How many of you ....

Izt: I only say this as I haven't had him long enough to expect him to trust me in this way, he is very young, and I do hope we will get to this stage with time and patience. Would hate it if he could never trust me.
 
I was joking about my stupid horse!!
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i have a v silly horse who is constantly getting herself in scrapes i have no intention of trying join up with her anyway but she is like a dog when you turn her loose and follows me around even when im trying to muck her out if i tried to chase her away she would probably find it confusing especially because for the past four years ive actively encouraged her to follow me!! like i said i tried it years ago on my older horse after going to see monty roberts at work and buying his book, vid,etc dont think it made the least bit of difference in my personal opinion the day to day handling of my mare and the fact that she relied on me to do everything for her built a much stronger bond between us than join up ever did.
 
Although my boy did b***** off over the fence when I sent him away, he will follow me everywhere, and I have a real bond with him, so dont see the need!!
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QR

I find it interesting that so many people quote 'my horse follows me round' as a measure of how much the horse trusts them? I had a horse who would follow me round anywhere but would didn't trust me enough not to flip out totally if I asked him to walk past a plastic bag in a hedge.

Why is a horse following you round a benefit? Surely it is only a benefit if the 'trust' extends to other more important circumstances- e.g. the plastic bag, an unfamiliar jump, new places, having to stick a thermometer in the bum type thing etc etc?

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I think it does visually illustrate that the horse does look at you as the leader of their life.

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Hmmm I'm not convinced this is ALWAYS the case- my friends horse will follow me about wherever I go, I'm not his leader. Anyway, the point I was making is that there are more important measures IMO. A horse following you about means nothing if he doesn't listen to you in any other situation.
 
I spend time installing manners and I think this is far more useful than join up. All our horses understand their place in the pecking order and I think I have an excellent relationship with all of them because of this.
 
Well,, Corroy wouldn't follow me I am afraid, she's far too opinionated for that, just not in her nature.
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She will wait outside her stable with her tack on and not walk off until she comes with me. However, I would say that she does look at me as the leader, she will go past things if I say it's OK and looks to me of reassurance.
 
I will do some leading work, to get them focused on me if they're having a snorty day
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or if it were a new horse I was about to ride (and the owners didn't mind!
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I've never done join up in the true sense though. I'd like to have a go in a round pen though
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I am with you ColleenISHMissy. I have seen join up in action a few times from watching Monty Roberts Demo and it is amazing, it is a way of speaking the horses language.

If you think it is cruel you must surely then think all forms of riding are cruel??
 
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I am with you ColleenISHMissy. I have seen join up in action a few times from watching Monty Roberts Demo and it is amazing, it is a way of speaking the horses language.

If you think it is cruel you must surely then think all forms of riding are cruel??

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I wonder if you are missing the point of what a lot of posters have said? I think few people would try and deny that people like Monty Roberts perhaps are very good at what they do. But really isn't it about instinct and the ability to handle an animal and read signals. No one is poo poing that - just the term 'Join Up' as it is so commonly and misguidedly banded around.
 
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JACQSZOO "Disagree completely. But then I find Mark Rashid theories more plausible than those of MR. "

What disagree that there is more then one way to do something? Disagree that what suits one person does not suit another? or with "We are meant to be the herd leader"? Because we are meant to be the herd leader, that is our role. The same thing when you own a dog, you are the pack leader. They follow you not the other way round.

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You cannot compare a pack of dogs to a herd of horses.
 
Because I do a bit of T-Touch ground excerises & my horses are taught manners, does not mean I trust NH. I have already mentioned in other posts that I went to a MR demo. What put me off him, was the price of his dually HC, & the prices they charge to help people. It left me thinking that all this was a money making get rich scheme. I do not know how they justify their prices, any of them, not just MR. I thought they loved horses & wanted to help them? I dont expect them to do it for free, but neither do I expect them to charge almost double the going rate. On the other hand, I do not dismiss other ways of thinking. I will take out of it what suits me & mine.
 
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I will do some leading work, to get them focused on me if they're having a snorty day
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or if it were a new horse I was about to ride (and the owners didn't mind!
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I've never done join up in the true sense though. I'd like to have a go in a round pen though
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Would love a round pen :P :P
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I would agree with that.

This is part of what the OP asked.. how many of you "Do bonding work with your horse as in join up ?" And many people have answered that they don't need to because their horse is already bonded, and to send them away as in 'join up' is unnecessary and confusing for the horse.
 
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Because I do a bit of T-Touch ground excerises & my horses are taught manners, does not mean I trust NH. I have already mentioned in other posts that I went to a MR demo. What put me off him, was the price of his dually HC, & the prices they charge to help people. It left me thinking that all this was a money making get rich scheme. I do not know how they justify their prices, any of them, not just MR. I thought they loved horses & wanted to help them? I dont expect them to do it for free, but neither do I expect them to charge almost double the going rate. On the other hand, I do not dismiss other ways of thinking. I will take out of it what suits me & mine.

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im with you there ...


Dont get me wrong , Im not into the whole NH ...... I just think doing the whole sending your horse away ( minus the exhaustion ) is helping the trusting and knowing who is boss issues esp with problem horses .
 
JACQSZOO You can compare a pack of dogs to a herd of horses because they both have a leader they follow. A dog needs to have you as his pack leader otherwise they will try to dominate & will be confused as to where they fit in. A horse needs to know that he/she takes his lead from you. That is why some horses will go past scary objects because they have learnt to trust the rider/handler. The police horse has to trust his rider, he will have learnt that when he is asked to jump through fire, his rider is not asking him to do anything that would bring him harm. How many horses have gone backwards because they put their trust in the rider, (ie going through water only to start sinking), & been let down? It is a horses nature to run from danger not stand up to it, therefore coming across a bogey man means run, yet we will ask him/her to stand their ground & go past. To do this the horse has to accept you as the leader, because the leader would not put him/her in danger.
 
QR - very interesting to see others opinions. I think that out of all the arguments for or against lzt makes the most sense! I agree wholeheartedly, just because a horse will follow you around does not mean it trusts you and I agree with Weezy that I'd rather my horse trust me enough to walk past a scary monster whilst out hacking than follow me round like a big dog.
It's common sense and unfortunately I think Monty Roberts and the like are just cashing in on it.
I don't believe thre are any quick fixes with horses so how can they say they've rehabilitated/cured/whatever you want to call it in half an hour?! That may be very sceptical but it's my opinion!
As another poster said good horsemen have been gettting the same results from horses for years by using common sense, they didn't need 'join up'!
 
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I do not know how they justify their prices, any of them, not just MR. I thought they loved horses & wanted to help them? I dont expect them to do it for free, but neither do I expect them to charge almost double the going rate.

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Because its a business, theres no room for sentiment in business. Livery yard owners love horses but it doesn't affect their prices!!
 
I've never done join up, never really seen the need - our bond has just grown over the years. I wouldn't want a horse that constantly neighs to me and is really clingly, prefer him to be a horsey horse, rather than a people horse. Trust has built up with general handling, I trust him and he trusts me.
 
Not always the case. My horse wasn't especially trusting when I bought him, he was 4yo and had had at least 5 homes that I knew of. I don't think he'd been abused but he was definately nervous of new people and sudden movement etc. He'd never had his own human and any 1-2-1 contact on a regular basis.
Now, a year later, he's the most trusting, nice natured, level headed horse I know and he's still only 5yo! He'll go anywhere I ask with minimum fuss and trusts me more than he's ever trusted a human being. I've NEVER sent him away from me.
I've only spent time with him, lunging and long reining when he's been out of work and unable to be ridden, I've spent hours grooming him and just being in his company. There was no quick fix with Bailey and I'm glad I didn't go down that route.
He has impecable manners and is a genuinely nice person.
 
My horse doesnt neigh at me at all, nor is she clingy. I'd be worried if she was. Horses are not generally vocal creatures and I'd be concerned if she felt she had to neigh to me all the time just because I practice NH!!
 
No never.
Bonding/join up to me is spending quality time with my horse, grooming, riding and feeding.
Talking to them (okay so ppl think im nuts) attend to their every need. However, I take NO crap, they know if theyve over steped the mark.
I have comments from ppl how easy my horses are to handle and do, whether they are 4 or 26 years old makes no difference.
I would put it down to common sense. I dont have time to send my horse away and wait for it to come back to me (its not a boomerang. I need to get on and ride or lunge it.
 
claire1976, " Because its a business, theres no room for sentiment in business. Livery yard owners love horses but it doesn't affect their prices!! "
oh right, so that is why they can charge double, right, stupid me. As for livery prices they are set by the local area & what people are willing to pay. We have a yard that has full facilities, & charges £40+ pw, but the going rate is £17-25pw. It does not explaine why their overheads are anymore expensive then any other trainer. This is the difference between me & them, I love horses enough that if I had "their talent" I would want to help as many horses as possible. To do this I would be aware that the vast majority are hard working owners with little spare cash, so I would charge accordingly. Same as some physics, they have this "gift" but boy do they charge for it, how many people earn £20ph from their kitchen tables! But then again if people are willing to pay it...
 
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I've just never felt the need. And quite frankly is there the time??? I think that if you are someone who is confident around horses then that sends a very definate signal to them. As can a confident manner in riding.

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I used it for exactly that reason! I lost all confidence in us as a partnership so did join up but on the lunge (our arena is too big) and it's really put thigns back on track...
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I have a very close bond (imo!) with my boy. He's a smart horse to begin with which i think helps and we've built up a mutual respect for each other over the past 18 months.

I handle him quietly and respect the fact that he has moods just in the same way i do. He'll happily follow me around but I dont particularly see this as any great achievement.

Ive sat in the stable with him when he's been ill, ive stayed in the field with him when he's been recovering.... For me, its horsemanship and nothing more.

You're original post refers to riding strange horses and in this case, i (hope) to instill confidence in them through good handling on board, not by playing games with them before hand. They get the same handling that my horse gets whilst always remembering that you're dealing with a flight animal who's insticts for survival will always prevail.

For me, the "fad" that has become NH is what most good horse people have been doing for years. And yes, I can understand them then taking offence when what they have always done is suddenly claimed as being "joining up" or any other new buzz phrase from the NH world :P
 
I agree that many of the 'brand name' prices are excessive. The point I was trying to make is that as with any 'brand' name you pay more. If ppl are interested in NH there are ways to buy the products cheaper and get the information for free. MR runs an exclusive business but I'm not saying I agree with his prices. The fact is, whilst ppl are willing to pay it, the company will continue to charge it.
 
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