How important do you think an outline is?

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I think the problem is that the positioning of the neck and head as such have little to do with the outline. A horse working correctly is working through his back and from behind which allows it to carry the weight of the rider in the best possible way. For me, this means that working in an outline is equally important for any ridden activity, but can be interpreted in different ways, e.g. working long and low on a hack, or working in a more collected outline schooling. A horse that is not working in an outline at all (in this way) does not offer the rider an control at all other than yanking it in the mouth (or simply being well behaved because the horse is inclined to be this way in the first place).
 
I use it as part of schooling, but with lots of other things too. I have a novice endurance horse, and most of his work is hacking, stamina or interval training. However at least once, maybe even twice a week we do a "normal" schooling session where he is asked to engage himself, work correctly from behind and carry himself correctly. I am a firm believer that working him correctly, albeit only some of the time, leads to a far more supple, better balanced and fitter horse. And we're talking endurance here, which is not exactly famous for "outline" work.

However, I too am definitely not in favour of pulling the head in without engaging the back end - which alas one sees far, far too often.
 
Absolutely - I think this has just become about semantics.

I think everyone agrees that a horses head shouldn't be pulled in, and that aiming for relaxation, rhythm, engagement and balance is something we should all aspire to!
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In the school I always aim for an outline and then let her cool with a long rein. My mare goes much better in the school when in an outline as she's more balanaced, otherwise she does a good giraffe pose and belts about in canter.

On a hack I let her do her what she wants. Only time I ask her to work on the bit hacking is when I know she's going to spook. It works as a handy distraction to the up and coming scary tractor etc. She'll usually walk past the tractor if I do this because she's thinking and listening to what I'm asking her. My horse isn't a particularly well schooled girl, so it's not just a dressage thing.
 
I think that there is nothing more pleasant than to ride a well schooled and supple horse - with schooling you get manners - which when out hacking (especially on main roads where we are) it's essential that the horse is "with you" - I don't think it's so much "getting the horse on the bit" as that makes an image of twiddling the head down - but I do think it's important to have your horse on your aids
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Kate x
 
I put "it is something I am working towards" because I believe, like AmyMay, that most horses, if ridden correctly will 'fall' into an outline naturally.

My instructor says the key to achieve a true outline is to ride the horse forward from the leg into hands that are so kind that the horse naturally wants to soften his head, relax and look for the contact. All this fiddling and sawing achieve nothing more than a tense horse looking miserable with his head tucked in.

Our 4 year old exmoor pony is a case in point. He has never been asked to work in an outline, it simply isn't necessary for his level of work (riding school) and when I rode him the other day I certainly wasn't trying to achieve any sort of "outline". I was, however trying to persuade him to balance himself more from his inside hock and soften to the inside on a circle to make him a more balanced comfortable ride for the novices. Yet within 15mins, he was trotting and cantering 'in an outline' without me even *thinking* about trying to achieve it.

I think it should be a goal with all riders but becoming totally hung up on it rapidly seems to me to lead to too much hand and not enough basic schooling off the leg. JMHO
 
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You have to consider why working a horse in an outline was originally brought in.

It's not just to pose and look attratcive, a horse working in a correct outline is in balance and carrying its rider in the easiest way for its physique. Letting a horse slop along not in balance is doing far more harm than good.

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Totally agree - even out on hacks I make mine work correctly and stretch their toplines. I do give them lots of breaks when schooling but when they are working they have to work correctly. Especially the one with the sacroiliac injury - I originally thought it would be better to let him go on the forehand but have been told by the vet (and numerous people on here) that he has to have a strong topline and work from behind even if it hurts as otherwise he wouldnt be able to carry himself and a rider at all.
 
If you constantly focus on "working in an outline" then you are unlikely to achieve it as it is a product of correct training and engagement, as mentioned above by several people. If you follow the scales of training the outline should be a natural consequence. Whether you want the horse in a test outline or to follow the hands down into long and low, it should be possible as the horse is driving from the back leg into the front end, the back should be supple and swinging, and the horse should then have good self carriage and will not lean on the rider's hands.

The theory is all very well though, I think the rider needs to be very aware of their own body in order to achieve this in the horse's body. Without proper use of the seat, hands, legs and back you cannot expect the horse to work correctly through his body.

Not every horse is necessarily built to find this work EASY, but every horse has natural ability which can be IMPROVED with time and patience, in order to transfer more weight to the back end, supple the back and yes, I do think it helps horses stay healthy and last longer.
 
The tb I have will not work naturally in an outline and he is quite well schoole, however the cob x tb i had, never really had any schooling, but when you got him in the school he brought his head in naturally.
 
I always saw it as something to saim to achieve - to have the horse working correctly. My first horse was REALLY hard to get to work in an outline, but after months she finally did.

Beau however naturally works in an outline (the poll and top part of neck as highest point) but he also likes to over bend and do his own impression of rollkur! But he will usually have his nose pokin gout a bit, which I dont mind as thats better than evading me - pretty looking or not!)
 
i put is part of my schooling along with other stuff
tbh im not particulary bothered about working in an outline as i think as long as they have nice balanced paces with a good rythm then their ok
i work tabby in an outline when schooling. when i brought her back into work she wasnt used to working in an outline so she would work in one for a few minutes then her head would shoot up and her back would hollow but that was fine i didnt expect her to be perfect straight away and she was using different muscles than she usually did. now that those muscles have built up she will happily work in an outline i dont have to ask but if i tense up her head comes up and i just relax and squeeze the reins (not see saw i hate that!) push her forwards and she comes back. she can be very strong but has a sensitive mouth and luckily i have been told that i have very light and quiet hands (maybe too light sometimes!) so we work well together. Out hacking i dont bother and let her stretch out and relax that is what hacking is for! sometimes out hacking she goes into an outline herself and will trot along happily its the same with jumping i concentrate more on the jumps and then she will go into an outline herself.
it really annoys me when you see people sawing at horses mouths and their heads go from side to side although i have to say i do saw a little bit at shows when tabby is in a "i dont want to work there are other horses here! ooh jumps aswell yay lets jump mum" mode
 
I like to work my horse in an outline, however would quantify that by saying that dressage is my thing. I do think that people get too obsessed with 'outline' and forget that before you have outline you should have forwardness and rythmn, if you get an outline by simply wiggling the reins or having your hands down by your knees, then it is a false outline and you are doing your horse no good at all.

I would much rather see a green or prelim horse going forward in a rythmn with his nose in front of the vertical than a horse forced into an outline. To the uninitiated this looks 'pretty' but is very very incorrect.
 
With Pip is is essential for me to keep him on a decent outline. Poking his nose, as he naturally does he is almost uncontolable and so appulingly balanced its unbeleivable.He does keep himself on an outline though, unless you throw him all the contact.
The main aim of me riding all the little ponies is to improve there way of going. All of them except Bob carry there heads on the verticle, but all of them ecept Bob also are very prone to putting themselves behind the contact and hollowing.
TBH I think being as 'unhollow' as possable is much more important than the 'outline'. However once the horse is accepting a rider and strong enough they will be able to be supple and fall on a good outline.
The one this worse than an 'ugly' chronic nose poker is a horse forced on an outline.
 
I agree, an outline (if working from behind and forwards and relaxed) is something to be strived for. Though definately not see-sawing

The only time that I have ever put my hands lower (he shoulder height) to help a horse go into a contact was when she was very stiff (she had broken her shoulder earlier in her life) and I just let my hands and reins act like side-reins and let her relax into them (she can go in front of the vertical if she wants to, just getting her to release the muscles at the withers) whilst pushing her forwards from behind. I do a lot of transitions and bending with her in this position and she really softens into a contact when I come to ask her for a more normal contact. She is lazy and cheek and bucks but because she is so stiff she wants to get the tension out. However once she has the tension out she relaxes and stops bucking etc.

I woud say goes with what works but ulitiamtely I feel that if your horse is happy and relaxed you must be doing something right.
 
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