how long do you wait to ride after feeding?

Each racing yard is different. Even between both of our yards the feeding is different. Over at KD the horses get 2kg of haylage at 6.30am. First lot are on the walker at 7am to gallop at 7.30am. 2nd lot on about 7,45am to gallop 8.10-8.15am. After galloping they go back on the horse walker for 15-20mins to cool down before going back to their box for their hardfeed - 1scoop of race cubes and a double handful of Alfa A. Anything going out after 9am gets it's hard feed at 7.15am. These guys are then given another scoop of cubes at 12.30pm along with another 2kg of haylage. at 3.30pm they get another round of hard feed - horse dependent they get between 1/2 and 2 scoops of cubes plus a double handful of Alfa A. At 9pm they get another scoop of cubes and between 2-4kg of haylage - again horse dependent.

Head over to the other yard at Arlary and the horses get haylage at 6.30am. The majority are fed their scoop of hardfeed and Alfa A at 7.30am. The odd horse will go out being ridden at 7.30am but it is rare and if they do they will get their hard feed when they get back in at 9am. The majority of the horses at Arlary go out between 9.30am and 1pm. Everything gets fed cubes again at 1pm. Haylage at 1.30pm. Cubes and Alfa at 4pm and cubes and haylage at 9pm - quantity is again horse dependent.

All of the horses also all get a shovel (yes a large shovelful!) of carrots every day at 2pm - this makes sure they have eaten their lunch before filling themselves up on their 'treats'. We do try to turn as many horses out as possible but with over 100 horses and limited space and time not every horse gets out every day. The ones prone to ulcers we do try to get out every day, the others we endeaver to get out at least once or twice a week.

This is the routine 7 days a week - Sundays are different in that only the horses that are racing Mon-Wed get ridden out everything else goes on the horse walker for 1/2hour.

The yard along the road feed hard feed at 7am. Haylage at 8am. Ride out from 9am onwards and each horse gets another, smaller batch of hay when they return from work. They get hard feed again at 1pm, haylage and hard feed again at 5pm and Mon-Fri just hardfeed at 9pm. Sat & Sun they double feed them at 5pm with hardfeed.

With my own - they always have access for hay at the very least so I would ride on that but not hard feed for an hour or so.
 
Bonkers2 said:
Remember that most US horses are kept on the track where they run, so might never get turnout, and they often have fairly long careers.
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Here is a link to another study, this time in New Zealand, where they found similar levels of gastric ulceration, and interestingly found that turnout didn't seem to have a preventative effect:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17339911
 
TGM said:
Here is a link to another study, this time in New Zealand, where they found similar levels of gastric ulceration, and interestingly found that turnout didn't seem to have a preventative effect:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17339911
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Yes, but it is not likely these were random horses in training, more likely that the horse were suspected of having gastric ulcers, esp when the result are so impressive. It's not a fact that 83& of NZ racehorses have gastric ulcers, it is a fast that 83% of the horses tested had gastric ulcers.
 
Paper already posted above, study in NZ. Does not indicate horses were selected due to showing signs of EGUS. Concludes prevalence same as reported elsewhere.
 
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There is also a study from Hong Kong, based on post mortems of racehorses, showing similar prevalence. No scientific study will be able to prove conclusively that 90% of ALL racehorses have gastric ulcers because it would not be feasible to scope every single horse, but when a variety of studies are showing similar results, then it is wise to take note of the findings and not dismiss them out of hand!
 
Blurr said:
http://www.ker.com/library/equinereview/2009/ScienceUpdate/SU49.pdf

Review of a paper with randomly selected horses.
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That looks more like the thing, the longer the horses are in training the more likely to get gastric ulcers, that at least is logical.

The only bit I find puzzling is that part about horses in training and not in training being on the same or on different feed regimes, I don't think anyone feeds a horse out of training as hard as a horse in training and I don't see a reference to the paper that compared such horses, what I am saying is that there are quite a few assumptions being made here.

Standardbreds are used for harness racing in the US, and while I am not sure about their training methods, I suspect they are trained on track like the racehorses, so will be trained hard. I am making an assumption of course!

I see that the use of Omeprazole is likely to reduce the incidence of the condition, but I don't see any scientific evidence of that in this study. I suspect the makers of omeprazole funded the study, as it sounds like a proprietry medicament. One poster suggested feeding a fibre chaff before exercise to reduce splash, that may be more practical.

I don't have any doubt that there is a problem with gastric ulcers and that it almost certainly reduces the performance of the individual horses. It is important that trainers use methods which will increase the performance of the animals under their care. BUT trainers have to use training methods which will produce winning results, so there is always going to be a trade off between the "ideal life of a horse" [in many cases spending 24/7 running in a big field with his friends], and training racehorses.
 
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Which is why, as the majority of people on this thread have leisure horses who don't need to win races, they would be advised NOT to follow the practices of the racing industry in this aspect.
 
TGM said:
There is also a study from Hong Kong, based on post mortems of racehorses, showing similar prevalence. No scientific study will be able to prove conclusively that 90% of ALL racehorses have gastric ulcers because it would not be feasible to scope every single horse, but when a variety of studies are showing similar results, then it is wise to take note of the findings and not dismiss them out of hand!
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I am not dismissing them out of hand, as explained the horses which were scoped showing 90% were from a pre selected group, those which were suspected of gastric problems, ie showing symptoms.
 
TGM said:
Which is why, as the majority of people on this thread have leisure horses who don't need to win races, they would be advised NOT to follow the practices of the racing industry in this aspect.
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No one is suggesting they train their horse on racehorse cubes, racehorse haylage and so on, but people who event at the top level probably do feed hard and train hard, it is not possible to compete an unfit horse.

The UK racing industry employs about 86,000 people, directly or indirectly, so one can assume they all have some sort of interest in the racing industry. It is also a great source of income for HM government, which funds the NHS and all the rest of it.

The research which is done primarily for racehorses spins off in to the leisure horse community So it is not all bad news.

A generation of vets ago many horses were shot because of the lack of scientific knowledge. Both vets and many horse owners now know a lot more about the physiology and anatomy of the horse. A lot of things have improved.

A lot of leisure owners don't feed their horses ad lib or call the farrier when required, or have them wormed scientifically, or any other thing that some people consider good practice. In general I would rather send a horse of mine to the care of someone who had worked in racing than some YO who has no idea.

I have no desire to own a racehorse, never have, but I like my pony.
 
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Bonkers2 said:
The UK racing industry employs about 86,000 people, directly or indirectly, so one can assume they all have some sort of interest in the racing industry. It is also a great source of income for HM government, which funds he NHS and all the rest of it.
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I'm not sure quite what that has to do with this thread? I am not anti racing at all, indeed my husband has derived a significant portion from his income from the racing industry, and we have had shares in several racehorses over the years, and are good friends with several trainers. But that doesn't stop me from seeing that some aspects of racehorse management are not conducive to gastric health, and as such, not advisable to be copied by your average horse owner.
 
It is a hard one, as the rules we learned in Pony Club about not working on a full stomach, and I remember one report from a Novice Three Day Event that "there were too many full haynets around."

I think the Endurance horses led to a lot of re-thinking about feeding/watering/working. Considering that the endurance horses I know canter the whole time unless the going means they have to walk, so they are working really hard, although not flat out like a racehorse.

The accepted regime now seems to be that if you are feeding forage feeds it is quite OK to ride straight away/from the field. If the horse has had a feed of hard feed - oats, cubes, mix - then wait for at least an hour before exercise.
 
Depends on the type & volume of feed plus the work expected of the horse!

I ride mine happily directly after feed. But then she only gets a scoop of chaff.

I'd be happy to gallop a horse directly off a moderate level of fibre.

If feeding anything more than a token of straights/compound then I'd want 30 mins rest prior to gentle exercise or 60 mins for faster exercise
 
L&M said:
I don't - mine are either ridden from the field (so will have a bellyful of grass), or from the stable where they always have access to forage, and their hard feed is minimal anyhow.
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Same here - the only time I would wait would be if I'd put his evening feed in his box and someone else brought him in, in which case I still wouldn't worry too much as he only gets a handful of chop, half a scoop of balancer and some carrots and we always start work sessions gradually to warm up.
 
Havent read through all the replies but surely this is where common sense should kick in! If you're going for a leisurely hack then I see no reason at all why you would need to wait. If youre planning a hard schooling session or really fast work then I would think waiting half an hour or so would make sense. My own horse is on a fibre only diet so gets hay in the winter with a scoop of hifi if there is frost in the ground, nothing in summer other than grass. We mainly hack with the odd schooling session. I like to make sure he has something in his tummy before being ridden so he would have a hay net whilst being groomed and tacked up or whilst travelling during winter. We dont do any really fast work and he is so much nicer if hes not hungry!
 
Kezzabell2 said:
I've always waited at least an hour

But in conversation the other day, I asked for my horse to not be fed as he's was being ridden at 7am. some one said you should feed fibre before riding to reduce the chance of ulcers??

Am I just really old school?
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If its a large feed then I would wait 3/4 hr before hacking and an hour before schooling or fast work.
The amount I feed my horse (literally couple handfuls of chaff with some mix and supplements thrown in) then I would probably wait till the time it had taken him to eat his feed and tack up and then hack (walk only) but wouldn't ride.

But just a handful of chaff on its own without anything else would be ok to ride straight after and is beneficial for mopping any acid splashing around in the stomach.

I always let my horse eat ad lib hay before a xc round or jumping round at a show. I don't see it as a problem and never have.
 
Bonkers2 said:
No one is suggesting they train their horse on racehorse cubes, racehorse haylage and so on, but people who event at the top level probably do feed hard and train hard, it is not possible to compete an unfit horse.
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But this thread was not saying that horses should not be trained hard or fittened up for work, just that allowing them to work with a small amount of fibre in their stomach is thought to protect them against stomach ulcers. Our own horses hunt and event, and are very fit, but still are allowed some fibre before work.


A lot of leisure owners don't feed their horses ad lib or call the farrier when required, or have them wormed scientifically, or any other thing that some people consider good practice. In general I would rather send a horse of mine to the care of someone who had worked in racing than some YO who has no idea.
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You seem to be trying to turn this into a 'leisure owners versus racing yard thread' debate, rather than one about the protective effect of fibre against stomach ulcers! All I can say is I know some very knowledgeable non-racing people and some very knowledgeable racing people, and likewise some very confused and muddled people from both camps!
 
TGM said:
You seem to be trying to turn this into a 'leisure owners versus racing yard thread' debate, rather than one about the protective effect of fibre against stomach ulcers! All I can say is I know some very knowledgeable non-racing people and some very knowledgeable racing people, and likewise some very confused and muddled people from both camps!
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No am not trying to turn it in to anything, just responding to some of the ideas that are posted, its from these things that different ideas are bounced back and forward. The basic answer, is that it is OK to feed then go out for a leisurely hack, but if doing some hard work then they are best left for an hour after a substantial feed.
OP asked about a chaff, which really should not cause any problem if not fed dry, some people said it was a good idea to feed such a feed to stop acid splash, which led on to the gastric ulcer discussion.
Someone claimed that 90% of racehorses out of training have ulcers, and I asked where was their evidence.
I think I did agree that if a small feed of chaff was going to work then all yards should do it, perhaps it looked as though I was scoffing at the idea, but I am not.
 
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I tend to wait about an hour after hard feed (normally not a problem as 1st one on the block feeds so by time I'm up it's normally at least an hour since they were fed) although I do only feed speedibeet with linseed and mineral balancer so in theory it's mainly fibre anyway. I feed hay/haylage right up until when I put his bridle on to makes sure there's something in there for ulcer prevention. Years ago I was told you shouldn't feed ANYTHING for an hour before riding and should wait an hour after bringing in from field but I don't follow that now (although can see it being a good idea if horse is bloated form gorging on spring grass!)
 
I feed mine after work once Resp rate back to normal = issue solved! They have 24/7 hour access to forage and water and water breaks on long workouts :) Sometimes they also have a graze but we don't do anything much more than 20k routinely :)
 
Bonkers2 said:
Yes there is truth in this, but many leisure horses are left 8 hours with nothing at all, if they are browsing all day AND NIGHT, no problem, but if you have an empty stomach and feed 2kgs of hard feed you will probably upset the intestine.
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Who does that???? Blimmen 'eck I can't believe that is common practice anywhere, but if it is, no wonder ulcers are a problem.
 
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