How many of you really want to go to the top?

I wasn't aware anyone was being made to feel stupid? All the replies seem perfectly sensible to me and they are all different of course because people want different things.
I admire ambition and drive :).

Please don't let my thread turn into a bitch fest. It wasn't intended to be that, I was only curious to see the profile of people who made up CR and I thought it would be interesting.
 
I would love to get to the top but in a 'national velvet' fashion, ie it was me and the horse together that did it.
Gosh I am getting so soppy, the older I get the more I appreciate the friendships I form with my horses (even the new foal who is having great fun running rings round me :D)
 
firewell said:
I wasn't aware anyone was being made to feel stupid? All the replies seem perfectly sensible to me and they are all different of course because people want different things.
I admire ambition and drive :).

Please don't let my thread turn into a bitch fest. It wasn't intended to be that, I was only curious to see the profile of people who made up CR and I thought it would be interesting.
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I didn't say it was from anyone on here!
Just in general - those who are ambitious tend to be told "don't be stupid" etc. which I don't agree with :)

Again, to be 100% clear - is nothing to do with any of the replies it is just a general thing!
 
I think i sit somewhere between the 2; I have to be realistic with how much time and money i have.

My ultimate aim is to get little mare to medium BD but the emphasis is that i want her to be working correctly. So, i wont be pushing her too soon, for my own competition goals, if that makes sense?

However at the moment we have only completed a W/T test....so that does seem like a long way off! I guess I am a 1 horse ambitious amateur!!
 
I've got this nagging wondering as to whether I could do 160km in a day. Sometimes I put it to bed for a while, but then it rears its head again. Who knows...maybe one day..... I'm very much a 'ride your own ride' kind of person, so not mega competitive in the great scheme of things (not that there's anything wrong with that - whatever floats your boat), so it's very much a personal wondering.

There is something very emotional and inspiring about the finish of a 160.
 
only_me said:
I don't get why those that are ambitious are made to feel silly/stupid for being so - being ambitious is nothing to be ashamed of, it is a great thing to be!!
:)
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agreed... as someone told me ages ago, "if you aim for the stars you might get to the moon!"
i think it is only those with totally unrealistic ambitions that are maybe made to feel a bit silly. aiming high is great BUT it has to have some kind of grounding in reality, some acknowledgement of graft, timescales etc - e.g. it's totally unrealistic to think that someone is going to give an unknown rider a perfect 4* horse that they can then sail to Badminton and beyond in a year or two!
 
Just to comment on only me's point, I don't think people look down on ambition at all, but I do think people who have been around awhile roll their eyes a bit when people make a big deal about their ' ambition' but don't seem interested in really examining what might be involved in reaching
 
those goals. It's not as easy as just wanting it!

And I think some people who are keen are quick to judge other people for not trying hard enough when what's really happened is just life.

Only me, you and lots of other people on this thread, are putting an immense amount of time, money and energy into pursuing your goals. You are also lucky enough to have that option but either way, that is to be commended. But you have only to look on here sometimes to see people who confuse ambition with delusion and somehow think wanting something means other people should do their utmost to make it so.
 
TarrSteps said:
Just to comment on only me's point, I don't think people look down on ambition at all, but I do think people who have been around awhile roll their eyes a bit when people make a big deal about their ' ambition' but don't seem interested in really examining what might be involved in reaching
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yes, exactly. i met someone years ago who was about to do her first Novice. she was in her late 20s, had a good job to pay for it all, so should have had a bit of nous, you'd think... she proceeded to tell me her 2-year plan for this horse (horse had never done any eventing before she bought it), it went - 4 Novices, then Intermediate, then 1*, then a few more Ints, then 2* at the end of that season. then the next season a couple of OIs, then Advanced, then 3*, then either another 3* or 4*, if 3* then go to Badminton the spring after. she talked about it the way i'd say "i'm going shopping and these are the shops i'm going to visit", as if it was that simple - you plan and then you do exactly as you've planned. hmmmmm. if only! all this overweening confidence was based on the fact that her horse was "a xc machine" with "phenomenal scope" etc - yes, well, i don't think anything that's only done PN has really proved itself yet...
i kept schtum. not my place to say anything apart from "gosh". her 'trainer' had never done more than Novice btw...
i'd love to know whether anyone inexperienced has ever done that kind of zooming up the levels so smoothly and easily...?!
fwiw, she got eliminated on her first Novice the next day, did a few PNs and then disappeared completely...
 
kerilli said:
yes, exactly. i met someone years ago who was about to do her first Novice. she was in her late 20s, had a good job to pay for it all, so should have had a bit of nous, you'd think... she proceeded to tell me her 2-year plan for this horse (horse had never done any eventing before she bought it), it went - 4 Novices, then Intermediate, then 1*, then a few more Ints, then 2* at the end of that season. then the next season a couple of OIs, then Advanced, then 3*, then either another 3* or 4*, if 3* then go to Badminton the spring after. she talked about it the way i'd say "i'm going shopping and these are the shops i'm going to visit", as if it was that simple - you plan and then you do exactly as you've planned. hmmmmm. if only! all this overweening confidence was based on the fact that her horse was "a xc machine" with "phenomenal scope" etc - yes, well, i don't think anything that's only done PN has really proved itself yet...
i kept schtum. not my place to say anything apart from "gosh". her 'trainer' had never done more than Novice btw...
i'd love to know whether anyone inexperienced has ever done that kind of zooming up the levels so smoothly and easily...?!
fwiw, she got eliminated on her first Novice the next day, did a few PNs and then disappeared completely...
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I think things like the X Factor are really encouraging this attitude. All it takes is a lucky break... But it doesn't. It takes years of hard work and tears and bad times and hard days to accompany the good bits to get people to give you that lucky break and for it to be sustainable, and even then it still is hard work.

I see young people (well, my age) having season goals and then going for them regardless. So if they want to do an Intermediate, they'll be doing one regardless because it's their goal when spending time at a slightly lower level getting decent results would probably be just as good... I think having ambition is good and important, but even more important is understanding how getting there is the bit that matters and counts because it lays the foundations for your next time and the next...
 
I do not think having ambition or goals is a bad thing as that is the thing that makes you get up in the day. But where they often fall apart is the lots of mini steps it takes to get to those goals.
The one thing I would love to see a study on is those who have success as juniors and young riders - what makes some continue and some give up?
 
'Young riders - what makes some continue and some give up'

I can't point to studies or anything like this, but I probably fall into this, albeit in Emdurance

I fell into doing endurance at the age of 11 due to competely losing my nerve jumping. At the age of 12 went from novice to advanced, cumiulating in completing 60 miles Golden Stirrup (unfortunately no longer exists). I was the youngest person ever to complete this and generated a lot of press interest, all on 13.1 pony

Due to particularly exceptional horse I continued to do well, became top young rider in the country and no. 5 overall at the age of 14.

Due to age restrictions I never made british team at 13 and by the time I was old enough I had outgrown the pony.

I did have a very good arab that I also brought up from novice and she was long listed for british team, could have been one of the top horses in the country but had legs of glass. I had to retire her.

Due to money and the fact that I had to make my own horses, I had bought a fab arab colt when I was 14. I banked on him being the right age for championships when I would be in my early 20s. I broke him and brought him on gradually. He had absolutely everything going for him, soundness etc. Was an absolute grade 1 machine on his way to advanced. And then just jacked it in. He would go 40 miles abd then no more. First time he did it he was 3 miles from home. Had blood tests etc, vet put it down to him hitting the wall so to speak.

Next time out he was sticky but finished.

I entered a 50 mile race ride on what was his absolute preferred going. He loved hot weather and the day was boiling, he jacked it in 10 miles from home. He could have walked the finished and still have won by miles. No one could understand it.

The amount of work that had got to this point and then the horse just saying no was devastating. I had spent over 10 years, sacrificed so much personally (I did manage to do a law degree but choice of uni was made to enable me to keep horses and compete).

I just didn't have anything else to give. I really wanted to ride World Championships and abroad, not just complete but actually win events. At the time not unreasonable but the luck just wasn't there.

I decided to have a break, go eventing and had a horse on loan. I progressed quicker than horse so he went back and I acquired the most wonderful ex racer. She had the ability to go intermediate but was never sound.

She has typical TB feet and after 2 years of battling the inevitable, she is being put down in 2 days.

I have hardly ridden in 2 years. 6 months ago I would have said I might never ride again. I've started to miss it and will be riding a bit over winter to see if I can re-kindle my love for it.

I think what I'm trying to say is, riding is luck as much as anything. It is also time, and particularly growing up you eventually realise what you've missed out on. Sometimes I think I wasted so much time chasing my ambition that I missed out on oppotunities that I just didn't see. I don't think I regret it, it could all have been so different and I have learnt so much from it.
 
Foxglove said:
I think what I'm trying to say is, riding is luck as much as anything. It is also time, and particularly growing up you eventually realise what you've missed out on. Sometimes I think I wasted so much time chasing my ambition that I missed out on oppotunities that I just didn't see. I don't think I regret it, it could all have been so different and I have learnt so much from it.
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I think you have hit it in one, having one horse as opposed to a string can really impact on your goals...something i can sympathise with (although have to say i am nowhere near your level).
 
Luck has so much to do with it. Which isn't to say people shouldn't be ambitious, just that most of the time when dedicated people don't reach the top, it's not that they didn't try hard enough, it's just that the cards didn't go their way.

Re the JR/YR thing . . . I think there are lots of reasons promising people don't go on. One is money. I know lots of parents who were very indulgent right up to University age but pulled the plug (sometimes because they had actually got in financial trouble financing the riding) and that was that.

Another is getting hurt. We all know you get more breakable as you get older and often when kids reach the age of majority, people are less precious about the sort of horses they put them on. (I know lots of kids ride "bad" horses but I think often they're not quite as bad as we remember!) Add that to the greater demands/risks and the chances of getting - and staying - hurt go way up. I remember Mark Todd saying he felt one of the major factors in his success was he's never had a really serious injury so didn't miss time and doesn't ride in pain. (This was about 10 years ago so he might be having a different experience now!) And aside from the time off, the loss of income and the pain, if you get a rep for being too breakable owners, even unconsciously, can get leery of putting you up.

Another is management. JRs and YRs are always carefully managed, often by a team of people. Then when they "grow up" suddenly they're on their own - talking to clients, worrying about money, scheduling, staff issues, lorry plating, rent/mortgages . . . all of a sudden they have to worry about all sorts of things someone else has looked after. Plus they have to keep riding! I don't think it's a surprise that most kids who stay with it continue to get a fair chunk of support.

The other thing, as a depressed ex-prodigy violin star once told me, is the sheer pool you're swimming in. Kids only have to be better than other kids, all of whom have similar levels of experience and support, at least at the top level. The when you're out of that, you're suddenly chucked in with people who have decades more experience (including in all those non-riding things). Everyone needs a selling point and if yours is being younger than your peers, well, that's going to go away and you better have something else (preferably winning) to sell. So lots of people last a few years into senior competition but can't sustain it long term.

Also, I think many kids get burned out. It can be a lot of pressure and, as t_e said, there can be a real "Is that's all there is?" feeling. Quite often kids who do well have advantages in other areas, too, so they look for new challenges.
 
really good point tarrsteps.... i think (certainly re how i feel with my ambition) that when i was younger I didn't have the confidence in myself to 'think' i could do it....

chatting to a friend earlier with a mega keen teenage daughter we were talking about this very thing.... she summed some of it really well by saying that as we get older, if we still have this ambition... & it still grows, perhaps it's because we have so much else to fall back on,

I've a great husband, 2 fab children & run a nice successful business.... i've already (metaphorically) ticked boxes some people at my age haven't... perhaps that's why at least for me it's easier to say I want to get to 4*.... i've gone past being bothered about what people think, & i know if i don't get to 4* (or 1* :) ) & if i make a total balls up of attempting to get there, the people i trust will say the right thing, & those that don't, don't matter!
 
This time last year I'd have been in the 'no' camp - I left my competing aspirations behind after show jumping as a teenager.

Since then, I've discovered 'proper' dressage training and, although we're not competing, and I'm not sure I'm tempted, I would like to be able to ride the GP movements. Trainer has me thinking it's not necessarily impossible, even on my middle aged Irish bog trotter who has started offering bits of piaffe and passage (although we're still far from the stage of asking for them). So now I'm a 'kind of' - I want to be able to ride at a good level, although not necessarily to compete there. Is that mad?
 
To Quote LEC

I am somewhere in the middle - I have never truly dedicated myself to horses as I would certainly not be in the position I am in now with having a house etc but if the cards all aligned themselves perfectly or I had an outstanding horse I would probably take a career break or maybe go part time. I do it all for fun but as my OH would say I am completely obsessed.

this kind of sums me up too.
 
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I would love too get to the top!

I was never one of these girls are school who dreamed of being famous and in the lime light I still have my ambition to ride Burghly!

Yes this is completly out of reach but its a dream and there is no harm is having one. At the moment though my goal is to ride Badminton Grassroots.

I have no transport so renting is expensive but get out when i can but maybe Ill see how much I can streach the pennies next year. I was never one with parents who showed interest or invested in my competing so a little bit of a struggle but hey ill get there.

All the way as far as we can go!!!
 
I am very likely to be considered certifiable. However after jumping for fun as a teenager and having 20 years off and then realising that I was never 'taught' to ride. I have done, level 2, National diploma and now completing level 3 with a coaching element. I groom for two eventers - one does 3*. I loan a riding school pony with issues, but that is teaching me so much so fast that it has to be better than an easier horse for now. My instructor is pretty amazing, but never ever gives me an easy time and spends a lot of time shouting, screaming and occasionally throwing things at me. I also have the odd lesson with a friend that spins round Fox-Pitts ponies.

In 2012 I will do my 1st ODE in feb. I will also do workers at the suffolk show as well as lots of smaller stuff inbetween. It should also be time to shop for a horse to produce for higher levels.

So at 38 I believe that I have the solid grounding to build on and a small network of top quality aquantances that already have the T-shirt to guide me.

So it's a yes. I am going to the top. And being a good 10 years younger than Mary King and Mark Todd there's still time.

Just some luck and a horse with a bit of extra sparkle required.

But aspirations aside. I have never had so much fun in my life. I am having a ball :D
 
In all honesty, i would love to go to the top, it is the one dream that is always in the back of my mind but i know in all reality i could never reach it, it's also the one dream that i never voice.
Realistically though i would love to continue to enjoy horses, to compete and to improve. I want to make my mum proud in her memory, and to ride for myself and her. Horses are the one thing i can rely on, and they are an ingrained part of my life, i fear that if horses ever turned into a job i would lose the one thing that has always made me happy and kept me positive no matter what else life throws my way.
 
kerilli said:
agreed... as someone told me ages ago, "if you aim for the stars you might get to the moon!"
!
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'Shoot for the Moon; even if you miss, you'll land among the stars'

It's my new favourite quote :D

I want to get to the top of what is achievable for me, what 'my' top might be I have no idea, but I want to find out.
I'm not unrealistic, I realise I am limited by time, money and my distinct lack of confidence, but if it's ever going to happen, it'll be with Mal, So I may as well give it a shot :D
I have no set plan or goal, I just intend to keep working everyday on being better, have a bit of fun and see what happens.
 
vam said:
Im a realistic ambitious amature...I want to be the best I can be, i want to move forward all the time and im always working to move on and up....
My problem is im not sure what i will run out of first, money or talent :o im thinking talent closely followed by money trying to improve said talent :rolleyes: :D
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Exactly this! I am ambitious but realistic about where I am in life and just how much I can (or can't) give up for my sport - I always set myself short and medium term goals and by and large I get there. I'm not a fan of entering competitions to be someone else's cannon fodder; unless there is something specific I want to work on or through, I'm usually chasing either a single or multiple improved manoeuvre score, or an improved overall score. But I will only ever be an amateur, and my focus now I have two really good horses is to do the horses justice and ride and show them fairly and well. For me, riding is all about improving me as a rider, always has been, I've never had aspirations or the talent to attempt to train, I'll leave that very happily to the pros. But I do get a real thrill from working full time, training as much as I can and competing well against really dedicated and talented amateur riders of all ages, and I'm not averse to running in Open classes - placing higher than a few pros may not be something I can achieve day in, day out, but when it happens, it's a really good feeling.
 
Like many other posters, I have a need to be as good as I can be at everything I do.

Strangely, I am NOT competitive, in so far as, if I have done as well as I can, and made no (or few) mistakes and maybe bettered my personal best previous score, but I am beaten by someone better, then I am happy regardless of the fact I have not won.

This drive I have is the reason I retired from the Martial Arts, as although I never competed, I realised I had reached a level where it was going to be extremely hard for me to make very much progress, no matter how long I trained, so instead of doing that, I chose to learn to ride.

I do not compete on horseback, as even if I had the right horse, I do not have the time, facilities or money needed to reach the level I would wish to.

Now, if I won the lottery, that would be a VERY different matter :D
 
Many years ago i would have said i wanted to get to the very top. It was always my ambition to become a professional SJ'er....but that was when i was a teenager with very little real understanding of how the worl worked, and indeed how much money it would cost.

Twenty years later when i got back into it and was paying my own way i still had very great ambitions. I knew i was never going to make a living out of SJ'ing but i believed i could be a top amateur and compete at a decent level with the horse i had. It took another 5 years of knocks and a large dose of reality to realise even that was a tough call....times had moved on and even the top amateurs were riding full time and had huge financial backing.

Now, in my mid forties i am just happy to have a nice new horse that i can bring on through the grades as far as we are both able as a partnership. I think Newcomers is achievable given the amount of time i actually get in the saddle (max 3 days a week over winter) and maybe, just maybe, if we have enough time together and hit a good streak, we might get to Foxhunter level....but that is now the dream rather than the expectation. Most important of all is to enjoy ourselves though.
 
What a fab thread!. There are some brilliant replys on here and I'm loving kirstyhens quote! .

I suppose I am with the majority, I dream as big as I dare and I think this keeps me going. I know that I will never be at the top I don't have the talent, money or the support network around me. I am having to work it all out as I go along :) but I just love it showjumping is my passion and it makes me happy. So I will continue to try my very best to be as good as I can be.

I saved up to buy my 1st horse at 18 and have bought and sold a few along the way to build myself up to having a couple of nice young horses. I would love to jump a 1 30 and you never know I might get there, but for now I am very happy producing my own horses to my best ability.

Dream chasing is what keeps us all going and without even reaching ur big goal what you achieve along the way can be pretty impressive.

I just want to look back in say 30yrs time and be proud :)
 
I would love to be successfully competing PSG dressage in the near future but know that it will be a massive challenge to get there.
I've never had the support from my patents (both financial and practical) with my riding and from the age of 14 have found ways to fund my training and competitions so never got above a local/unaffiliated level with my own horses. After a while I started to ride and compete friends horses, then clients horses although always found that I put in all the work, got them to a level where it looked as though we were finally going to break through and then the ride was given to someone else. It was all very fustrating!
I have now got my hands on a very exiting new horse owned by my aunt who I hope I can finally achieve my goals with :)
Although I loathed my parents at the time for not giving me the same funding and resorces as my friends were getting , looking back it was the making of me.
I know whatever I achieve is due to my determination and perseverance which makes each achievement so satisfying :D
 
Would have loved to a few years back but realised I didnt have the money!!
I think if I had access to decent facilities, my own transport & a decent trainer I could probably take my little man quite far but I cant afford those luxuries & as such we dont really do anything anymore :(
 
I've never wanted anything more than to get as far as I possibly can! Whether I get to where I want to in the end I don't know, but if I don't try, I'll never know! I'm studying for A-levels as a back up plan, but as of june 2012, I will be having my rn as a professional showjumper/producer... hopefully we get a little bit of luck on our side and all the hard work we've put in for so many years will pay off!!
Still love the little hobby side of it of having fun.... I'm just a competitive person and LOVE the rewarding side of Producing/competing....
We will ahve to wait and see where I get to!
 
This thread asked the question "do you want to go to the top?" - that is not really the same thing as "do you want to do as well as you can with your horse" - I'm sure most of us would like that.

I've never wanted to get to the top and I know that it could never happen. I show jump – you simply will not get anywhere NEAR the top unless you have heaps of money (or someone willing to spend heaps on money on you). You need a constant string of very very expensive horses, and you need to focus your entire life on show jumping. There are simply no amateurs at top level, its a full time job that requires graft, time, dedication, talent, money... You are just not going to find a top level show jumping horse in the field next door for £500 that you could take to the top with sheer talent – and even if you did, you'd need 6 more of them! And a great trainer, facilities, time, money to go to shows, a lorry to stay in etc. There are so many factors that come into play.

Lets face it - most pro's don't even get to the top. I know countless people who are very talented professional riders and live to show jump, have a string of good horses and go to shows every week of the year, and most of them don't get beyond 1.40m level because of financial constraints. There are a lot of horses and riders that are good enough to get to say area trial level - but the 1.60m, Grand Prix level is just a different ballgame.

So on that basis - like Duncan Bannatyne, I'm out!
 
Saying that though - eventing is perhaps an "easier" sport than show jumping and dressage for getting very far - or at least it has the odd semi-amateur at the top. Not really sure why this is, and perhaps I'm completely wrong. Perhaps the horses aren't quite as ludicrously expensive as pure jumping horses?
 
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