How many of you have got away with stables without pp

[Patchworkpony]

So - I have put close board fencing near the road and all along nosy neighbours boundary (he's not happy) and it is now impossible to look in and see what we are doing. Next plan is to erect a couple of mobile stables and hay store. It's no good applying for planning permission because the peeping Tom next door would block it - he's spiteful as well as being a bit of a stalker. Short of something hovering in the sky I can't think of any way the local council are going to find out. This said I'm still a bit worried so I wondered if any of you guys have got away with erecting buildings without applying for pp?

 

[LeannePip]

if they are truly mobile and you do move them, you won't need planning permission for them - could this not be an option?

 

[rowan666]

I've known people get away with converting shipping containers and old railway carriges to get around planning permission and nobody ever questioned it because nobody would have ever guessed they were stables from the outside just looked like storage, but having said that they didn't have nosey neigbours. I think if your neighbours are that bad you may have a problem with them, I would put up CCTV and check they don't come snooping around when you aren't there first

 

[JillA]

Neighbour has the right to object, but only on genuine planning grounds (access, run-off, obstructing view etc) and the planners don't refuse just on the basis of objection - can't block it as such. If you conceal them you haven't fulfilled the criteria for getting them by default after 4 years (might be different for that type of application). Mobile you only need pp if you are in a conservation area, so long as they are truly mobile and you move them at the specified intervals. But is it really worth the risk? My LA planners told me they accept than animals need housing and that might very well over ride problem neighbour. Why don't you have an informal chat to the planners by phone or in person? They don't (usually) bite lol

 

[rachk89]

Well if you don't apply and he then complains which he will they will tell you to get rid of them and then that's a lot of money down the drain for you. So it's up to you if you don't mind wasting money get the stables without planning permission.

At least phone to ask if mobile stables need it first and if they do ask if there would be any reason that someone wouldmanage to block the plans.

 

[TGM]

Agree with JillA, an objection from only one neighbour won't necessarily block your application. We had one neighbour object to the planning application for our sandschool, but as the reason they gave wasn't on valid planning grounds we got permission anyway (and this was in an AONB).

 

[Patchworkpony]

Thanks everyone - I do know the risks. Absolutely no chance of neighbour now being able to sneak around without breaking in! No I can't move them. I just wanted to know if any one had just put up stables and got away with it. One of my lovely horsey neighbours did so for years until she moved. Sometimes I don't think the planners are interested unless someone complains.

 

[Theocat]

I'm not going to make myself popular here (forgive me, I'm the daughter of a town planner) but planning rules - annoying as they are - are there for a reason. The countryside would be pretty horrid if people could build whatever they like wherever they like.

I know it's a pain and planners aren't always fun to deal with, but it will be much easier just to go through the process - especially if you get caught. I can't imagine living with the worry of being found out would be much fun even if you don't.

As others said above, the neighbour can't block it unless there's a valid objection.

 

[Procrastination]

My advice would be to go through planning, especially as you have a difficult neighbour! Yes he may complain but he will do that if you try and put them up without planning. At the end of the day the planners can't decline an application just because of one objection, they will look at all aspects to make a decision. If you try and do it sneakily it is bound to get the planners backs up and they will be less likely to play ball.

You say the nosey neighbour isn't able to see what you're doing but surely if he really is that nosey the could just stand on a step ladder and look over your fence?!

 

[Adopter]

With the advent of drones able to take pictures of whole areas I do not think you can assume work will go unnoticed. Round here people have had to demolish structures that have not contormed to standards.

If you use a planning specialist it can make a real difference to the outcome, so really would recommend going the route of getting permission, it is best way to deal with your neighbour, going ahead without getting the right permissions puts your neighbour in a position of power and control and that is not what you want.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

If they are mobile and you can prove they are then you do not need planning permission.

 

[D66]

Drones and Google Earth will both give him and the planners a view of what you are doing. Don't risk it - go through the process and try to respond positively to the neighbours complaints. Ie if he says it's too close to his house, move it as far away as possible. If he then continues to object he'll look unreasonable.

 

[Honey08]

I'm not going to make myself popular here (forgive me, I'm the daughter of a town planner) but planning rules - annoying as they are - are there for a reason. The countryside would be pretty horrid if people could build whatever they like wherever they like.

I know it's a pain and planners aren't always fun to deal with, but it will be much easier just to go through the process - especially if you get caught. I can't imagine living with the worry of being found out would be much fun even if you don't.

As others said above, the neighbour can't block it unless there's a valid objection.

That's the theory, but certainly in this planning area, it doesn't work that way. I initially went down the regular planning route, but they were so awkward and stupid in their rules, with no intelligence in their arguements, so I have lost all faith. In our case, they said wooden stables would spoil the countryside. Yet they gave permission to neighbours on all sides of our small holding to have modern, obvious extensions with girders and glass (think grand designs) that you can practically see from the moon. Planning dept is a cash cow round here. If you have the money to keep applying you can get anything. When I first moved back to this area a lot of neighbours said to just put the stables up, don't get planning involved, but I insisted I wanted to do the right thing and go down the planned no route. I have hugely learned my lesson! However, with a neighbour that complains and causes issues you are guaranteed to get yourself in hot water with the planners, there's no way you will sneak any up without anyone noticing.

 

[ester]

Any possibility of doing it within curtilage? Friend put up 4 stables, tack room and a small hay store that way.

 

[Tyssandi]

I'm not going to make myself popular here (forgive me, I'm the daughter of a town planner) but planning rules - annoying as they are - are there for a reason. The countryside would be pretty horrid if people could build whatever they like wherever they like.

Ah but they do .......................The housing companies get away with pulling down 1 large house and large garden and putting 8 matchbox houses in it's place. The councils are selective if there is something in it for them they approve it.

Round here there has been a battle to stop a portable house being put in but eventually it got approved despite objections. One bungalow got approved to be converted into a house where another bungalow was not allowed.

I am from a senior planning family where lots of things go through after the building company offers to for example re do/repair a playground and they get a bit extras over and above the initial terms.

Half the modern day new houses are out of keeping with the surrounding houses or just plain ugly and stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[ester]

That's the theory, but certainly in this planning area, it doesn't work that way. I initially went down the regular planning route, but they were so awkward and stupid in their rules, with no intelligence in their arguements, so I have lost all faith. In our case, they said wooden stables would spoil the countryside. Yet they gave permission to neighbours on all sides of our small holding to have modern, obvious extensions with girders and glass (think grand designs) that you can practically see from the moon. Planning dept is a cash cow round here. If you have the money to keep applying you can get anything. When I first moved back to this area a lot of neighbours said to just put the stables up, don't get planning involved, but I insisted I wanted to do the right thing and go down the planned no route. I have hugely learned my lesson! However, with a neighbour that complains and causes issues you are guaranteed to get yourself in hot water with the planners, there's no way you will sneak any up without anyone noticing.

When my parents built their house the planners made the builders put up a test wall as they were worried that the combination of fake blue lias suggested would be too yellow... They clearly had paid no attention to the houses either side. One being fake, yellow standstone, the other being dark grey, we were trying to get it in the middle, but too yellow really shouldn't have been a possibility.
Second amusing anecdote was my friend's attempt to get planning on her yard for a dwelling, went up to higher echelons on appeal who came down and congratulated her on her screening while saying 'who the hell let them put that lot there!?' in response to the large caravan park just across the fields from her, complete with brick built amenities, in front of the council planning officer. She got her permission , it was just daft that she couldn't get planning for one static van yet they were allowed 100 odd on their farm for tourists on a single lane road.

 

[ester]

Ah but they do .......................The housing companies get away with pulling down 1 large house and large garden and putting 8 matchbox houses in it's place. The councils are selective if there is something in it for them they approve it.

Round here there has been a battle to stop a portable house being put in but eventually it got approved despite objections. One bungalow got approved to be converted into a house where another bungalow was not allowed.

I am from a senior planning family where lots of things go through after the building company offers to for example re do/repair a playground and they get a bit extras over and above the initial terms.

Half the modern day new houses are out of keeping with the surrounding houses or just plain ugly and stick out like a sore thumb.

There's a lot of new village halls round my parents

 

[Follysmum]

I would suggest get planning. We have just wasted money on surveys and searches on a house only to find out there was no planning for the whole yard, stables and part of the house extension. Total waste of time and money because house owner thought he was being clever and above the system.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Ive not got PP. My 3 block is on skids and at first we just put it up as it was. In theory it could have been moved but it would have been a nightmare as it's fairly wedged into place between a big farm shed and permanent fencing. We hve now also concreted right up to the front so its pretty impossible to move now!
We didnt anticipate any complaints though. I'd be very cautious if you know your lovely neighbour will have a whinge as he will probably enjoy it even more after the construction.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Keep it on skids and don't put down concrete. If there is no permanent floor then the object is movable thus getting around planning permission. Once the specified time is up for portable dwellings you can safely concrete/make properly permanent.

 

[Patchworkpony]

Lots of useful advice - thank you. I do keep sheep so if push comes to shove I shall say they are lambing sheds. Farmers round here seem to put up what they want and nobody says a word!

 

[Patchworkpony]

That's the theory, but certainly in this planning area, it doesn't work that way. I initially went down the regular planning route, but they were so awkward and stupid in their rules, with no intelligence in their arguements, so I have lost all faith. In our case, they said wooden stables would spoil the countryside. Yet they gave permission to neighbours on all sides of our small holding to have modern, obvious extensions with girders and glass (think grand designs) that you can practically see from the moon. Planning dept is a cash cow round here. If you have the money to keep applying you can get anything. When I first moved back to this area a lot of neighbours said to just put the stables up, don't get planning involved, but I insisted I wanted to do the right thing and go down the planned no route. I have hugely learned my lesson!

Exactly what I'm afraid of. No one really seems to know the rules round here.

 

[debsflo]

Sorry not read in full but i have 2 stables in the garden and was told i didnt need pp as within the curtilage of the garden.
I also have 2 on metal skids in the field and as they are classed as mobile dont need it either,have to say they feel v secure and stable and no different to my others so hopefully that would be ok for you

 

[PeterNatt]

Simplest and most long term solution is to appoint and instruct a local surveyor to apply on your behalf for planning permission for stables and equestrian use of the fields. That way everything is above board.
In any event you need planning permission for the field for change of use to equestrian use (if it did not come with it).

 

[ester]

Lots of useful advice - thank you. I do keep sheep so if push comes to shove I shall say they are lambing sheds. Farmers round here seem to put up what they want and nobody says a word!

neighbour did that with goat sheds

 

[RunToEarth]

Lots of useful advice - thank you. I do keep sheep so if push comes to shove I shall say they are lambing sheds. Farmers round here seem to put up what they want and nobody says a word!

To get agricultural PD rights you still need to apply and be on notice before you put anything up, and you need to demonstrate it is for agricultural purposes, on over 5ha.

Mobile stables don't need PP. If you are building something permanent you do need it, it's that simple. If your neighbour is nosey he will see the building materials come in and hear the building works going on. The most common way that developments without planning are picked up is due to bin men - not sure if you are domestic? When you come to sell, with a building without planning, due diligence will flag it up as an issue, you will struggle to sell without a CLUED on it.

Seriously just go through planning - your neighbour can't block it unless there are grounds for it, in which case fair enough.

 

[Dubsie]

Our pony stables have been up for years without PP. Found a photo of them in some junk left in the loft by previous owner, dated 1976! We need to rebuild them, and want them a bit bigger, so will be applying for Certificate of Lawfulness of Existing Use or Development prior to slapping in a planning application.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

IME planning officers get @ssy and can prove very difficult if they find that people have been doing stuff without the proper consents.

I'd be inclined to give your local Planning Office a ring and ask if they would send someone out to have a look and have an informal chat about what you can and cannot/should not do.

I've always found this the most helpful way forward: we did this when we had to do work on our Grade 2 listed annexe and found that we could actually do a lot more than we thought we could!! Which cost us a lot less in the long term!

So I'd ask them if they'd mind popping out to your place and have a look; have an informal chat, and take things from there. That way you'll have no anxieties about the problem neighbour coz Planning will already know what you're doing and you can tell neighbour to get stuffed without any fear of him running telling tales, a much safer position than doing something you possibly shouldn't do, and getting into mega deep trouble. Never worth it IMO.

 

[buddylove]

Check what you can put up within permitted development. I had a block of 3 (one used as a hay store) put up which was well within the permitted development regs.

 

[Honey08]

IME planning officers get @ssy and can prove very difficult if they find that people have been doing stuff without the proper consents.

I'd be inclined to give your local Planning Office a ring and ask if they would send someone out to have a look and have an informal chat about what you can and cannot/should not do.

I've always found this the most helpful way forward: we did this when we had to do work on our Grade 2 listed annexe and found that we could actually do a lot more than we thought we could!! Which cost us a lot less in the long term!

So I'd ask them if they'd mind popping out to your place and have a look; have an informal chat, and take things from there. That way you'll have no anxieties about the problem neighbour coz Planning will already know what you're doing and you can tell neighbour to get stuffed without any fear of him running telling tales, a much safer position than doing something you possibly shouldn't do, and getting into mega deep trouble. Never worth it IMO.

That's exactly what I did though, had a long consultation with the planning dept and they said everything should be fine. Paid the fee, put the plans in as theyd suggested, and it got rejected. I got permission for two stables (we had four horses and twenty acres), builder who owns 1/8 of an acre next to us got permission for six stables! The planners suggested I reapplied the following year for another two (at another fee) and the same the following year. It was onLy when I got really cross and told them that I'd either put a row of six ugly old lorries to keep my horses in or a row of stables in landscaped and nice tree planted area. I said I thought a nice block of stables would be less of an eyesore, but the lorries obviously wouldn't need planning, and that either way my horses were going in something for the winter... The planner compromised and upped her offer to four stables. We've also put two portables up that have been there for years now. Nobody has ever come to check or look at what we built. A lady up the road built an extra ten stables on her livery yard without permission. The council charges her business rates on them, but never noticed there was no permission, to her amusement.

I'd love to do things properly, I'm very much a "by the rules" type of person, but I think that our local council planners are rotten.