How hard is too hard? Whips

M

Mbronze

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Now I always ride with a schooling whip when I am working my mare and use it to tap her up behind my leg if i think she is being lazy.
Yesterday she was being a downright madam throwing herself around and bucking, so i warned her with a good sharp kick, then my voice to which she didn't stop. So i pulled her up and gave her a quick whack on the bum to which she bucked again, I let the reins go loose walked her round for a circle to calm down picked her up again and she stopped all silly behaviour for the rest of the session.
I got off and saw a lovely whip mark across her bum
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which was obviously from me telling her who was boss. I now feel really cruel, to be honest i didn't think i gave her a hard whack. This is a very rare occurance that we had an arguement, but she is a bit of a madam and i was only trying to assert authority.
So how hard is too hard, I did basically brush the mark off her but just felt bad that a mark was made at all...
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If it brushed off rather than being a wheal then TBH you probably just caught the hair at a funny angle, much like the effect you get when doing quarter marks. Of course I am now fully expecting to be labelled a horse beater with you
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I think some horses are more sensitive than others, I bet the same 'hit' on another horse would not have made a mark at all. I wouldn't worry, if you feel it had the desired effect and she won't show that behaviour again then its all good.

Better one good one, instead of niggling with your legs constantly or tap, tap, tapping with the whip all the time. imho anyway!

Horses play rough with each other, I am sure you haven't hurt her.
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I have only once really hit Monty in anger - it was after he broke lose and duffed up my car. I went over and caught him and whacked him as hard as I could five times on the arse. I then burst into tears since I felt like a horrible horrible person who should never be let loose near an animal. I was sobbing in my car and my OH came over and got me. He led me over to Monty and ran my hands all over where the marks were. Monty didn't flinch, he wasn't sore, and he wasn't afraid of me.......in fact all was forgotten about a minute after I did it.

I have never done it again and I still feel guilty but it did make me feel better that I hadn't really hurt him and all was instantly forgotten.

I'm sure it stings when you give them a whack - there wouldn't be much point doing it if they couldn't feel it but I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. I personally think a short sharp smack occasionally is better than pulling the horse around and digging it in the ribs constantly.

(gets ready to be eaten alive for crimes against ponies)
 
SpottedCat, i think it must have been the funny angle because it brushed off but i have actually never seen a whip mark on a horse and it kind of horrified me for a moment that it was there, until it brushed out.
Stencilface it did have the desired effect she stopped arguing with me, you are right about the rough play though, she is a sensitive mare though, in mind and body!!
 
My friend managed to mark her horse with her spurs on his sides, and up his shoulders and his neck. This is because he napped and ditched her on a fence, so it that respect, I think it was more his fault!!
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I was at a show the other day and one of the horses got hit repeatedly for whinnying!!!! which left huge whelt marks all over its bum.

That in my opinion is unecessary and too hard!!

A smack for really misbehaving is sometimes necessary. Don't beat yourself up about it. The fact that she behaved the rest of the lesson shows it was needed
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I was at a show the other day and one of the horses got hit repeatedly for whinnying!!!! which left huge whelt marks all over its bum.



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Mine will occasionally get a slap down the shoulder for neighing, or a kick in the ribs for neighing when warming up at a show. Plus his neigh is ridiculous and he sounds like a pig!!

But he is nine and should know better than to neigh throughout a dressage test
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Yeah, mine have been known to get a slap down the shoulder for calling to other horses at shows. When it's time to work, it's time to work i'm afraid!

Only time i've actually marked a horse with a whip was when someone had given me a horse they weren't happy handling. They told me he was turning his back end on them and threatening to kick (sometimes actually kicking) when they tried to catch him. The first time i went in and he tried it on me he got a very sharp crack on the bum with a lunge whip.
It didn't kill him, he never tried it again and he actually turned out to be a really lovely pony
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ETS: I think i came across a bit evil in my post! I don't even ride with a whip 99% of the time. They're pretty much the only two occasions in the last 5 years (6 horses) i can remember even carrying one!
 
There is a differance in a slap on the shoulder to remind them to pay attention to you and hitting it so hard it leaves multiple welts! you could even see that she had used a flat ended jumping whip as the marks left were that shape.
 
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i dont fink u shoul smak orses people wot do r wimps who cant controll them properly

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my word when did the trolls use of the english language become so appaling?!

anyhoo hard enough for a warning to bear purpose but not to leave whelts

a whip should be used as a back up aid should the horse not be paying attention IMO NOT as a punishment device (not suggesting this is what OP did in anyway, think that may come across in the wrong way so ill just clear that up now)
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i dont fink u shoul smak orses people wot do r wimps who cant controll them properly

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Love that pic - poor kitty - hee hee!!!
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I am going to differ in agreement. A whip is an aid, not a method of punishment for any horse.

To pull up a horse to hit it is wrong, the whip is there to encourage the horse to go forward, be light off the leg not to make them stand then hit them, that gives no clear aid whatsoever, you may find the different behaviour came from not the whack you gave her, but you felt less stressed, dropped your reins and the mare relaxed for you.

A schooling whip is designed to be used when in the hand to back up leg aids, not to give a good slap with, that is misuse of a whip. You wouldnt stand and watch some jab a horse with spurs, that is not the intended use.

I am not a bunny hugger, but it seems to me more and more people are losing the art of riding and resorting to a kick and slap rather than standing back and seeing why you have the problem.

As for the mark it does sound as though you took the hair in the wrong direction, but that does not excuse misuse of an aid.
 
I'm afraid i have to agree with scally.

It's confusing to mix aids like this, if i use a schooling whip/crop it is when the horse won't go forwards, or perhaps to tap the back end over if my leg is being ignored. To pull a horse up and then give it a whack is unfair.

If the mark brushed off it probably wasn't too hard, but IMO was still used incorrectly.

It makes me wonder why you did that and THEN let her calm down... might have worked just as well for you both to chill without the whip.
 
mmmm yes. I didn't read that she had been pulled up and than smacked. I have to agree a schooling whip is a forward aide to reinforce your leg aid if needed.

But we all do things in frustration that we really shouldn't so I wouldn't worry about it as no harm done.
 
I wouldn't worry about hurting her but i would worry that she understood what she was being hit for.
I only ever use my schooling whip to back up my fat feeble legs when on board but have used a short whip to smack hovis on the ground if he was pulling, refusing to stand still etc.
i'm not talking about a beating, it didn't leave marks and he still loves me! But he is a big big lad and he was taught some respect very early on. Even now i will wack him with the end of the leadrope if he doesn't respond to a simple "no"! He knows what he's done wrong and wha the punishment is for.

What i hate to see is people hitting thier horses on th shoulder whilst the horse is going over a jump. Now THAT drives me crackers.
 
Try hitting yourself and seeing how much it hurts - then remember that a horse's skin is super-sensitive. I'm not being nasty, I've smacked horses including my own, but people often just don't realise what they are doing and how much force they are using. My own mare has a criss-cross of whip marks on her flank clearly inflicted by someone who lost their temper with her. Annoying and exasperating though she is, there was never a need for that surely? I prefer to let rip vocally.
 
I can see your point. I only really posted to make the OP feel better. It is terrible to hit a horse in anger but we are all human and sometimes lose our tempers, my point was that she hasn't hurt the horse so not to worry unduly about it.

Just out of interest - I do use my whip as a punishment in certain circumstances. Eg - Any messing around on the road gets a smack and also when Monty bucks he gets a smack (but only if I'm quick enough since I think you only have a certain timeframe when they understand why they are being smacked). I'm not a horse-beater and luckily these days I have very little cause to smack Monty but would be interested to hear what others do in these circumstances if whips should not be used for punishment.

I don't EVER ride with a whip on Zoom since she doesn't need one.
 
Yes, how do people tell their horses enough is enough if they or bucking, napping being a general pain in the bum etc if you do not use a whip?

I dont carry one with my horse, I dont need to but I wouldnt hesitate to give one a smack if I felt it justified. You have half ton of horse to handle there.
 
Indded and as long as you pretty much instantly give them a smack then I'm fine with it. What i like to think though is by responding quickly they know what it is they are being smacked for. Its like puppys etc - they have to know what the punishment was for otherwise there is no point.
i do not advocate bashing horses - in fact i lost my instructor a client because at a show i watched her daughter ride out of the ring and set about beating her horse with the handle end of her whip on the head. Needless to say i wasn't backwards about expressing my opinion and she has never been back to our yard
 
Agree that it is unlikely you've permanently damaged your mare but equally probably not your finest equestrian hour.

It is much harder for a horse to buck if it is going forward so maybe you could try using the sharp kick (followed by a tap if she doesn't respond) to send her on next time? Go up a pace if necessary. That way both leg & whip clearly remain forward aids and she learns that messing around = more work.

As with kids/anything else winding you up remaining in control of yourself is the first (and sometimes hardest!) part of the battle.
 
I did pull her up from a trot to smack her, she was going sideways and i thought that i had given her plenty of warning before with my leg and voice. I smacked her once she pulled up and said 'no' very sternly again.
I gave her the rein to just cool down for a moment, but yes in hindsight perhaps walking for a few circles was the best idea, but hindsight is a great thing.
I know you shouldn't smack a horse in anger, but it happens and i wasn't overly angry just naffed off that she refused to cooperate.
Today i rode her and she tried the same thing again, down the same part of the school and i just said 'no' and because she anticipated perhaps getting smacked she straightened up again, so no need for whip again i hope in that kind of situation.
 
I have weak legs (am disabled) and have to ride with a whip for leg aids. I use it to tickle my mare (soft tapping) behind my leg to get her to go forward if she starts ignoring my voice
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think she would probably buck me off if I used it in anger
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Don't be too hard on yourself MB. I am not suggesting that everyone go round beating their horses but I think in certain circumstances a smack is a good way of nipping bad behaviour in the bud before it escalates.

Anyone who thinks that just remaining calm and relaxed during a full-scale Monty tantrum is a good plan would end up on their arse!
 
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