How long do I let this continue for?

Michen

Michen

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Bit of an update on the crippled TB. All was going well until he was trimmed and his toe was taken back- very lame horse. Difficult situation as original trimmer didn't touch the toe, it got very long, vet wasn't happy (he was in horpsital for a bone scan). Original trimmer couldn't come out so I got another to come and trim under supervision of my vet. Well sure enough he went lame, presumably because the back of the hoof just can't cope with it yet.

Anyway he got over that with some danilon and was fine, and at that point I decided that it's really now or never for him. He's been booted 24/7 for over 8 weeks now, and he's out 24/7 at the moment. I came up one day to find a boot had twisted, cut into his pastern and rubbed the skin raw. Decided then and there that enough was enough and took the boots off now we've had rain and the ground has softened up.

He was fine (bit pottery, but fine) for the last 3 days until this morning where he is now lame again. God knows why, he could have trodden on a stone or been messing around in the field. Perhaps a bruise or abscess coming through I don't know. The vets did walk him over stones much to my fury without boots on whilst he was there, and I do wonder if it was that which lamed him not the trim and perhaps the subsequent abscess if now coming into play. One fetlock is ever so slightly filled.

Gave him a danilon and left him to see how he is later today. Question is... do I persevere? Keep him on a danilon a day for a week or so and see how he is and hopefully his soles will toughen every day? Is it ethical to keep him on a bit of pain relief in the hope his feet will get stronger- even if he's pottery? I also have to remember his ulcers, whilst now clear, it can't be helpful for him to be on the danilon.

I'm seriously considering PTS if he doesn't start to improve. He can't live in boots forever and if I can't make the most of the ground being soft at the moment to get him out of them, how will I ever? Feels like a rather dark tunnel with no improvement on those feet....
 
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I am sorry, I haven't really followed your story so this may be a stupid and insensitive question (apologies if it is) but why can't he wear shoes? I was looking in to these for my mare before she died http://www.easycareinc.com/our_shoes/easyshoe.aspx maybe that would help him as it seems like a halfway house between a boot and a shoe?

Most of last year I struggled with my mare's feet, she had a lot of time off and there were some worrying times when I wondered if there would ever be an improvement, but there was in the end. I took her rear shoes off but could never bring myself to do the fronts, it really did benefit her, and she had good hoof supplements etc, she was actually looking really good this year. Her death wasn;t related to her feet at all but there were times last year I wondered if she'd ever walk out soundly again, but every case is different, you need to do what works for you and your horse
 
skint1 said:
I am sorry, I haven't really followed your story so this may be a stupid and insensitive question (apologies if it is) but why can't he wear shoes? I was looking in to these for my mare before she died http://www.easycareinc.com/our_shoes/easyshoe.aspx maybe that would help him as it seems like a halfway house between a boot and a shoe?

Most of last year I struggled with my mare's feet, she had a lot of time off and there were some worrying times when I wondered if there would ever be an improvement, but there was in the end. I took her rear shoes off but could never bring myself to do the fronts, it really did benefit her, and she had good hoof supplements etc, she was actually looking really good this year. Her death wasn;t related to her feet at all but there were times last year I wondered if she'd ever walk out soundly again, but every case is different, you need to do what works for you and your horse
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I've been looking into those too actually! I decided against them for now. He has severely collapsed heels and thin soles (ex racer) and was shod remedially but got even worse. Barefoot rehab is his last shot at life really.
 
anti-inflammatories are said to prevent the abscess coming out. Have you tried soaking/poulticing? vet could possibly locate abscess and drain.
on the longer term, have you thought about turning the horse away for a year? He seems to have a lots of problems and I think turning away can be very beneficial physically.
 
Palindrome said:
anti-inflammatories are said to prevent the abscess coming out. Have you tried soaking/poulticing? vet could possibly locate abscess and drain.
on the longer term, have you thought about turning the horse away for a year? He seems to have a lots of problems and I think turning away can be very beneficial physically.
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I don't know if it's an abscess though or he's just foot sore.. I'm just guessing really! He is turned away- but he can't really be properly turned away if he can't cope with his feet being bare.
 
the swelling would point more towards abscess, it is also the right time of year for abcesses (2 at my yard have had them the past week or so).

Personally, if he is weight bearing I would wait a few days with no danilon, try soaking with epsom salts if possible and if vet or a good farrier/trimmer (not someone too handy with their knife) is around have them look at him or call vet in a few days. If not weight bearing I would have vet straight out.
The few days should also give him time to recover from the trim if that's what caused the soreness.
 
Palindrome said:
the swelling would point more towards abscess, it is also the right time of year for abcesses (2 at my yard have had them the past week or so).

Personally, if he is weight bearing I would wait a few days with no danilon, try soaking with epsom salts if possible and if vet or a good farrier/trimmer (not someone too handy with their knife) is around have them look at him or call vet in a few days. If not weight bearing I would have vet straight out.
The few days should also give him time to recover from the trim if that's what caused the soreness.
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Oh he's weight baring and certainly not abscess lame (yet). He hasn't seen my vet for two weeks so to be fair, he's probably feeling he's due a visit (honestly.. he loves her). Sounds sensible. If it's not an abscess though- long term, in order to turn him away is it really ethical to let him be lame whilst his feet toughen up- when I know he's sound in boots? Urgh I don't know.
 
Palindrome said:
the swelling would point more towards abscess, it is also the right time of year for abcesses (2 at my yard have had them the past week or so).

Personally, if he is weight bearing I would wait a few days with no danilon, try soaking with epsom salts if possible and if vet or a good farrier/trimmer (not someone too handy with their knife) is around have them look at him or call vet in a few days. If not weight bearing I would have vet straight out.
The few days should also give him time to recover from the trim if that's what caused the soreness.
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Forgot to say, he had recovered from the trim. Then I took the boots off, then he was lame after 3 days without the boots. All a complicated time line of rubbish!
 
it's a judgement call re boots or no boots so only you can make it. This sounds very much like bruising/abscess so hopefully a one of.
 
I'd be turning him away for a while too. time and movement will toughen his feet up, standing in a box won't.
 
I would leave him in the field with the boots off personally. He might be sore for a while, but surely for the greater good it would be worth the discomfort short term.
 
I'm another to vote for leaving him be, telling him to man up and get on with it! If he is going to throw up an abcess you will know in a day or 2 at most. Make or break - at least you won't be spending money on him whilst he is turned away.
 
Oh yes, definitely think that turn out will help, we turned my mare away for about 6-8 weeks just for her back feet, back shoes came off in August, she was rideable by end September, galloping like a mad thing by November. However, there was a period of time she was on box rest because she was just so lame, she had some rotation of her right front pedal bone that was connected to the abscessing I guess. Rightly or wrongly she had remedial farriery, and it really did help her, but her back feet remained unshod. Initially i used some expensive supplements but in the end had her on a fairly simple hoof supplement (just a NAF Biotin Plus) and cornucrescine. She had Fast Fibre as well.

I lost her 2 weeks ago but the abscess hole was gradually growing down her foot (front right) and her feet were looking as good as they ever did in the time I was lucky enough to have her. I hope you find the answer for your boy, you've tried so hard with him.
 
It would not phase me if he where lame after a few days I would support with tapering pain relief and see how you go on .
I do not see this as an ethical problem J had pain relief when I first took him BF my vet fully supported and in fact suggested that we should do the early stage using Danilon.
I too would consider leaving the horse out all the time .
The trimming is difficult it can be very hard to find the right way through this but if he's turned out and doing no work on abrasive surfaces you will need to trim and I like to do this fortnightly so you are always just taking off a little .
Going in a sand school is a good way to wear raggy bits off the frogs and give them access to little abrasion if you have access to one .
Some trimmers are very conservative with their trimming but I feel if the horse is not working a fair bit you need to trim little and often when you dealing with horses with very poor foot balance .
 
Agree about the trimming, in fact I wouldn't be doing any trimming at all. Chances are just moving about in the field will keep them short because they are so soft anyway. Rasp off the edges yourself (I am talking mm here) to keep them tidy if need be. When he is up to it walking on tarmac to self trim will be better. The angle change on your other thread shows it's working so I would spend as little time (and money!) as possible worrying and keep on the same road.
 
I am with the let him man up band. if he needs a danilon then that would be fine but personally as long as he is only uncomfortable I would keep him off it and see what possibly literally comes out.
 
My retired one is lame at the minute. Bruising to front feet as he had been galloping round his field on the hard ground. It's first summer without front shoes. His feet were looking good but he has a large chunk out of a front now. He's on danilon until he recovers. I had the vet out just to make sure it was nothing more sinister and the farrier has tidied his fronts up a bit. I'm hoping his feet will toughen up. He has wood chips to stand on if he needs some relief!
 
I am considering the forage plus hoof one for mine. As I really don't want to have to shoe a horse that never leaves the field and will loose them messing about anyway!
 
Ok sooo my view just as an owner with a pain in the arse horse is that if the first trimmer was keeping him sound theirs would be the advice I'd be seeking as first port of call before making any big decisions on his future. They may well have had very good reasons for leaving his toe alone if the back of his foot is still weak (The ginger one took about 10 months to have toes of a normal length as we went with the path of minimal interference... he still has definite improvements to keep making to his feet)... Us still being in Spring (yes I know the weather makes it hard to believe) and move to 24/7 turnout may not have helped if he is sensitive and neither may the vets walking over a load of stones whilst he was with them. There is also the possibility of abscess so lots of things that COULD be causing him issues.

I don't know the fullness of your situation and what options you've got available to you so I'm prob not the best person to advise (yeah that would require me to know what I'm doing anyway!) but just to say that when he had his little regression upon return from Rockley (I didn't soak his hay for long enough, turned him out on rock hard ground (in a field that did have bits of grass on it, know for a fact he spent the night charging around and to top it off he was stealing unsoaked hay from another horse in the same paddock... take your pick really as to reasons) looking back he wasn't really confident on any of surfaces I had available (out driveway has little stones on it, the arenas all have surfaces that don't take much to get deep and uneven and the grass bits soon get rutted) but he wasn't uncomfortable enough that it was cruel to ask him to walk about inhand. Given the alternative was giving up on all the progress we'd made, having to sedate him to get shoes on (as he was getting dangerous), facing definite on-off lameness spells and watching his feet continue to deteriorate I chose to persevere. For a long time he acted like the world was ending if he trod on a stone and would limp for several strides (I had many, many texts to say he was lame then I'd turn up, pick his feet out and he's immediately be sound again!) and he's still not 100% on difficult surfaces (I suspect that if I can get a space on a yard with less toxic grass I could probably sort this) but he's now covering between 15 and 20 miles a week over all terrain (we just slow up on bad surfaces) and is back to popping small fences. So yeah if it is just bruising and you can get him through the worst of it he may surprise you with what he can do further down the line.
 
Our old boy typical TB, if he thought he had got a stone never mind an abscess would remember the pain, and be pottery even when with the vet hoof testing and he did showed know sign of pain. I would turn him out a gradually cut down the painkillers, to half dose twice a day, then perhaps half dose once a day until he has something better to think about and the hoof grows and the sole hardens
 
I know exactly how you feel! My TB mare had awful feet and was constantly lame in the paddock, with seemingly endless foot ascesses. I changed trimmer and voila, within weeks she was galloping around the paddock. The trimmer you use is essential and don't feel bad about changing if you aren't happy with the current one. And definitely turn him out without boots. Even if he seems worse initially, it will be much better for his hoof quality long term.

Good luck with him.
 
In terms of feeding for feet, two on our yard are on the new Top Spec anti-lam balancer. One is a very thin-soled thing that's always losing shoes and going lame, footsore etc and it's working fantastically. Better than formula 4 feet etc - owner has tried them all.
 
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