How many people are towing illegally?

[black_horse]

indeed and a very valid point neilM

im lucky, the mothership got her licence pre '97 so drives our 6 tonner with ease

but there does seem to be legislation for legislation sake....

 

[rforsyth1984]

NeilM, that is probably the MOST important point - I don't give two hoots if people get stopped and get points and fines etc - their fault, but with so many illegal towers on the road that makes for a lot of uninsured people?!

Though, I should think if its as common as we may think, perhaps some people have gotten away with making insurance claims - would they bother weighing a lorry and its load for example, there and then at the scene of an accident?

And the odd few times Ive seen a trailer gone over on the motorway, its been a car pulling it - do they claim insurance or does someone verify that the car is unsuitable (if it is, which is likely?)

All food for thought anyway!

 

[FestiveSpirit]

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Thanks for clarifying that - it's something I think a lot of people have misunderstood. We have just been shopping for a small lorry and I have viewed a number that have been 'big enough to carry 2x 16.2hh horses'. When I've asked about unladen weights I have only had one lorry owner who has been able to give me a weight. Needless to say this is the lorry that we bought. Fortunately we are ancient enough to have licences that enable us to drive up to 7.5tonnes!!

We know that the combined weight of our horses, tack, passengers, fuel, water, and the general crap that accumulates in our lorry will most likely exceed 1500kg. Given that an unladen LT35 weighs about 2400 kg this enables us to carry 1100 kgs (the payload) without exceeding the 3500 kg (or 3.5 tonne) gross weight limit (total combined weight). You quite simply cannot carry 2 large horses in a 3.5tonne lorry unless it is a very modern box built with light weight materials or has been uprated to carry a bigger load.

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I have just bought an LT35, and the previous owner advised me that for my vehicle the payload was 1 tonne - she had taken it to a weighbridge fully laden (2 x small horse, tack/equipment to go eventing, hay, water, full of fuel and her son!) and she was JUST legal

Luckily I will only ever travel my 15.2hh TB (450kg) plus kit so I know I am safe

 

[emma69]

"Category B vehicles with larger trailers i.e. &gt; 750kg, provided that the combined MAM does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the gross MAM of the trailer <u>does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle</u> . To be able to tow combinations outside this ruling requires the passing of an additional test. "

Aside from it being law to have a heavier vehicle than trailer for those post 97, the additional 85% guideline is there for a reason. I have seen a car being dragged off a road by a trailer - strong winds, inexperienced drivers, excessive speed, camber, hills etc, all mean that even braked trailers can 'overtake' or drag the towing vehicle - it is simply logical that the vehicle should be the heavier of the two. What an awful lot of people forget is that whilst a caravan, goods etc are normally stable loads, a horse is not, and the fact they can stumble while in transit, lurching their weight against the side, means your car has to have something in reserve to correct it. The forces exerted by a moving animal should be accounted for in the 15% 'safety' space you have left if you stick to the 85% rule.

I have towed (legally) a very heavy trailer with a landrover and I am very thankful it was a secured load and not a moving animal, as I found it really tough going, and certainly wouldn't want to do it in bad weather or steep hilly areas.

 

[itsme123]

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So, if you passed your test AFTER 1997 (inclusive) you CANNOT drive a 3.5 ton, fully loaded, or tow a trailer on a normal license, regardless of the adverts that say "can be driven on normal license" yes, but only if you passed BEFORE 1997!!


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not strictly true.

anyone who passed their test AFTER 1997 can tow UP TO a certain weight. Which usually involves a small pony and lightweight trailer.

Despite having checked with the DVLA and insurance we've had numerous people tell us we cannot tow a trailer with our escort estate.
erm, yes, legally, we can. The pony's only 9.3hh!!


also i thought there was no 'test' involved re trailers. it's a course.... so no 'passing' involved.

 

[rforsyth1984]

Nope, you have to pass a category B + E test, which involves driving at a high standard for 1 hour, an off road reversing manoevre, a controlled stop and 5 questions on towing maintainance/safety.

 

[emma69]

Yup, there certainly is a test! You don't have to do any course if you don't want to, you can just show up to take the test, but many places do a course with the test as the culmination.

 

[xena_wales]

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The forces exerted by a moving animal should be accounted for in the 15% 'safety' space you have left if you stick to the 85% rule.

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But that does mean that you'd not be able to take two full size horses out though? For e.g., my Discovery (which I bought specifically as it's one of the best rated towcars out there, and is rated to tow 3.5t) weighs about 2300kg. If I put two 650kg hunter types into my 1000kg trailer, then that would mean I was towing 2300kg too.

I actually agree with you, and I don't like pulling 2 horses. Yet the scenario above is within the manufacturers limits for both the tow car and the trailer, but falls foul of the 85% rule. I've heard it said on forums that there could be a case for negligence against a driver who crashes when pulling more than 85%, but I don't know if that's just speculation? Should it be frowned upon to take two horses out?

 

[MegaBeast]

Lots of people have no idea that the law changed in 1997, both those affected by it and those not which is ever so slightly worrying.

 

[miketdt]

I don't know what all the fuss is about, the test is easy it only takes 2 days training for someone who has never seen a trailer before let alone reversed one. Just remember the simple 40 percent rule, so you push instead of chase the trailer. www.topshamdrivertraining.co.uk

 

[Mithras]

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I've had my IW 505 downrated to 1800kg which means I can now tow it with my saloon car and can sell my Jeep. My horse will only travel on her own anyway.

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That wouldn't be legal either though, as the car has to weigh more than the trailer, which would mean your car would be 1800kg too, meaning total = 3.6t so you'd be over anyway??

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Wrong. That is not the law, the 85% rule is european GUIDANCE. The law allows you to tow up to the car's maximum permitted towing weight, set by the manufacturer. It is often more than the weight of the car, but for instance the landrover defender that is plated to tow 3.5t, has heavy duty brakes &amp; gears, etc to be able to do this safely.

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I wasn't referring to the 85% rule. I had assumed the poster had downrated their trailer to be able to tow on a post 97 licence, which DOES require the towcar to weigh more than the trailer, and the combo less than 3.5t, but I now realise from your reply that the poster probably has a towing licence, but that her towcar is only rated for 1800kg, which is why she's downrated the trailer.

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Just to clarify. My tow car is rated for 1900kg. Its about the biggest saloon car you can get, a Mercedes S class and its a 320 CDI, in other words its a diesel rear wheel drive with limited slip differential which actually makes it a very good towing car. OK, its not a Jeep but then it gets 32 mpg towing while the Jeep gets 19... I much prefer towing with the S class than the Jeep, which feels a bit overpowered for what I need it for. The S class (and even my E class) tow my trailer and one large horse easily, for example, if accelerating uphill to join a motorway, can get up to 60mph very easily. I do realise the brakes, etc won't be quite as suited to towing as on a 4 x 4, however the S class is a pretty over-engineered car.

However, its only a stopgap. I intend to buy a 3.5 tonne newish lorry and give up on the towing.

Another point - when I was at a BSJA show, a chap from VOSA or suchlike came round asking us if we knew the travelling rules, etc.. Unfortunatley he asked as we were all waiting for the jump off, and everyone ignored him. However it does show that representatives are turning up at shows.