How lame is too lame for retired horse?

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Marigold4

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I have a lovely unridden mare aged 14 years. I backed her aged 8 but discovered issues caused by an injury sustained as a yearling, so she was retired. She is a lovely horse and no trouble to keep. She is 1, possibly 2/10th, lame on her left fore on a circle. Not lame in a straight line. Sore on left fore on a hard surface. Had the physio today and she has sore, tight muscles in both shoulders and over her quarters. She has physio work about every 3 months and she is more sore than she has been, although the muscle tightness has been there for months. The lameness is a new thing. Not sure I want to spend £££s on having vet investigations when they are unlikely to find anything that is treatable. Trimmer says no hoof issue and this has been going on long enough for it not to be a hoof abcess.

Would it be OK to put her on bute long term? At what point do you think it becomes unethical to keep a lame horse going? The horses are kept at home so no great expense to keep her going and she is much loved.
 
I had my old boy with ringbone on bute for a couple of years. Its basically a case of keeping an eye and making sure you are honest with yourself about whether they are happy. He was... until he wasn't. It was actually pretty obvious when it tipped over so I upped the bute and bawled my eyes out calling the vet.
 
Marigold4 said:
I have a lovely unridden mare aged 14 years. I backed her aged 8 but discovered issues caused by an injury sustained as a yearling, so she was retired. She is a lovely horse and no trouble to keep. She is 1, possibly 2/10th, lame on her left fore on a circle. Not lame in a straight line. Sore on left fore on a hard surface. Had the physio today and she has sore, tight muscles in both shoulders and over her quarters. She has physio work about every 3 months and she is more sore than she has been, although the muscle tightness has been there for months. The lameness is a new thing. Not sure I want to spend £££s on having vet investigations when they are unlikely to find anything that is treatable. Trimmer says no hoof issue and this has been going on long enough for it not to be a hoof abcess.

Would it be OK to put her on bute long term? At what point do you think it becomes unethical to keep a lame horse going? The horses are kept at home so no great expense to keep her going and she is much loved.
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You'll need the vet out as they won't prescribe the likes of bute unless they see the animal.
 
It’s never ethical to keep a lame horse going long term unless the lameness can be resolved.

In a retired horse, it’s fine if they need bute long term to make them comfortable,
but I would always run a new presentation of lameness past my vets first. It’s possible she’s had a tumble in the field and tweaked herself, but pretty much anything could be going on.

My mare got really sore and reactive in her back when she had her major dental issues. She’s been grand since her two infected incisors were removed. She’d been holding herself wonky trying to avoid the pain.
 
Definitely get vet out. You can suggest a Bute trial. If horse is comfortable then there's no requirement to PTS. Horses can go for around two years on bute before it affects their kidneys. You could also try something like no bute or boswellia. I have no experience myself of these but know of others who say they are good and effective. 2/10 lame isn't much, you should be able to make your horse comfortable and give it a good quality of life I think.
 
Tiddlypom said:
It’s never ethical to keep a lame horse going long term unless the lameness can be resolved.

In a retired horse, it’s fine if they need bute long term to make them comfortable,
but I would always run a new presentation of lameness past my vets first. It’s possible she’s had a tumble in the field and tweaked herself, but pretty much anything could be going on.

My mare got really sore and reactive in her back when she had her major dental issues. She’s been grand since her two infected incisors were removed. She’d been holding herself wonky trying to avoid the pain.
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I don't think she's had a fall. The muscle stiffness has been there for months, particularly in shoulders. She's always been a little iffy stepping on a stone or from soft to hard on that front fore, so I think it's a long-term issue that is catching up with her. But who knows. She's not been properly lame up to now though. I think I will get the vet out and may be x-ray her front left to see if we can see what's going on. I'll give it a few days to see if the physio work has done any good. I'll see what she thinks about bute.
 
My previous horse was on bute for over 8 years, it was only 1/2 sachet a day. She'd had all her treatment and was only low level hacking in the last five years of her life, but she only had one issue in all those years and that was a mouth ulcer although we only guessed it was from the bute as it can do this.

She was eventually retired due to a persistent reoccurring issue, and pts 6 months later when we couldn't maintain her pain relief. Marigold don't worry about long term bute use. Current boy who is retired in a large herd and lives out 24/7 went on bute over last winter due to reoccurring foot abscesses. As soon as the spring came he was fine again.

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In a similar situation and having the same ethical/moral dilemmas.

After we lost mum's TBs to cellulitis probably weren't thinking straight when we loaned an ex trotter.

Got him seen by vet, physio, trimmer and attempted EDT visit (horse wouldn't let him close) and it was apparent that he was very broken and going to be expensive to fix. With that in mind approached owner and said either we buy him for £1 or he needs to go back.

We still have him and he's been £££. Physio had never seen such a broken and atrophied horse. Got vet to his mouth and he had a fracture thst was infected so he went to a dental clinic to get that removed and 3 weekly check ups for a while. He was a "famous" trotter because he won so much and a trotting friend knows the horse and what he's had done to him DIY with drugs smuggled in from Canada. He's also had one round of vet hock injections.

Since ongoing rehab he's always been "fine" but the wheels were always going to come off. Maybe a couple of months back now he went nodding lame in front. No obvious cause and called the vet. Vet reached same conclusion that's it's wear & tear related.

He's had a broken pedal bone (although vet thinks something more because hoof has healed long and narrow ans apparently that's not typical) and appears to have suffered blunt force trauma in his chest. So very wonky.

Same as you there was lots of questioning the ethics of keeping him going. Definitely weren't going down the further investigation route because we wouldn't pursue joint injections etc.

With the vets support he's been put onto a cheaper alternative to bute. We started him on 1x twice a day and now he's on 0.5 sachets twice a day (so 1 full sachet). He's comfortable, not head nodding lame and bright. When he was initially lame he lagged behind the others, didn't join in their games and was dour.

Our conclusion is he can have as long as he wants as long as he is comfortable on 1 sachet. When his pain levels exceed the painkilling effect of the drugs we'll make the call.

He's back to [his] normal now in the field. His hocks are bound to catch up to him at some point too. Working with the vet because it's hard when you see a horse every day to have a good base level of acceptable vs their normal.

This winter will no doubt have an impact. He's in overnight (loves his stable. Will turn back and go into it while the others go out in the morning) and still getting all hid normal level of care. He'll never be ridden again, I personally don't agree with riding a horse that needs a painkiller to be field sound, but he can have as long as his body is comfortable for him.
 
I have a retired horse. He would be lame ridden. He’s currently on no bute and I won’t be putting him on it.
He 99% of the time looks great in the field and if happy. If I feel he needs bute to be comfortable I will call it a day, this is simply because I can’t afford to medicate long term for no reason really so this has been my decision.
I think though if you are enjoying having her round and are happy to pay for it there is nothing at all wrong with a bit of bute long term to keep her happy.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
@TPO he is so so lucky to have landed up with you. I am sure from your very caring post about him that you will make the right decision at the right time for him and you. I wish there were more owners like you out there.🙁
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Thanks 🥹. It just sucks when you can't fix them.

Our judgement is definitely clouded after the saga with Vinnie. When it needs done it'll be done but it's tough facing losing another. We've always been quite "agricultural" about not allowing suffering and putting them first.

This was the first real time that, I don't know how to word it, that we couldn't face losing another. Not that we've ever been OK about making thr decision at any other time. In all but one the decision was the only decision, in the one it was a case of he was "ok" but it would only be downhill from that point. I think the whole Vinnie situation was so hideous thst it's still quite raw and Max is his doppelganger, right down to the wee sock.

Thankfully not there yet, he's very comfortable on one painkiller. But when the time does come all of that needs to get pushed aside because he has to come first.

Why couldn't I have taken up knitting as a hobby instead of horses?! I'm sure I'd cry less!!
 
TPO said:
In a similar situation and having the same ethical/moral dilemmas.

After we lost mum's TBs to cellulitis probably weren't thinking straight when we loaned an ex trotter.

Got him seen by vet, physio, trimmer and attempted EDT visit (horse wouldn't let him close) and it was apparent that he was very broken and going to be expensive to fix. With that in mind approached owner and said either we buy him for £1 or he needs to go back.

We still have him and he's been £££. Physio had never seen such a broken and atrophied horse. Got vet to his mouth and he had a fracture thst was infected so he went to a dental clinic to get that removed and 3 weekly check ups for a while. He was a "famous" trotter because he won so much and a trotting friend knows the horse and what he's had done to him DIY with drugs smuggled in from Canada. He's also had one round of vet hock injections.

Since ongoing rehab he's always been "fine" but the wheels were always going to come off. Maybe a couple of months back now he went nodding lame in front. No obvious cause and called the vet. Vet reached same conclusion that's it's wear & tear related.

He's had a broken pedal bone (although vet thinks something more because hoof has healed long and narrow ans apparently that's not typical) and appears to have suffered blunt force trauma in his chest. So very wonky.

Same as you there was lots of questioning the ethics of keeping him going. Definitely weren't going down the further investigation route because we wouldn't pursue joint injections etc.

With the vets support he's been put onto a cheaper alternative to bute. We started him on 1x twice a day and now he's on 0.5 sachets twice a day (so 1 full sachet). He's comfortable, not head nodding lame and bright. When he was initially lame he lagged behind the others, didn't join in their games and was dour.

Our conclusion is he can have as long as he wants as long as he is comfortable on 1 sachet. When his pain levels exceed the painkilling effect of the drugs we'll make the call.

He's back to [his] normal now in the field. His hocks are bound to catch up to him at some point too. Working with the vet because it's hard when you see a horse every day to have a good base level of acceptable vs their normal.

This winter will no doubt have an impact. He's in overnight (loves his stable. Will turn back and go into it while the others go out in the morning) and still getting all hid normal level of care. He'll never be ridden again, I personally don't agree with riding a horse that needs a painkiller to be field sound, but he can have as long as his body is comfortable for him.
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It is really difficult, isn't it? You sound as though you have done a great job caring for this poor chap. My mare looks so very well. Shiny, well-covered, relaxed. I will do everything I can to get her comfortable as I would really hate to lose her.
 
TPO said:
Thanks 🥹. It just sucks when you can't fix them.

Our judgement is definitely clouded after the saga with Vinnie. When it needs done it'll be done but it's tough facing losing another. We've always been quite "agricultural" about not allowing suffering and putting them first.

This was the first real time that, I don't know how to word it, that we couldn't face losing another. Not that we've ever been OK about making thr decision at any other time. In all but one the decision was the only decision, in the one it was a case of he was "ok" but it would only be downhill from that point. I think the whole Vinnie situation was so hideous thst it's still quite raw and Max is his doppelganger, right down to the wee sock.

Thankfully not there yet, he's very comfortable on one painkiller. But when the time does come all of that needs to get pushed aside because he has to come first.

Why couldn't I have taken up knitting as a hobby instead of horses?! I'm sure I'd cry less!!
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It is very tough. I have just lost by beloved dog two weeks ago too and not sure I can face losing this lovely girl. I'll have to do what's right for her but hopefully some bute will see her through a bit longer.
 
I don’t totally agree with those that feel any degree of lameness is unacceptable. I’m pretty lame sometimes myself and would rather you didn’t shoot me. A very slight lameness, only on a circle of hard ground, doesn’t sound like it has to be the end of life for a field kept retired horse, especially if it improves with bute or alternatives. Personally I would be watching her to see if she seems happy, keeps weight on, behaves normally in the field.
 
My retired horse was on danillon for years with no side effects. I don't think 2/10 lame on a circle and hard surface and retired is a problem if they look perky and happy. One of mine looks fine most of the time but if he is too stupid in the field is probably 3/10 lame for a while until it settles. Fortunately now he is older he is not as silly so I haven't seen him lame for a couple of years - but I bet he would be on a circle. And I assume you mean trotting and not just walking?
 
My vet advised me that you can keep a horse on a low dose of bute for many years. I currently have one who has now retired. He is on boswellia and 1 bute every other day. It keeps him comfortable and he is happy to join in the high jinks with the others out in the field. He actually looks sound 99% of the time but I know he has arthritis in his knees and hocks.

In answer to your question my cut off point would be a horse needing a high daily does of bute or one who no longer interacts with their field companions.
 
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Abacus said:
I don’t totally agree with those that feel any degree of lameness is unacceptable. I’m pretty lame sometimes myself and would rather you didn’t shoot me. A very slight lameness, only on a circle of hard ground, doesn’t sound like it has to be the end of life for a field kept retired horse, especially if it improves with bute or alternatives. Personally I would be watching her to see if she seems happy, keeps weight on, behaves normally in the field.
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I agree
 
Thanks, everyone for responding. Encouraging news about using danilon/bute to keep her comfortable long term. I'll get the vet out next week and see what she thinks. I wouldn't be too adverse to spending money on blocking that leg. My guess is that it is in the foot, but we will see. It's not something I've had to consider before and, as I keep the horses at home, I don't have much of a sounding board so grateful for this sounding board.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
We had a mare with arthritis on bute for several years, she was meant to be doing gentle hacking but didn't understand that so we retired her to the field.
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Snap I have a mare like that ! Walking hacks around village and woods were rather hair raising . Once I was comfortable with new horse I retired her expecting it to be short and sweet but she is as happy as larry , keeps her weight sensible and will gallop off up field with new horse on her one a day bute. Talked to vet about maybe taking her off it but he said as she is doing well leave it alone she has twice year blood tests to check all is well.
 
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