How many sycamore seeds are you really able to pick up?

The first time (end Nov 2014) her symptoms were mainly respiratory, she had COPD anyway so I was always a bit watchful of her breathing. This particular day her breathing was very bad, so I called the vet, and by the time they arrived she was getting unsteady on her feet, it looked like she was tying up is the only way I can describe it, They took bloods and as a precaution she was admitted to hospital to start her on fluids etc whilst we waited for the results. This probably saved her life.

The bloods showed some raised enzymes but not enough to call it EAM, she improved really quickly so in the end it was put down to a respiratory illness. I should have heeded this warning shot, but I didn't. I thought she was safe, it wasn't EAM, horses had grazed those paddocks for years and no ill effects, and even now, she is the only horse (touch wood) to have died from it in our area that I know about anyway.

This last time, her symptoms were much more colic like but with muscle tremors and drenching cold sweat. The vet did take bloods but this time we didn't admit her to hospital until a few hours later when the results were back. I think at this point, despite the excellent care she received the odds were already well against her. They worked so hard to give her the best chance but in the end she could not be saved. It is not a peaceful way to go.

It's bought about a lot of recrimination at the yard etc but honestly no one is at fault but me, I was responsible for her safety and I failed on so many levels.

Of course now I am analysing everything. There were subtle changes to her behavior days in advance of both illnesses, for example she'd be reluctant to leave her stable, was less forward going ridden out but because she was prone to being footy at times, had COPD and was arthritic it was easy to attribute these symptoms to one of those conditions. She was such a genuine horse, I should have looked beyond the more obvious reasons and seen the bigger picture. Still, with regard to the subject of EAM, it makes me think maybe it's a cumulative thing rather than just one bad seed/seedling.
 
skint1 said:
no one is at fault but me, I was responsible for her safety and I failed on so many levels.
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No you didn't. Like so many of us, you did what you thought was right and probably what the majority of others would have done. I very much doubt that I am the only one to say that I know there are sycamores near my fields, and seedlings in some fields, but I am just trying my best to clear what I can - there will still be some I miss.

This awful thing seems to be some kind of sick lottery so don't blame yourself x
 
So very very sorry for your loss Skint1, this is such a dreadful illness and seems to strike randomly making it so hard for us and another thing for us horse owners to watch out for whilst praying it will never happen x
 
Skint, so sorry to hear of your loss. I recognise the feeling that you have failed your horse & tbh there are days I still struggle with that. I know it is hard to do but please log your case with the University of Liege on their website. If you haven't already found them there are groups on Facebook about EAM & they are great when you need to vent. There is so much to learn about this horrific condition & I doubt we will ever be able to minimise the risk, just learn as much as we can to mitigate the risk & be able to act quickly if necessary.
Sadly there are still vets who are not up to speed & that needs to change. One of the most depressing things last year was to attend an event where a vet gave a talk about EAM only to realise he wouldn't have considered it for my horses as his knowledge was out of date.
 
skint1 said:
The first time (end Nov 2014) her symptoms were mainly respiratory, she had COPD anyway so I was always a bit watchful of her breathing. This particular day her breathing was very bad, so I called the vet, and by the time they arrived she was getting unsteady on her feet, it looked like she was tying up is the only way I can describe it, They took bloods and as a precaution she was admitted to hospital to start her on fluids etc whilst we waited for the results. This probably saved her life.

The bloods showed some raised enzymes but not enough to call it EAM, she improved really quickly so in the end it was put down to a respiratory illness. I should have heeded this warning shot, but I didn't. I thought she was safe, it wasn't EAM, horses had grazed those paddocks for years and no ill effects, and even now, she is the only horse (touch wood) to have died from it in our area that I know about anyway.

This last time, her symptoms were much more colic like but with muscle tremors and drenching cold sweat. The vet did take bloods but this time we didn't admit her to hospital until a few hours later when the results were back. I think at this point, despite the excellent care she received the odds were already well against her. They worked so hard to give her the best chance but in the end she could not be saved. It is not a peaceful way to go.

It's bought about a lot of recrimination at the yard etc but honestly no one is at fault but me, I was responsible for her safety and I failed on so many levels.

Of course now I am analysing everything. There were subtle changes to her behavior days in advance of both illnesses, for example she'd be reluctant to leave her stable, was less forward going ridden out but because she was prone to being footy at times, had COPD and was arthritic it was easy to attribute these symptoms to one of those conditions. She was such a genuine horse, I should have looked beyond the more obvious reasons and seen the bigger picture. Still, with regard to the subject of EAM, it makes me think maybe it's a cumulative thing rather than just one bad seed/seedling.
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Please don't blame yourself. There is so much still unknown about this dreadful illness. No-one can say why some horses are affected and others aren't. You didn't fail her in any way at all.

x
 
Does anyone know when the toxin is less dangerous? I read it gets less toxic as the summer goes on but when is it safe if ever?
 
selinas spirit said:
Does anyone know when the toxin is less dangerous? I read it gets less toxic as the summer goes on but when is it safe if ever?
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The article below seems to say they get less toxic as summer goes on. Not sure if I would risk it though. I prefer to remove them. I only have one tree so I can remove the majority (took me an hour a day for 2 months).

http://www.celticequinevets.co.uk/news/
 
So sorry for your loss skint1, it's been 6 months since my sister and I lost 2 of ours. Feel like we have spent hours picking seeds and mowing and still panicked about the others safety
Hopefully highlighting our losses will help prevent others
 
Trules said:
There's a tree in the field, always has been, there have been horses grazing in said field for all my lifetime, I have never heard of any illness. that is why i am reluctant to get upset about it.
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Sorry to be blunt but you need to pull your head out of the sand, a family member lost one to EAM in 2013 in a field where horses had grazed for 40 years, the first death was put down to heart isues she was found dead (by me) no symptoms prior except subtle muscle tremors, a year in and we nearly lost her half brother., saved only as hairucob on here had posted her experience and so we asked vet if it was possible. Another pony a kept few hundred yards away died s it was treated as colic until it was too late to save him.

Everyone can say fields grazed for years blah blah but what ever changed changed and horses are dying, you're. Fool not to take heed of that!
 
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The seeds/seedlings are just everywhere, I can understand why people choose to ignore the risk because where do you even start? Ragwort management is a walk in the park by comparison. Rolling the dice and hoping for the best is fine until the day that it isn't, I will be haunted by it for the rest of my days.

I will visit the website for University of Liège, the more we learn the better we can mitigate the risk.
 
Truly sorry for your loss.


I've been picking the blasted things up daily, although it seems like an endless task with approx 25 acres of fields to do. :( They get everywhere and we've been lucky enough that the neighbouring field owner took two trees down for us.
 
I've been puzzled by the 'sudden' appearance of this disease too. It sounds to me like the toxin is being given to some parts of some trees by some kind of disease, which is spreading into trees which have never had it before. So trees that used to be safe can't be guaranteed to stay that way.

I am so sorry for all of you who have lost horses, and for the terrible worry for all of you with sycamore near your horses :(
 
So sorry for your loss. At my old yard we lost three in two days. Its a horrid way to go. They started with tiny muscle tremors then it very quickly turned into extreme choke and azoturia. They were dripping in sweat. Temperature rapidly drops and their gums goes very bright red.

I have one sycamore near my field, thought I had two but it would seem the copous seedlings I have been religiously collecting were in fact ash, I still collect them though, just in case.

To manage picking them up I fenced off a small ish sized paddock at the furthest point away from the tree with electric tape and picked them from that area, every few days I move the tape along about 2ft and pick them along the line where I move it from. I am finding this much easier than picking one big paddock.
 
I realised when picking the seedlings that it was a bad idea to have left the ash seeds, of which there were more, last autumn as it's often hard to because which is which at the early seeding stage.
 
charlie76 said:
So sorry for your loss. At my old yard we lost three in two days. Its a horrid way to go. They started with tiny muscle tremors then it very quickly turned into extreme choke and azoturia. They were dripping in sweat. Temperature rapidly drops and their gums goes very bright red.

I have one sycamore near my field, thought I had two but it would seem the copous seedlings I have been religiously collecting were in fact ash, I still collect them though, just in case.

To manage picking them up I fenced off a small ish sized paddock at the furthest point away from the tree with electric tape and picked them from that area, every few days I move the tape along about 2ft and pick them along the line where I move it from. I am finding this much easier than picking one big paddock.
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This is what my daughter and her friend are doing with their two geldings (in the field next to my mare) but the poor farmer he had no idea about EAM and he's really trying to do all he can. I believe he's using a weed killer on the fields to try and kill the seedlings but the trees are on the roadside, they belong to the local council, I am not sure if they will allow him to take them down.
 
I thought I didn't have any Sycamore trees, I have had further investigation and found 2, although not in the field. Both are very large with sparse leaves - and certainly there weren't any 'helicopters' last year. I am hoping they are like the old Oak we have which doesn't seem to produce acorns. What I thought were Sycamore seedlings could be Ash as they are both very similar. We do have a lot of Ash trees around.
 
Are sycamore leaves always green? Have seen some trees with what look like sycamore shaped leaves but are a reddish/ brown colour not bright green.
 
I did have a red one in my garden - a maple rather than a sycamore I think. #I wasn't taking any chances as my neighbour has horses & it has gone.
 
If anyone needs to kill one one and can't afford to pay tree fellers, you can buy extremely concentrated glyphosphate (Pathclear) from agricultural stores in five litre bottles. If you drill holes around the bottom of the trunk and squirt in undiluted glyphosphate from a syringe , it will kill the tree. At the moment, it's legal to buy it, but it won't be for much longer without a certificate that you have attended the training to use weedkillers, so don't wait if you intend to use it. It would, of course, be illegal to poison someone else's tree this way without their permission, or any tree with a preservation order on it.
 
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