How long to see progress

[littlen]

I know it’s how long is a piece of string but I was hoping to get an idea.

How long did it take your horses to really start to ‘get’ training. Was there a point that it started to click and if so when?

How much schooling does an average horse need per week to get to that standard that they can hold their own at a decent level?

Mine is sooo slow. 2 years later and we still don’t have established contact, outline, can’t maintain canter in the school and haven’t started any sort of higher work. She is a very backwards thinking and resistant mare and does not learn things easily and is always near the bottom of the line. She has had some bad handling in the past which has caused a lot of tension in her. I am thinking I need to up my game a little and train more but I’m not sure how much is too much.

She does okay at intro levels but tension gets her every time despite going out to a new place weekly and I don’t want to be stuck at intro forever. She can’t listen at all when she’s worried or excited. She tries but her head comes up and she’s so busy calling and looking about that judges hate her.

We have 2 different instructors and have lessons and clinics externally. She always tries in lessons but again we aren’t progressing as I struggle with her without an instructor present.

We currently do about 2 schooling sessions per week plus 2 hacks and maybe a day lunging. She is rising 7 and was backed late but surely after 2 years I should be getting somewhere? I don’t feel we are making any progress competititively.

I am half debating just hacking her but it’s such a shame as she is a beautiful mare who could be successful if she had a different attitude (and rider perhaps!)

 

[JFTDWS]

I'd certainly expect a horse to be able to perform a reasonable novice test within that sort of time frame - if there's nothing else going on. I'm torn between wondering if there is something deeper, since you say she is backwards and resistant and can't maintain canter in the arena. How is she hacking? Might she have something niggling, even a muscle myopathy?


The other thing which jumps out at me is that you say you struggle without an instructor present. After two years, I would expect you to have been left with homework enough to develop your independent schooling skills. I'd try out more trainers and actively ask for things to work on. Try filming lessons and schooling sessions to get an idea of what you need to adjust. How do you deal with her when she's distracted in the test? Does she do the same in lessons at new places, and what you your instructors tell you to do?

 

[littlen]

Thanks for your reply JF!

She has had everything checked but she has a very backwards personality in general. More of a make me do it type than want to do it in every aspect of her life. She is much more forward hacking but when forward becomes spooky and silly as opposed to nice forward.
She can canter for miles hacking but in the school really struggles with the short sides and throws a buck on transition. After she has cantered it then becomes a mission to canter constantly so any change of position from me means launch into canter. My instructor has said to walk her when she is doing this so she is calm but it means we don’t fit much canter into a session. Out hacking she is fine cantering but is strong and excitable.

I have spent the first year getting her to accept a rider. The second year has been an attempt to fine tune some of the work however it’s been met by panic and resistance almost all of the time which has meant going back ten steps to the point she was calm and starting again, I think this is what’s taken the time!

I have used 3 instructors, one tried to bully her. The second didnt understand her personality and the third is brilliant and knows when not to push her over the edge but because she’s not being pushed she’s getting nowhere!

So for example at a recent show she pulled in top for confo, lost it in the go round, head came up beyond point of control with tongue over bit (her go to evasion despite a prevention bit) with legs allover and dropped to last. This happens almost every time. I honestly don’t think it’s physical but more mental. When she’s nervous she is very head tossing and fidgets a lot.

To be honest I have no idea what to do with her when she does it other than try and settle her as no aids seem to work when her heads in the sky and she’s off with the fairies I think out of my depth is a fair assessment!

 

[be positive]

I'd certainly expect a horse to be able to perform a reasonable novice test within that sort of time frame - if there's nothing else going on. I'm torn between wondering if there is something deeper, since you say she is backwards and resistant and can't maintain canter in the arena. How is she hacking? Might she have something niggling, even a muscle myopathy?


The other thing which jumps out at me is that you say you struggle without an instructor present. After two years, I would expect you to have been left with homework enough to develop your independent schooling skills. I'd try out more trainers and actively ask for things to work on. Try filming lessons and schooling sessions to get an idea of what you need to adjust. How do you deal with her when she's distracted in the test? Does she do the same in lessons at new places, and what you your instructors tell you to do?

All the above plus a few other thoughts, do the 2 schooling sessions include the weekly lesson? many horses I have worked with over the years need more schooling until they are properly established in the basics, it can really help if you do 5 sessions a week but limit the time to just 15 mins or so which is usually enough to get them listening and going through the "homework" so you can then go out for a hack, or do it the other way round hack first to warm up then come back to a short schooling session, little and often can make a huge difference to their attitude and their ability to learn and progress.

I would also look at taking her out to new places with no pressure to compete, judges don't hate her but if she is not going correctly then she will be marked down, keep going out until she is totally relaxed but remember if she is not able to work well at home she will be worse out at shows and until the basics are really established she will not gain good results so it needs plenty of commitment from you if you are going to be successful, some horses are never going to really enjoy going out but most can be trained to perform at a reasonable level and be fairly consistent.

 

[JFTDWS]

Thanks for your reply JF!

She has had everything checked but she has a very backwards personality in general. More of a make me do it type than want to do it in every aspect of her life. She is much more forward hacking but when forward becomes spooky and silly as opposed to nice forward.
She can canter for miles hacking but in the school really struggles with the short sides and throws a buck on transition. After she has cantered it then becomes a mission to canter constantly so any change of position from me means launch into canter. My instructor has said to walk her when she is doing this so she is calm but it means we don’t fit much canter into a session. Out hacking she is fine cantering but is strong and excitable.

I have spent the first year getting her to accept a rider. The second year has been an attempt to fine tune some of the work however it’s been met by panic and resistance almost all of the time which has meant going back ten steps to the point she was calm and starting again, I think this is what’s taken the time!

I have used 3 instructors, one tried to bully her. The second didnt understand her personality and the third is brilliant and knows when not to push her over the edge but because she’s not being pushed she’s getting nowhere!

So for example at a recent show she pulled in top for confo, lost it in the go round, head came up beyond point of control with tongue over bit (her go to evasion despite a prevention bit) with legs allover and dropped to last. This happens almost every time. I honestly don’t think it’s physical but more mental. When she’s nervous she is very head tossing and fidgets a lot.

To be honest I have no idea what to do with her when she does it other than try and settle her as no aids seem to work when her heads in the sky and she’s off with the fairies I think out of my depth is a fair assessment!

Ah. I have to say, I'm not convinced I'd attempt to take a horse you can't canter sensibly at home into the show ring. It does sound like you need a fresh set of eyes - a trainer who can push her without blowing her mind - and probably a break from showing, while you sort out issues and take her out to lower pressure outings.

I wouldn't like to suggest what you should do when she sticks her head up without seeing her, but certainly it does sound like you need a trainer to give you some new tactics to deal with it.

 

[Orangehorse]

What breed/conformation? Some horses are not made to do some jobs. You can school when out on a hack. I agree with the fresh pair of eyes, as above.

 

[SEL]

Mine is 8, three years under saddle and struggles to hold canter - but she has a myopathy so learning is held back by her physical issues.

If there's definitely nothing wrong then could you try popping a pro up on her for a week or so and seeing whether they can help her education?

 

[neddy man]

Has your instructor rode her? How does she go for her /him? Maybe let your instructor ride at the next show to see if it's your anxiety that is causing the canter problems. And take a good video to observe afterward.

 

[scats]

If you don’t feel like you are getting anywhere and she definitely doesn’t have any physical issues, I would re-evaluate both your training and your trainer.

Be positive gives some excellent advice as always, I completely agree with changing your schedule slightly and perhaps increasing the number of sessions in the school but having them short and then finishing with a hack. Like some people, some horses need more consistent sessions. I have one who struggles to progress if she’s only in the school twice a week. She needs 3 or ideally 4 sessions, but they are short and interesting and we finish with a stroll around the Farm tracks. Some horses do also benefit from 2 days in the school on the run. I have another one who is always schooled on consecutive days as I find she progresses quicker this way, she is then hacked on the third day.
Your horses inability to maintain canter in the school, particularly the short side, but without such issues out hacking makes me think she is obviously very unbalanced, and an unabalanced horse will struggle with all aspects of its schooling... which may well be why you seem to have stalled in your progression.

Without seeing you both it’s very difficult to offer any more advice but I would be tempted to seek out some fresh eyes on the ground or perhaps see if there is a pro rider locally who would take her for a few weeks schooling. Sometimes when you hit a rut, you just need some help getting out of it, and then you are away and fine again.

 

[nikkimariet]

I'd certainly expect a horse to be able to perform a reasonable novice test within that sort of time frame - if there's nothing else going on. I'm torn between wondering if there is something deeper, since you say she is backwards and resistant and can't maintain canter in the arena. How is she hacking? Might she have something niggling, even a muscle myopathy?


The other thing which jumps out at me is that you say you struggle without an instructor present. After two years, I would expect you to have been left with homework enough to develop your independent schooling skills. I'd try out more trainers and actively ask for things to work on. Try filming lessons and schooling sessions to get an idea of what you need to adjust. How do you deal with her when she's distracted in the test? Does she do the same in lessons at new places, and what you your instructors tell you to do?

Agree with this.

You as a rider have to develop some consistency and determination to continue your lesson work away from the instructors eye, that's part of your job I'm afraid.

Equally... That's a very long time to not have the absolute basics installed?

 

[nikkimariet]

I'd certainly expect a horse to be able to perform a reasonable novice test within that sort of time frame - if there's nothing else going on. I'm torn between wondering if there is something deeper, since you say she is backwards and resistant and can't maintain canter in the arena. How is she hacking? Might she have something niggling, even a muscle myopathy?


The other thing which jumps out at me is that you say you struggle without an instructor present. After two years, I would expect you to have been left with homework enough to develop your independent schooling skills. I'd try out more trainers and actively ask for things to work on. Try filming lessons and schooling sessions to get an idea of what you need to adjust. How do you deal with her when she's distracted in the test? Does she do the same in lessons at new places, and what you your instructors tell you to do?

Agree with this.

You as a rider have to develop some consistency and determination to continue your lesson work away from the instructors eye, that's part of your job I'm afraid.

Equally... That's a very long time to not have the absolute basics installed?

 

[littlen]

Thank you all.

I do admit a lot of it is me that’s the issue. She can be very explosive and as a result I think I haven’t pushed either of us as much as we should have. In lessons we seem to progress more as I feel braver with my instructor there. She is a native pony.

Perhaps it would be beneficial to send her away but I’m worried once she comes back she will be the same. She is very much a one person horse and hates disruption to her routine, even simple things can panic her for days.
She has been tested for ulcers as well as hormonal imbalances/cysts etc but I found out she’s been like this since a youngster prior to me getting her.

In our schooling session I tend to do lots of relaxing work, circles and bending etc then progress to canter which excites her for another half an hour!

The showing classes I’ve entered tend to be very local walk/trot or perhaps a class with very few enteries just to get her out. She’s also done some intro dressage which she is better at as they don’t tend to focus on the outline as such.

As I said at home outline is a bit better, I would say maybe 20-30% of her Work is when she’s working well through the back but this takes a good half an hour to achieve as she’s so tense. This is where I struggle in classes as I can’t get her to settle enough to work well and so her marks are through the floor.
When she’s excited she tends to snatch, jog and throws her head up to my face level.

I will look into having another opinion on her from someone else.

I don’t want to go to Olympia just be able to enjoy her locally really!

 

[Leg_end]

Even taking things snails pace I’d expect an improvement within 6 months. If I was you then I think you might need a different set of eyes on you or more frequent checks. Your instructor should be giving you the tools to be able to continue outside of the lesson space and if they’re not then you need to ask or change.

If that doesn’t work then I think there must be something else going on and it would be worth further investigation.