How little turnout can they live with?

Unlimited grazing and rolling green fields aren't necessary - all weather turnout areas (pea gravel/woodchip/sand) are just as good, or even better in the mud/wet or come spring.

I did get to the point where I felt so guilty at my horses having no turnout that I decided I'd either find a field for them or sell them to someone who could provide a better environment than I could. Thankfully I now have 3 living out 24/7 and two stabled at night but out all day everyday. TBH I'd rather they lived out 24/7 too but I also need an outdoor school - so the search goes on for a yard where I can have both
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I would not go to a yard that did not have turnout every day, even if it was just for a few hours. Ours are out from between 8am and 8.30am and 1pm absoloute minimum, usually till about 3.30. Not the ideal situation, but I do not think it is fair for a horse to not be turned out at least 5 times a week. The people who have no turnout Nov- May...
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I think that I would rather not have horses. Maybe my views will change, but at the moment, no way could I keep a horse like that. Plus surely those who have 2/3yrs olds in 24/7, I'd be interested to know how much that would affect their legs and development, and if there was a link to what work they would stand up to in later life, or if they break down earlier/ later?
 
None of mine are in 24/7. They go out in the arena in the afternoons for as long as possible, once the ones that need to be worked in there are worked.

You make the best of the situation you have. My fields are also on clay and 90% of the time are under water or a skating ring at this time of year. I would rather they had time out on sand than be stood in that.

The three year olds I have in have come into work from Nov, will work through winter and be turned away in summer, 6 months of limited turnout is not going to affect their future!
 
But the thing is with our yard that technically there is winter turnout - restricted, yes, but still some. But the weather has made it impossible at the moment. I can't imagine it drying up very soon either. It is a nightmare, but I don't really think it is reason enough for me to sell my horse.
 
When I first had horses back in the 1970's, no self respecting farmer would let horses on his land from the end of October to the first of May. There were no 'arenas' to school in then either. We all coped with the situation by hacking out (at night or in the early morning with lots of lights on) as much as possible. The horses seemed to adapt to it well enough- I think we worry too much these days as there is too much choice. In those days there was no choice and you just got on with it.
 
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Do you think they will do job lots I have 7 I can't possibly keep!
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Can you add a 17.2hh bossy mare to that?

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Ah you see she'll be bossy because she doesn't get out enough
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My lad was on box rest back in Sept for laminitis, having previously been out on restricted grazing 24/7. He tolerated a week of it and then went rapidly down hill, started weaving, box walking manically and stopped eating altogether, he was very depressed and the vets advised early turnout in a tiny paddock during the day in a bid for him to pick up a bit and start eating again. It was pretty desparate at times and I always thought he would be fine in for long periods so long as he had hay to eat...how wrong I was!
He is still on restricted and strip grazed grazing and once he eats what grass is provided it tends to turn to mud then as I am on sopping wet clay soil! But he will be out each day come what may, unless frosty and is happier put away in his stable for the night then. He also has access to his stable in the day if he wants to go in and eat hay, so at least he is not wallowing in mud all the time.
I hate seeing the state of my field but know that it will recover and then I will have too much grass again before long!
 
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When I first had horses back in the 1970's, no self respecting farmer would let horses on his land from the end of October to the first of May. There were no 'arenas' to school in then either. We all coped with the situation by hacking out (at night or in the early morning with lots of lights on) as much as possible. The horses seemed to adapt to it well enough- I think we worry too much these days as there is too much choice. In those days there was no choice and you just got on with it.

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We used to pin fire horses and have tight bearing reins on driving horses (just ask Black Beauty!) - just because things were okay once doesn't mean they should still be accepted practice. The problem isn't too much choice but too little - how many people would refuse turnout for their horses if they had the option?
 
My pony was in a 3/4 acre field last year with a dry stable to go in whenever she liked ,when it got very muddy in february someone reported me to the rspa although she was in very good condition and very happy .
 
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We used to pin fire horses and have tight bearing reins on driving horses (just ask Black Beauty!) - just because things were okay once doesn't mean they should still be accepted practice. The problem isn't too much choice but too little - how many people would refuse turnout for their horses if they had the option?

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So practically speaking, what do you suggest us with less than ideal turnout should do?
 
Sell our horses of course, Little Flea! Havent you got the gist by now? Anyone who is incapable of offering a horse at least 8 hours' turnout every day deserves to be reported to the RSPCA/WHW and should not own a horse...
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So practically speaking, what do you suggest us with less than ideal turnout should do?

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I've been in that situation but last winter I decided enough was enough. I managed to find a field to rent - it was twice as far to drive, zero facilities, I left a lot of friends on the livery yard I was at, but it was four acres all to myself. I'd never wintered horses out before and was worried how they'd adapt but my horses have never been healthier or happier. And watching them last winter - seeing the amount they moved round during the day made me realise just how much of a sacrifice they make when we stable them.

Yes I missed the outdoor school, electricity, somewhere dry to sit and have a brew, my friends to have a gossip with. But I'd rather give up things that make my life better than the other way round.

This winter I've found a livery yard that lets me turn out during the day - so it's a compromise of having to keep two of them in at night but having an outdoor school to use.

If you look for long enough and are prepared to give up things that make human life easier then you can usually find something.
 
My pony hates being stabled so lives out 24/7 so I could not keep him on a yard with restricted turn out.

I think most yards unless they do not have a school with a good surface could offer some sort of turnout even if it is just for an hour and rotated in the outdoor school or perhaps an afternoon or morning every other day.

If YO had less horses on the land then perhaps they could rotate the land and people would not end up in a situation where they had no turnout for months in the winter. However liveries would have to be prepared to pay more for this. Our YO does not take on more horses than she has land to offer all year turn out either 24/7 for ponies or in at night all year round for living in horses and ponies.

People without ideal turnout I would be looking at making sure the horse has plenty of attention coming out of their stables at least three times a day doing a variety of things - in hand grazing, walked in hand, free schooling, horse walker, ridden. When stabled ad lib hay and perhaps some horse toys to help keep them occupied.

I would also be concerned that when a horse has a sudden change of diet eg no grass for 6 months then getting turned out on grass that they might be at risk of colic so grazing in hand would be important.
 
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what if the land you have is yours and the choice to just switch yards insn't there?

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Then you should sell your land/home, or move your horse to a livery yard where it can be turned out. Apparently
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I'm sorry for being cynical tonight. Some people just dont seem to consider the fact that we dont all live in an ideal world....because in an ideal world, we'd all love to have perfect all day, all year turnout, floodlit schools, a short working day to allow us to spend more time with our horses...etc etc. But for so many of us, this just isnt the case. But surely, surely everyone just does the best for their horse that they can possibly do? And if those horses are happy and healthy and loved and cherished, surely the fact that they get less time in the field than some may consider favourable is not really that much of a problem?
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Judging by the views of some, there are clearly some very cruel people on this forum (myself included) due to the fact that we keep our horses worse than human prisoners are kept. I maintain that we all do our best; obviously for some our best is not enough
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i physically can't, it's clay, in a dip and is underwater for most of the winter or freezes. Just to be clear I have 14 acres and 7 horses so def not overgrazed.

2/3 of it had drainage laid below it with a septic tank to try and help, still a lake.

So whilst I know I am the lucky one sometimes the land determines the way you manage it.
 
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what if the land you have is yours and the choice to just switch yards insn't there?

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If the land was mine I'd turn out 24/7. People who have their own land are the lucky ones.

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Not necessarily - it depends on the land. Have you ever had a piece of sodden, clay based land which floods at the slightest hint of rain and is knee deep in solid clay for 8 months of the year? Unless you rest it during the winter, that kind of land will never ever recover enough to sustain your horses through the summer. It's all well and good saying you'd turn out 24/7, but from someone who has been there, done that and got the full mud-fever stained T shirt, I beg to differ. The years we had our own land were the years we had to keep our horses IN 24/7 in winter
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We know we don't live in an ideal world. Which is why I had to give up a lovely yard, with a floodlit indoor school, lots of lovely people but no turnout for a four acre field with nothing in it apart from the grass. It was far from ideal for me but much better for my horses.

I keep saying I have sympathy for those on yards with no turnout - I've been there myself for years. Plus I've never accused anyone of cruelty but you can tell yourself all you like that your horse doesn't care about not being turned out (I used to do exactly that) but the reality is that horses are healthier and happier when allowed 24/7 turnout or as near to that as we can get and their needs are compromised when that's taken away.
 
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Not necessarily - it depends on the land. Have you ever had a piece of sodden, clay based land which floods at the slightest hint of rain and is knee deep in solid clay for 8 months of the year? Unless you rest it during the winter, that kind of land will never ever recover enough to sustain your horses through the summer. It's all well and good saying you'd turn out 24/7, but from someone who has been there, done that and got the full mud-fever stained T shirt, I beg to differ. The years we had our own land were the years we had to keep our horses IN 24/7 in winter
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If I had my own land I'd create a hardstanding area to turnout on when it's very wet, plus a track system round the edge of the land for when it's a bit drier. I'm not bothered about having grass in the summer - I'd rather feed hay/haylage. None of it needs to cost very much and you can create a great environment for your horses even on a small acreage.
 
A four acre field with nothing else would be far from ideal for my horse! My point is that every horse's needs are different. Some horses actually do not like being out in the field all day - they may be a rarity, but my horse is living proof! She will happily go out, have a run around, have a roll, have two hours of eating grass...and then suddenly she decides she wants to come in, and proceeds to gallop around until someone goes to get her. She has never been any different - even when we actually did have the option of letting her stay out full time (and I've had her nine years, so I know her pretty well by now!
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Horses are happier and healthier when they are able to be turned out - there is no way I would deny that. But to say that ALL horses should be turned out 24/7, or as near to that as possible? Nope, I don't agree - not for every horse!
 
I have a sand arena for that reason. I'll post some pictures of the fields tomorrow so you can appreciate what i mean by lakes on it, it's not just boggy or slightly wet it is literally a lake. unless my horses liked swimming a track round the edge would be little use as they would end up huddled in the 20m of track or so that wasn't flooded. in summer when the lakes have dried up in there the horses will go back out.
 
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If I had my own land I'd create a hardstanding area to turnout on when it's very wet, plus a track system round the edge of the land for when it's a bit drier. I'm not bothered about having grass in the summer - I'd rather feed hay/haylage. None of it needs to cost very much and you can create a great environment for your horses even on a small acreage.

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It all sounds so perfect, but how many people can actually afford to do that? And also, you have to consider the fact that not all land can be managed in that way. Hard standing and tracks can still flood, if the lie of the land dictates! I'm thinking back to my old field...and nope, there is no way you could ever have developed it in the way you are describing. We wanted to put a school in at one point, but it would have been a physical impossibility to stop it being waterlogged, even with the best drainage system there was to offer (and we would have done it on a shoe string anyway, so there was no way we could afford anything fancy!). We were there for 12 years, and the only way we were ever able to ensure that a 'great environment' was maintained for our horses was by keeping them in for the majority of the winter. It is very short sighted to imply that EVERY type of land or field could be made 'perfect' - and I have a feeling that unless you have spent several years knee deep in clay, you may not really understand that!
 
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I have a sand arena for that reason. I'll post some pictures of the fields tomorrow so you can appreciate what i mean by lakes on it, it's not just boggy or slightly wet it is literally a lake. unless my horses liked swimming a track round the edge would be little use as they would end up huddled in the 20m of track or so that wasn't flooded. in summer when the lakes have dried up in there the horses will go back out.

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But surely if you're turning out into a sand arena then you're not restricting turnout
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which is what I thought we were talking about.
 
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It all sounds so perfect, but how many people can actually afford to do that? And also, you have to consider the fact that not all land can be managed in that way. Hard standing and tracks can still flood, if the lie of the land dictates! I'm thinking back to my old field...and nope, there is no way you could ever have developed it in the way you are describing. We wanted to put a school in at one point, but it would have been a physical impossibility to stop it being waterlogged, even with the best drainage system there was to offer (and we would have done it on a shoe string anyway, so there was no way we could afford anything fancy!). We were there for 12 years, and the only way we were ever able to ensure that a 'great environment' was maintained for our horses was by keeping them in for the majority of the winter. It is very short sighted to imply that EVERY type of land or field could be made 'perfect' - and I have a feeling that unless you have spent several years knee deep in clay, you may not really understand that!

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I live in Lancashire - the wettest county in the country and yes we have clay soil too. The field I had last winter got very wet, with it's own lake that the seagulls used to swim on. It did get very depressing for me, wading through the mud but the horses weren't bothered. Come May the grass had all grown back - no permanent damage done.

My ideal set up as described doesn't have to cost much at all - my friend has a four acre field on the side of a Welsh mountain which everyone told her could never be made suitable for keeping horses in. But by doing a lot of the work themselves and going straight to the quarries to get the stone, they kept costs right down and now have a fab place for their horses.
 
no very limited, I ride them all every day so I use the arena for schooling in for the morning and they rotate going out for an hourish each in the afternoon.
 
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