How important is 'type' in your breed/your breeding programme?

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htobago

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As per title, really - my question was prompted by a brief discussion on another thread about 'breed type' and its importance in IDs, Trakehners and Arabs.

I learned, for example, that the Trakehner stud book/breeders had gone through a phase of over-emphasis on 'type', at the expense of 'function' - and are now trying to redress the balance.

Many people feel that Arab breeding and showing suffers from an excessive focus on type. There seems to be (relatively) rather less emphasis on type in IDs, judging by the scoring systems, although there has been a shift towards a more 'modern', less stocky type..

So - just curious about the relative importance given to 'type' in other breeds? And how important is it to you as a breeder? And whether there are/have been changes in the preferred 'type' within your breed?
 
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Many people feel that Arab breeding and showing suffers from an excessive focus on type.

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I feel that way about Arab breeding in this country, I think its a shame that Arabs have a reputation for not being jumpers in this country... but my personal opinion is this reputation has come about from excessive focus on type but its my personal opinion. If you look at Arabs on the continent, they are far more likely to be found competing as well as showing, when I was researching jumping pony breeding I was amazed by the amount of Arab blood used on the contient and it changed my opinion on the Arab forever
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I breed New Forest ponies and type is important. Typeness is part of the Society's grading criteria weighted at approx 20% and all stallions have to gain a minimum mark in each section to gain their license.

This enables them to retain the hardiness & bone and prevents them becoming more of a sports pony type.
 
Well I suppose I have an ideal 'type' in my head that I am working towards, and one of the reasons I breed Trakehners is I like their breed type, so yes I do aim towards that.

But there are so many other considerations in choosing a stallion, that type is only a part of it. Actually I think the Trakehner typeness, is actually the stamp of conformation I want anyway, so the two go hand in hand.
 
Hmmm well my breeding programme is at a close now, I won't be breeding from B again in the near future and I have no plans to find another broodmare. That said, my 'type' would be a free, active moving horse, who is tall and leggy. A good head and length of rein is important, as is a good length of hip. I'm not fussed by big extravagent paces, as long as the hind leg is active and the paces free and correct. No idea how successful I have been in achieveing this, as I've only bred 2 of my own and H is only 2 now.
 
I think that when you are breeding for the show ring ie Arab, Shetland, Welsh, ID , New Forest, to name but a few, 'type' must me an important factor as that is what the judges use to evaluate your horses, there is a strict set of guide lines for them to follow. As I am not from the showing world, I could be wrong, but that is what I am led to believe.

As I breed for a discipline, dressage and showjumping, I personally don't think that 'type' is a factor in my breeding program. The dressage horses I breed have to move, and the jumpers have to jump. I of course also want horses with good temperaments and confirmation, but 'type' is immaterial to me.

I actually don't understand when they say it is of true showjumping or dressage 'type', if it does the job then it is a good horse regardless of what type it is.

I do however, prefer certain proven blood lines over others, so that might be seen as breeding a 'type' of horse.

For me power and athleticism in a horse is important, I will not sacrifice one over the other.

So I suppose the 'type' I want to breed is a powerful, athletic horse that does the job I bred it for.


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Many people feel that Arab breeding and showing suffers from an excessive focus on type.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel that way about Arab breeding in this country, I think its a shame that Arabs have a reputation for not being jumpers in this country... but my personal opinion is this reputation has come about from excessive focus on type but its my personal opinion. If you look at Arabs on the continent, they are far more likely to be found competing as well as showing, when I was researching jumping pony breeding I was amazed by the amount of Arab blood used on the contient and it changed my opinion on the Arab forever
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The reputation for not jumping is indeed a big shame - and totally unfair! Didn't you have a super pure-bred Arab (French-bred) international jumping pony stallion that you had to advertise here as just a jumping pony, without giving his breed? I stupidly can't remember his name - was it Ousbek or something like that?

Just come back from watching my boy loose-jumping, and if Arabs can't jump, I must have been hallucinating, cos he looked bl**dy good to me!
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I breed New Forest ponies and type is important. Typeness is part of the Society's grading criteria weighted at approx 20% and all stallions have to gain a minimum mark in each section to gain their license.

This enables them to retain the hardiness & bone and prevents them becoming more of a sports pony type.

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That's interesting. Arabs don't have gradings, but in the (international) in-hand show ring the weighting given to type is effectively 40%. Officially it's only 20%, but as the 'head and neck' category is judged entirely on type, it is really 40%. Some people feel this is waaaay too much. I don't know of any other breed that is judged 40% on type!!!
 
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Well I suppose I have an ideal 'type' in my head that I am working towards, and one of the reasons I breed Trakehners is I like their breed type, so yes I do aim towards that.

But there are so many other considerations in choosing a stallion, that type is only a part of it. Actually I think the Trakehner typeness, is actually the stamp of conformation I want anyway, so the two go hand in hand.

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Thanks! But did I understand correctly about the phase of over-emphasis on type and beauty that affected Trak breeding? And if so, was this due to a higher 'weighting' being given to type in gradings and shows? And how have they gone about redressing the balance towards a greater emphasis on 'funtion'?

(Sorry to bombard you with questions! Just being insatiably curious, as usual.
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Many people feel that Arab breeding and showing suffers from an excessive focus on type.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel that way about Arab breeding in this country, I think its a shame that Arabs have a reputation for not being jumpers in this country... but my personal opinion is this reputation has come about from excessive focus on type but its my personal opinion. If you look at Arabs on the continent, they are far more likely to be found competing as well as showing, when I was researching jumping pony breeding I was amazed by the amount of Arab blood used on the contient and it changed my opinion on the Arab forever
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

The reputation for not jumping is indeed a big shame - and totally unfair! Didn't you have a super pure-bred Arab (French-bred) international jumping pony stallion that you had to advertise here as just a jumping pony, without giving his breed? I stupidly can't remember his name - was it Ousbek or something like that?

Just come back from watching my boy loose-jumping, and if Arabs can't jump, I must have been hallucinating, cos he looked bl**dy good to me!
wink.gif


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People would run for the hills at the mention of the words of show jumping and Arab in the same sentence lol!

Ousbek was indeed pure bred Arab, his sire Arzew sired many Show Jumpers in France.

Georgeo II is also Arab cross.

In France there are some amazing jumping ponies with Arab blood Aron N being probably one of my favs
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Don't get me started on ponies htobago... i've given up breeding them... I concentrating on the horses
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*Teffy thinks must stop thinking about ponies...must stop thinking about ponies...must stop thinking about ponies*
 
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Thanks! But did I understand correctly about the phase of over-emphasis on type and beauty that affected Trak breeding? And if so, was this due to a higher 'weighting' being given to type in gradings and shows? And how have they gone about redressing the balance towards a greater emphasis on 'funtion'?

(Sorry to bombard you with questions! Just being insatiably curious, as usual.
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)

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I think colts were getting graded that didnt have enough elasticity in their movement but where essentially very beautiful. I am not sure how the stallin grading points egt split but for the mare gradings the marks are out of ten for Type, Frame, Limbs, Walk, trot, canter, overall impression. So a maximum of 70, with 10 for type and I suppose type might play a part in the overall impression bit.
 
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I breed New Forest ponies and type is important. Typeness is part of the Society's grading criteria weighted at approx 20% and all stallions have to gain a minimum mark in each section to gain their license.

This enables them to retain the hardiness & bone and prevents them becoming more of a sports pony type.

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Totally agree. I was once physically assaulted after I put a very overbodied lacking in bone NF at the bottom of the line in a M&M in-hand class. When the owner asked me why I haddone that I said it lacked type and I wouldn't give it much of a chance of staying sound when running free in the forest through all the trappy bits of woodland (actually it looked at though its legs would break if it tripped over a twig) and before my steward could stop her she took a swing at me! It's obviously not only in evaluating that judges run physical risks!
 
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Totally agree. I was once physically assaulted after I put a very overbodied lacking in bone NF at the bottom of the line in a M&M in-hand class. When the owner asked me why I haddone that I said it lacked type and I wouldn't give it much of a chance of staying sound when running free in the forest through all the trappy bits of woodland (actually it looked at though its legs would break if it tripped over a twig) and before my steward could stop her she took a swing at me! It's obviously not only in evaluating that judges run physical risks!

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That's horrendous behaviour.... Thankfully most of the M&M people I meet are a friendly bunch. I hope your steward managed to intervene? Luckily I have not experienced that level of agression while judging....
 
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That's horrendous behaviour.... Thankfully most of the M&M people I meet are a friendly bunch. I hope your steward managed to intervene? Luckily I have not experienced that level of agression while judging....

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Very capable steward -- she shows and stewards Afghan Hounds at Championship level as well and you have to be pretty quick thinking and tough to do that. She sent my assailant out of the ring pretty smartish and we did hear a rumour afterwards that it was not the first time that she had done that. OTOH it was a small local show and they are often by far the worst and I certainly didn't mean to imply that M&M exhibitors were ever normally like that.

However I did hear that there was a spectacular punch up at the NPS Show at Malvern a few years ago and that the police had to be called to split the people up! At least we haven't had that at the Futurity so far yet :-)
 
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....I certainly didn't mean to imply that M&M exhibitors were ever normally like that.

However I did hear that there was a spectacular punch up at the NPS Show at Malvern a few years ago and that the police had to be called to split the people up! At least we haven't had that at the Futurity so far yet :-)

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Oh I didn't think for a minute you were implying anything other than the competitor was outrageous. I am sure there are 'types' like that in all avenues of competing.

... don't utter those words about the Futurity... you never know
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