injection, they struggled against going down, even though both were very ill at the time. One had a life-long hatred of injections, the other - 16.3 ID, had always been quite happy to be injected but definitely didn't like her last experience, which is why I prefer the bullet.
Yes there is often some movement after the heart has stopped but that doesn't look at all the same as a struggle beforehand.
 
Was the horse still conscious? That is all the matters as far as the horse is concerned. If the horse was still awake and conscious for more than a few seconds after the injection, then there was something wrong with the injection.

In any case, the chances of something go wrong with either injection or shooting are mercifully small. That's important for anyone facing the awful prospect of having their horse euthanized to keep in mind, to avoid unnecessary anxiety.
 
fburton said:
Was the horse still conscious? That is all the matters as far as the horse is concerned. If the horse was still awake and conscious for more than a few seconds after the injection, then there was something wrong with the injection.

In any case, the chances of something go wrong with either injection or shooting are mercifully small. That's important for anyone facing the awful prospect of having their horse euthanized to keep in mind, to avoid unnecessary anxiety.
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I have seen three definatly conscious on fighting to stay on their feet not nice at all.
I also don't think it's necessarily anything wrong with the injection it just that somes horses will to stay on their feet is stronger it looks completely different to unconscious movement.
 
Goldenstar said:
I have seen three definatly conscious on fighting to stay on their feet not nice at all.
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Then something went badly wrong, because that doesn't happen when a lethal anaesthetic overdose is given correctly. (And if the vet thought that a horse was unsuitable for injection for any reason, they should have said so.)

I also don't think it's necessarily anything wrong with the injection it just that somes horses will to stay on their feet is stronger it looks completely different to unconscious movement.
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To my knowledge, there's absolutely nothing wrong with injection! Whether one chooses it or shooting is a personal choice that should be respected, but I am concerned that the impression is being given that injection is somehow less reliable or more traumatic for the horse based on personal anecdotes which, while undoubtedly valid individually, tend to stand out more than the anecdotal reports of injections going smoothly. If there really are welfare concerns about pts by injection then wouldn't the guidelines to vets be amended to reflect that? As far as I can tell through my own conversations with vets, injection has become a more preferred option rather than less, as drug combinations have been refined to reduce the kind of 'aesthetic' (not anaesthetic!) issues that upset owners. There could still be a real problem with injection, making shooting preferable on clinical (rather than practical or 'political') grounds. If so, hard statistical evidence needs to be gathered and the veterinary profession needs to be petitioned to change their recommendations.
 
I had my horse PTS by injection 2 weeks ago today. He was sedated first-I then left. Husband stayed and he went very peacefully. This was a horse that was excellent to handle and in a place where I'd taken him for hand grazing every day for a few days before so it wasn't strange for him. If I had a horse that was needle shy or vet shy then I would possibly opt for a bullet and knackerman if that was available. we have no local hunt.

He was 11 and PTS due to melanoma. It became apparent there were some just inside of his rectum and I made the appointment in advance so not to risk colic or bleed out. My vet was very supportive and actually, they were growing daily so the timing was right.

How difficult was it? I am confident I did the right thing at the right time but it was and still is bloody hard.

I have seen horses PTS by gun and injection (and countless small animals-was a vet nurse for SA and equine). The only time I've seen it go wrong was with a (a very experienced equine) vet and a gun.Should I now say that the bullet is always wrong?There's no nice way to kill something-people shouldn't be judged for their choices.

A few days before I had mine PTS, someone mentioned on here that a knackerman said that many horses done by injection were still alive when he picked them up. That really helped. They couldn't come and collect him for a couple of hours so I went and sat with him for a bit-to double check.
 
It's hard but also very easy. If you truly love your horse and are totally selfless then you know when it is the right time. My old boy lost all his spark and his eyes told me it was time. It completely broke my heart as I adored him but it was the right thing to do. I did have doubts about it but they were purely selfish doubts as I didn't want to give him up and wanted him in my life a bit longer.

I asked my vets opinion but nothing they would have said would have changed my mind. As it was they agreed with me.
 
Lost my mare in Feb this year and it was the hardest thing I've ever had to go through and the pain will never leave me. I wasn't there for her when she needed me, which made the decision 1 million times harder but I knew she was suffering. I will never forgive myself for the way it happened and do not wish it on anyone but its just one of those things when owning horses, or any animal for that matter that could and might happen. Anyone that is there for there horse at this sad time, I envy you, as I never got to say my final goodbye when she needed me most :'(

Sorry for the miserable post, just brought back a lot of nightmares, but it is the hardest thing you will go through being a horse lover and owner x
 
I would always choose the vets over the knackers , just my preference. At least when the vet has been I can arrange for my boy to go to the pet crematorium rather than flung in the back of a truck with whatever other animals the knacker has shot that day !!
Also where would his body end up after all this horse meat scandal , as obviously the passports aren't worth the paper they are written on.
Vets all the way for me , my vets wouldn't question my decision to PTS unless there was nothing wrong with the horse , then who wouldn't .
 
It is very easy - you call the hunt and they come out and do the deed. It is always a shot though, but personally my thoughts on that are that the horse knows no difference. The shot is instant but visually messy.
 
fburton said:
Was the horse still conscious? That is all the matters as far as the horse is concerned. If the horse was still awake and conscious for more than a few seconds after the injection, then there was something wrong with the injection.

In any case, the chances of something go wrong with either injection or shooting are mercifully small. That's important for anyone facing the awful prospect of having their horse euthanized to keep in mind, to avoid unnecessary anxiety.
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I'd be very surprised if an unconscious horse could rear, so yes - definitely conscious in the case of my ID who was suffering from septicaemia, so not anywhere near systemically healthy at the time.

But I do argree fb, that the important thing is that the owner makes the decision and does the deed in a timely manner. The end result is the same for the horse and any problem is likely to be for a short time only. The choice is really for the comfort of the owner. I prefer the instaneity (Is that a word?) of the bullet and really couldn't care less what happens to the body afterwards. Our local Equine Crem will shoot and remove the body immediately, offering a choice then of a group or an individual cremation with the ashes back. I don't want them - they're not the horse I had the relationship with, so that suits me. It may not suit others.
 
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Both my ponies ended their days with me.

Harry was PTS in July 2006. He had severe laminitis, and you could see that he had given up on life. We got the equine vet out (my dad is a vet for DEFRA so whenever some specific horse problem came up, we'd get the equine vet out) who said we could try to treat or call it a day. Farrier came out, said we could try to treat, but when he walked down the road with my dad he told him there was only one option. In the five minutes it took for my dad to return, I, aged 18, had decided that I was going to say goodbye. I couldn't profess to love Harry and yet make him go through months of suffering that might be for nothing. I don't understand how anyone can. My dad wanted to call out his knackerman friend, but I didn't want him shot. My dad, bless him, put him to sleep for me, and I wished I'd had him shot. Both my dad and I were bawling our eyes out throughout, and I'm starting to bawl now!

My pony Misty who I got when I was 11, was my first pony. At 35, she'd still take off with me out on hacks, she didn't look 35, she didn't think she was 35. One day when my mum and I were out, we got a phone call from my dad saying she had gone down. We rushed back. My dad had got the vet out, who had felt around inside and said there was something growing inside, probably a melanoma or lipoma, that had decided on that day to block everything up. He said we could operate, but that ideally they needed to be 7, not 35. He said to my mum that he hoped I'd make the right decision. I'd always said the day she needed surgery would be the day I'd say goodbye. We got her into her stable, and even though she was strongly sedated you could see she was still in pain. I didn't want her PTS, but my dad said it could be hours before the knackerman could make it out, and that she'd be suffering throughout that wait. It was much easier than with Harry, as she was already lying down. I was holding her head as she went.

I'd say it's the hardest decision to make, and yet the easiest. You're deciding to release your friend from suffering.
 
mcnaughty said:
It is very easy - you call the hunt and they come out and do the deed. It is always a shot though, but personally my thoughts on that are that the horse knows no difference. The shot is instant but visually messy.
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There was no more blood on the yard after ID was pts by injection than when we've had others shot. We keep Labradors on the same yard and have always been able to clean up quickly and easily, without the labs bothering with the site shortly afterwards.
Our 1st horse was shot by the local knackerman over 30 yrs ago and he was 'bled' on site, so that the meat could be used. Fortunately the farmer whose land he was on had daughters of a similar age to sis and I and dealt with it all for us (we were there for the shooting but sent away immediately afterwards).
 
Pearlsasinger said:
But I do argree fb, that the important thing is that the owner makes the decision and does the deed in a timely manner. The end result is the same for the horse and any problem is likely to be for a short time only. The choice is really for the comfort of the owner. I prefer the instaneity (Is that a word?) of the bullet and really couldn't care less what happens to the body afterwards. Our local Equine Crem will shoot and remove the body immediately, offering a choice then of a group or an individual cremation with the ashes back. I don't want them - they're not the horse I had the relationship with, so that suits me. It may not suit others.
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I wouldn't argue with that, and respect your point of view.
 
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