How many really come sound??

Doormouse

Doormouse

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I am sorry to bring up the DDFT thread again but I am desperate to know how many horses actually recover fully from this injury. My mare has 3 tears in her DDFT where it runs over the back of her pastern. She has been very very lame since she did it which was now 5 weeks ago. It was properly diagnosed 3 weeks ago and the leg is now strapped and she has a wedge shoe. She has one bute a day which takes the edge off the pain but no more. I can't see any improvement in her since she did it and she is really unhappy on box rest. I have bought her toys, I pick her grass and dandelions twice a day, she has ad lib hay and I have now brought my other horse in from his holiday to keep her company but she still weaves, box walks, kicks the wall etc. I am getting to the point where I feel like crying every time I see her and I'm not sure if it is worth putting her through this.
Has anyone had any experience of this injury in this particular place and has anyone had a horse come back to full competition fitness with it? Please please help because I am at the end of my tether now :(. Thank you.
 
I don't know enough about that particular type of injury to make a comment, other than tendons are slow to heal but fairly resiliant if they do. I'm sure I've read though that wedges in shoes put more pressure on the DDFT than having the foot flat, because the fetlock actually sinks when you lift the heel.
I do have experience of recent box rest - my mare had an operation and was in for six weeks. She was on two bute a day for about a month, so you should maybe look at upping that dosage (ask the vet obviously), and she was also on quite a lot of ACP. She had the ACP because she got postoperative laminitis, which was very traumatic, but without the sedation I think she would have gone crazy. It's definitely not cheap, but it would give your horse a nicer time of it - I got my last lot from VioVet with a prescription from my vets.
Alternatively, I've always said if one of mine injured a tendon, I'd wait till the initial swelling went and then turn it out, bandaged and as quietly as possible, but let it move to help the healing process. It's probably worth looking taking shoes off if you were going to consider this route. Also if you were going to do that, you would keep the pain relief to a minimum to discourage vigorous movement.
Good luck, it sounds like hell at the moment.
 
Funny you should say about the wedge, because although the vet recommended it she has been worse since it was put on. I am having it removed on Thursday! I think the field rest job is the answer because I am concerned that with ACP she may be more ungainly and more likely to hurt the leg than when she is in full control of herself. I am off to the shops later to buy some more electric fence and posts! Thanks for the luck, it is indeed hell! Hope your mare is ok now?
 
Not DDFT experience but collateral ligament which is very similar. Sammy was diagnosed in late 2002 with a badly torn collateral ligament. On advice from AHT we put him on six months box rest on two bute a day. Unfortunately he came off the box rest as lame as he went in, skinny and stressed. We called it a day a week later. With hindsight I regret putting him through that but at the time MRI was very new and everyone was unsure of the prognosis, we felt we had to try.
Jesper was diagnosed with collateral ligament damage a couple of years ago. His damage was less severe than Sammy's but I refused to box rest (he's a stressy type). He had small paddock turn out and a year off work. He returned to work as a light hack for a year but unfortunately went lame again. He's now a handsome field ornament.
You know your horse best. The prognosis for these injuries isn't great, but it is improving all the time and some make it back to full work. I think you might need to have a very honest conversation with your vet. Definitely considering increasing the bute if your horse is uncomfortable. Good luck.
 
My mare is getting there thanks! She still has a big hole in her foot but she's been out for about six weeks now and although she moves much more slowly than usual she is happy. Just got to wait for the hoof to grow out now.
I was surprised how normal she was on ACP - just very relaxed/subdued - it didn't really seem to affect her co-ordination at all. She was on 250mg twice a day, which is the equivalent of nearly 7ml of sedalin twice a day, so a hefty dose. It might be worth thinking about when you do turn out. When I first turned mine out (much earlier than I was advised to) she went briefly mental, nearly giving me a nervous breakdown, but she managed not to do any damage. She was off the ACP by then!
 
Kizzy tore her DDFT last Spetember at the back of the pastern, it was a longitudinal marginal tear, David Lloyd at Liphook debrided the tendon & cut the annular ligament, it was the thickening of this that had caused the tendon damage. The prognosis of a full return to competition was good. Sadly, despite a text book rehab, the tendon has healed really well, but with a big adhesion, we rescanned her because she kept going intermittently very lame, then would come sound very quickly. David offered me more surgery, but I declined as the outcome was not guaranteed, currently she is turned out 24/7 on 1 1/2 danilon per day, the best I can hope for is that she will come hacking sound, but as she is still lame 7 months after surgery I am not all that hopeful. Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, it made it worse for me that the vets all thought she'd be fine, poor David had the tissues out when he had to tell me that my beloved mare wasn't going jumping again.
 
Mine did have some mild damage to her DDFT AND SDFT in her hind fetlock last year that is now good but something else is causing a problem! but one thing would say is be sure that taking wedge off is the right thing as offten damage is caused to the tendons in the first place as the pedal bone is too flat causing extra strain. the feet may look right from outside but without x rays you dont know for sure.
 
My mare is currently recovering from a bad tear in her DDFT in her front hoof, its deep within the hoof and was diagnosed via MRI. Shes had double wedges and then single wedges and is now in egg bar shoes. After lots of handwalking on a flat surface through winter and then being ridden but stabled since Feb 5th, shes just gone out in a small field on her own. She was turned out on 5th May, 14 months after box rest (not just for the DDFT injury) and seems to be doing really well. She has been seen running around occasionally and I can tell when shes done this as she has a little swelling around her fetlock afterwards. This seems to go down by itself and shes not on any bute etc. Vet is coming back out to see her at the end of June and my fingers are very crossed. She was only diagnosed at the end of Sept last year so its not a long time since then for healing to take place. So far so good but the tear was a bad one and we werent sure how well it would/will heal. Time will tell but shes definitely been better since being turned out. Shes still in egg bar shoes and the vet says she will probably need these for the forseeable future for support.
 
Could you ask your vet if you can make a secure stable sized pen in the field for her.

The thing about box rest is that it is an evil necessity in some cases, be very very careful that your horse is not picking up your stressed vibes or upset. Do them as a matter of fact rather than pampering around them, and leave them too it, as hard as it sounds, they settle better if it just becomes part of their day to day life than extra fuss and attention as this unsettles them more. Try and make sure that she is on a part of the yard, where she can see things going on, but away from horses coming in and out all the time, keep the radio on and just be really matter of fact about everything.

A good trick is chuck food into her bed so she has to search for it rather than giving her feeds in her bowl, do some ground handling to keep her mind occupied, parelli games, or IH games. make her work for her hay, triple net hay nets put 6 or 7 small ones all around her stable. Hang stuff in her door way so she can play with it, but to distract her from weaving.

Remember horses have no concept of time like we do, they pick up on owners feelings very very quickly, if you are slightly unsettled or upset so will she be.

We have one on cross ties for 12 weeks, and so far so good, so I do really feel for you. Can understand why the vet doesnt want to over bute her as she needs to know that hooning around the stable hurts therefore distracts from being a complete and utter loon.
 
I don't actually know what my horse did as I couldn't afford the MRI to confirm the details :o He came in lame from the field one day 12mths ago with no heat, swelling or injuries but a very acute lameness. After several weeks, intravenous steroid jabs and no improvement he went for xrays, which were clear. Because I couldn't justify the MRI expense the vet summised it was likely to be soft tissue / ligament damage of some description and recommended a course of action similar to yours.

I went through months of box rest then 'restricted grazing' (ie 12x12 paddock!) with my boy and tried wedge heel shoes trying to support the healing of his foot (they made him MUCH worse and probably delayed his recovery) and eventually I got to the stage you are now
(with a lame horse who's personality was changing because of the boredom of box rest) and with no idea whether he would ever recover :o

It was at this stage that I let my gut instincts take over, as I deemed that the vets suggestions hadn't worked (and the farriery had clearly made him worse) :(

....I had always thought it odd that you shut a horse with a weak leg in a confined space- thus forcing it to turn tightly- and creating a stressy environment that 'most' will explode out of at the first opportunity... So I sedated him and turned him out in a huge meadow with a quiet pal, where he stayed for 6mths :eek: I also put him on a Cosequin supplement that he had added to chaff and a vits supplement to give him the best chance... I figured he would either come good, or he would have enjoyed a pleasant time being a 'real horse' again before being PTS (I knew I couldn't afford to keep a 17hh 4yr old field ornament on livery) :o

I started backing / riding him a couple of months ago and *touches wood* my big lad is still sound and thoroughly enjoying being in work :D
 
Apologies for sounding like such a complete bunny-hugger! I tried to make some adjustments to the post to be less emotional and more factual but missed the 5min deadline!
 
Marchtime, so sorry to hear about your 2, it is obviously a horrid injury and by the sound of things one that often happens through no lack of care or management which makes it all the more heartbreaking. I am seeing the vet tonight and am going to try and make him be as honest as possible about her prognosis. When I saw her this morning she was barely weight baring on it which is awful to watch.
Kizzywiz, how awful to have gone through all that and a good early prognosis and still be facing a lame horse, my heart really goes out to you. I hope that she improves.
Scally, thank you for those tips, stupidly I hadn't thought of giving her lots of haynets! I was filling one huge one and nearly killing myself hanging it up! I think you are right that she is picking up on my tension and also because she is pretty dangerous in her box anyway (she kicks, bites, pins you to the wall etc) she knows she can wind me up all the time. Predictably the OH won't go near her so I think I get really stressed trying to do the right thing for her on my own all the time, silly really because as you say better really to treat her as usual. The problem with the yard I keep her on is that all the horses are out full time but come in at random times to be ridden so it is either very quiet or a hive of activity which sends her potty. I hope your one on cross ties gets better.
MuckyMeech, don't worry at all, I thought you first post was lovely and really pleased to hear your boy is sound. I must admit that reading your post made me think that I would agree that to keep something in such a confined space with the turning etc isn't a great idea. I will certainly look into finding somewhere I could turn her out, I sort of feel at the moment I've not got much to loose!
Thank you guys for the help and advice, I'll keep you updated on how she gets on.
 
Thanks Cantieflower for taking the time to write some kind words when you are so worried about your own horse. I truly hope you get the result you want. Kizzy seems happy enough pottering about in the field, I just keep thinking maybe I should have done something differently, my own vet & David at Liphook both told me that I am being too hard on myself & sometimes things just happen, but deep down I don't understand why that adhesion is there if we stuck to all the walking & stuff. This time last year we were preparing to do MK3DE, we had the most fab summer, then suddenly all gone & it breaks my heart. Let me know how you get on, my thoughts are with you as I know only too well how you are feeling.
 
My horse has a 4cm tear in his left hind DDFT in the fetlock area, he's been on box rest for 6 months.

In February after my vet had failed to find anything wrong he was referred to Rossdales where he had his annular ligament cut and also the tendon debrided.

Three months ago I started hand walking building this up to 50 minutes a day despite so very bad behaviour, during this time he has had two IRAP injections.

He is currently 1 tenth lame in trot on a hard surface and two tenths on a circle. I have been told he will never be fully sound and will be at best a very light hack.
(So much for his dressage and showing career :().

On Saturday he started small paddock turnout (15m x15m), I'm luckily because he's fairly sensible and has so far respected the electric fencing and not done himself more damage.

I've been told to start riding him in walk, introducing trot work in a months time then if all goes well he'll be able to go out in a flat, well drained field with a small quiet herd in two to three months.
 
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Hi, I'm going through something similar to you with a mare with SDFT injuries in both front legs, we are just coming up to 9 1/2 weeks on box rest. It hasn't been easy and the only way we have coped is with Sedalin 2x a day at first, that stopped about a month ago and also allowing her to graze whilst her stable was being mucked out. Initally that was under close supervision (whilst school holidays were on) then just allowed out in the field. We had stopped the bute by then so just prayed the pain would limit her antics. No problems now, she has been out free range for roughly an hour a day whilst I do the stables, then back in with her nut ball which she really looks forward to. I think the time out at grass has helped keep her sane. In this time we also had to move yards, I was very lucky with the new yard run by a retired vet and my mare is in the best stable for seeing all the action on the yard plus the horses out in the field. I'm sure that has helped too.

I would say she trotted up sound or pretty close to it about a week ago for the first time, which we were so pleased about of course. Tomorrow she is off for the first stage of stem cell therapy thanks to her NFU insurance and then straight off to stud whilst these cells are grown on to do whatever they do with them next. I haven't decided what to do with her when she comes back from stud, I hope to return to in at night, out during day routine. I just don't think you can wrap them up in cotton wool forever... Now she is more or less sound in trot, I feel happier about doing this than if she was still all gimpy legged.

Don't give up, I think it gets easier for both of you the longer it goes on. 3 weeks seemed to be a very difficult time for us, then she seemed to accept it. We are planning on not re-introducing any work until this (hopefully) foal is weaned, so that will be sometime in Autumn/Winter 2011.
 
MuckyMeech said:
Apologies for sounding like such a complete bunny-hugger! I tried to make some adjustments to the post to be less emotional and more factual but missed the 5min deadline!
Click to expand...

I thought you made some very good points,and not at all bunny hugger. I have grave doubts about box rest.The body doesnt know in advance the strength of tendon required. Tendon fibres are built to accomodate the load applied. If no loads are applied ,only a minimum of repair will occur. It is a ballancing act,(training is definately an art not a science)too much too soon or too little for a long period ,then thinking it must have repaired ,Bang it goes again. It is also worth remembering that there may be a conformational predisposition to this, and it is not just a question of getting the horse back to where it was before the injury because that is when the injury occured. (sorry ,sounds a bit Irish that).
 
Isn't that why you do all the hand walking though? To build the strength & help the fibres grow in the right direction without the horse over straining it? I agree about the conformational thing, Kizzy had a similar injury on the right hind previously, David Lloyd told me that it was because something in her genetic make up made her prone to this type of injury.
 
Sadly the conformation thing is right because I know that Lizzie has long pasterns and flat feet, thereby opening her up to the type of injury she has. The vet came last night and the swelling is much worse, all round her pastern now, she is completely non weight baring and the vet is tentatively giving her a very remote chance of being sound enough to do more than hack for the rest of her life. I think I probably now have only one option because sadly due to her conformation and temperament (windsucks, weaves, aggressive in her stable etc) I cannot breed from her, it would be irresponsible to do so. She cannot be turned out with other horses because she hunts them round the field all the time and she is a terrible hack because all she really likes to do is jump. Therefore, taking all that into consideration and the quality of life she is likely to have in the future I think it is kinder to pts now. She is in so much pain this morning that she didn't even bother to move for her haynet, I just don't think it is fair to put her through this anymore. I will keep you all updated and I have really appreciated all your kind words and my heart goes out to all of you who have lost the horse you loved, life can be awfully unfair sometimes.:(
 
Oh Cantieflower, that is so sad. I wish you all the best, from what you write I would be doing exactly the same if she was mine and I was in your situation. :(
 
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