How much do you talk to your horse during a dressage test?

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Vodkagirly

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Ok I know you shouldn't but honestly who uses voice commands during tests?
I haven't been but wondered if it would help especially in eventing tests when I can't carry a whip. How much can you get away with (this is low level unaffilated stuff)
 
You cant legally get away with anything, but what the judge cant hear doesn't hurt them ;)

Especially if they are in a car or enclosed box.

I use a gentle woahh or a singular quiet click of the tongue if necessary, but not actual words as the judge can see your mouth moving!

I can really only see it helping however if your horse responds to them well in training.
 
To be honest if I am still at the stage where I need voice commands I tend not to compete the horse.

That said, when training the youngsters I'll try and get them used to subtle sounds/noises, that can be cunningly slipped into a test if needed - normally as simple as one sound for 'go forwards' and one sound for 'woah' - that I do use, especially in the early stages of competing.

I also use a 'good boy/girl' reward - at home this is vocal along side a quick scratch of the neck with inside hand - at competitions I'll often drop the voice but still use the neck scratch if they have done something particularly well, or if they have tried hard at something they have been struggling with.
 
A very well known, high up dressage rider was at a clinic once and said one of her horses would only stop if she said "Woa" so she had to say it very quietly and hope the judge didn't hear.
 
I got eliminated for use of the voice at a test in March - so my answer would be WAAY too much. It was quite funny tho. Think it may have been the particular words used as much as the amount I used them!!
 
I talk ALL the way through - especially in important transitions and during the free walk

Except of course I make sure I'm a ventriloquist, and don't move my lips! It's the right tone that makes all the difference.

Use of the voice might be illegal, but I still encourage my pupils to do the same as me.

74.6% last time out affiliated BD.... so we must be doing something right :)
 
A little! Normally, 'good boy' or 'woah'. I think it helps with my breathing as well, thereby relaxing me and taking my mind off nerves. I think as long as your not shouting or doing it right in front of the judges box/car its not the end of the world!
 
siennamum said:
I got eliminated for use of the voice at a test in March - so my answer would be WAAY too much. It was quite funny tho. Think it may have been the particular words used as much as the amount I used them!!
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I need to know what words!
My horse is v hard to keep in front of the leg (understatement of the year) and I think it would help canter transitions and the occasional spook attempt. I talk all the time schooing often but havn't in dressage but in my last test I could here the person in the next arena and wonder if it was a trick I was missing.
 
My RI told me off (nicely!) for clicking the other day. The worse thing was I hadn't even noticed I was doing it. :o So really trying to stop it now. I did give a little very low pitch growl the other day to stop Cam breaking in canter in a test and I don't think the judge could have heard that. :p
 
The second to last test I did, they used a horsebox for the judge to sit in... so every time we went close to it "Don't worry, it's just a horsiebox, it wont hurt you, just a horsiebox, good boy, chill out, goooooood". :p I think the judge may have just ignored me though thinking I was clearly a lunatic ;)
I've also been known to swear a lot & not had that marked down :o however, our marks may have been low enough already...!
Only done two affiliated tests but talked/laughed through those, but I think the judge may have had the car windows closed - it WAS freezing! Its the best way to keep Dante chilled I find :)
 
The use of the voice in a dressage test isnt allowed for a reason.....

The horse should be trained off the aids and responsive to your leg/rein and seat. Any youngster I ride is trained that way from the beginning, mine are dressage horses and there is no point teaching them from voice commands when the use of the voice is not permitted in a test.
 
I watched a Mary King demo and she has all her horses trained to strike off in canter from a 'mmm-mmmm' noise! Can be done v quietly and without moving the lips. She said when you're sat on something 4* fit, which is ready to explode, sometimes it's a tactful way of getting the transition without ended up in the next county or words to that effect. It was hilarious watching her, as every time she made the sound, the horse she was sat on (on the buckle, just sat relaxed as he stood/mooched round the arena whilst she was talking), struck off in the most perfect, balanced canter!
 
Tempi said:
The use of the voice in a dressage test isnt allowed for a reason.....

The horse should be trained off the aids and responsive to your leg/rein and seat. Any youngster I ride is trained that way from the beginning, mine are dressage horses and there is no point teaching them from voice commands when the use of the voice is not permitted in a test.
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That said, I do use my voice initially when training along with the aid for whatever is being ridden, i wouldnt take a horse out competing until it was off the aids and i didnt have to use my voice at home.

Each to their own though!
 
Not atall :eek: When first breaking something or riding a driving pony that's done very little then I use them, but always make sure they're off the rider for ridden tests! Too obedient not to :o
Driving tests obviously you're allowed to speak so I do then- but then you don't have seat/legs and it's one of your key aids... I'm pretty quiet in driven dressage tests anyway as all mine get used to my quiet voice and go forwards without constant encouragement.
 
Sunflowers said:
I talk ALL the way through - especially in important transitions and during the free walk

Except of course I make sure I'm a ventriloquist, and don't move my lips! It's the right tone that makes all the difference.

Use of the voice might be illegal, but I still encourage my pupils to do the same as me.

74.6% last time out affiliated BD.... so we must be doing something right :)
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Not doing something right, cheating, it is against the rules and is giving an advantage over those who don't do it.

Not picking on you particularly, the test of dressage isn't about how well a horse responds to your voice but your physical aids, I love that everyone is casually throwing the rule to the side. If you need use of voice you shouldn't be competing or at least let the horse do what it will if you don't use your voice.
 
I try not to use my voice at all in a test, but sometimes on a baby a well timed click can get their attention back on you if needed. I have also been known with my older horse to reassure him vocally, again if needed, but then he's a very sharp and can panic if he feels it all gets too much. Sometimes just a soothing noise can settle him instantly.

I do try hard not to though!
 
Depends on how badly the test is going - more than once I've misjudged a corner after rocketing round and found myself cursing (quietly to myself ;)) when we go over the boards or do a mucky circle :D
Honestly, don't really say much. I have one one occasion clicked my tongue at a local one, but no one seemed to hear ;)
 
What I dont understand is that its a rule thats in place, the same as you cant ride a BD test in a martingale - you wouldnt do that as the judge would see it and its against the rules. So why use your voice which is also against the rules??
 
Tempi said:
What I dont understand is that its a rule thats in place, the same as you cant ride a BD test in a martingale - you wouldnt do that as the judge would see it and its against the rules. So why use your voice which is also against the rules??
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There are lots of things that are against the rules but people still do it .... Rollkur being the main talking point at the moment!

I think people are misunderstanding. The use of the voice isn't instead of the aids and shouldn't be used regularly or constantly throughout the test, but if needed it can be used with discretion in a difficult situation. If the judge hears you, you take your chance of losing 2 marks for that movement.

I'm sure the pros competing their super hot horses will give a soothing murmur at some point during their career ;)
 
SpottedCat said:
I watched a Mary King demo and she has all her horses trained to strike off in canter from a 'mmm-mmmm' noise! Can be done v quietly and without moving the lips. She said when you're sat on something 4* fit, which is ready to explode, sometimes it's a tactful way of getting the transition without ended up in the next county or words to that effect. It was hilarious watching her, as every time she made the sound, the horse she was sat on (on the buckle, just sat relaxed as he stood/mooched round the arena whilst she was talking), struck off in the most perfect, balanced canter!
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I've seen her do this too - genius!!

JB x
 
Hmm... but in a sense, I don't think of dressage as about 'aids', more about 'lightness' and how well both horse & rider do their respective part. I don't actually have many strict verbal ridden cues, the only one Dante finally responds to is 'whooooaaa' but I'm trying to avoid this as it is more of a slam the breaks on transition than one that encourages him to collect, which is the opposite to what I want. But if he'd do it the way I wanted on just a verbal aid, I'd be over the moon personally :p Nowt much lighter than a vocal cue, surely?
My thoughts are a bit pointless though becase a) I only tend to use my voice for reassurance (why let a horse get stressed unnecessarily? Seems silly to me, I want my boys to learn that dressage is fun/safe, not scary!) and b) I've pretty much given up on competing for now, it's too damn expensive & prelim/novice tests bore me, and Dan wouldn't really be ready for competative elems.

I'd much rather see someone talk to their horse anyway than kick it, whack it, spur it, or yank on it's mouth :p
 
Tempi said:
The use of the voice in a dressage test isnt allowed for a reason.....

The horse should be trained off the aids and responsive to your leg/rein and seat. Any youngster I ride is trained that way from the beginning, mine are dressage horses and there is no point teaching them from voice commands when the use of the voice is not permitted in a test.
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With all the horrid controversy about Rollkur and other dodgy training practices, you're seriously complaining about people using their voice as a training aid?

It is the most gentle and yet most effective aid in many instances - SpottedCat's example of Mary King using her voice on a nervous horse is a wonderful one.

The rule should absolutely stay: frankly if the Judge can hear you talking to your horse, you are using the voice excessively.

My personal experience of training all kinds of horses from babies-PSG is that Aural aids are tremendously effective (as any driver or competent lunger will attest) so using them super-discreetly in a test is not "cheating", it's great horsemanship that can yield amazing results.

But as you say- each to their own, and not worth getting our knickers in a twist about :) :) :)
 
I don't think Mary King's horses were nervous - more like incredibly fit and rather excited by the prospect of the impending XC! :)

I don't think Tempi was complaining about the voice as an aid in and of itself - more that it is banned under rules and therefore why is it deemed to be a less important rule than any of the others - why do people feel it is ok to break this one, but not, say, for an open rider to ride in a restricted section (which is also breaking the rules!).
 
SpottedCat said:
I don't think Tempi was complaining about the voice as an aid in and of itself - more that it is banned under rules and therefore why is it deemed to be a less important rule than any of the others - why do people feel it is ok to break this one, but not, say, for an open rider to ride in a restricted section (which is also breaking the rules!).
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Exactly. It's that old talking point, if you don't agree with a rule does that mean it does not apply to you? ;)
 
SpottedCat said:
I don't think Mary King's horses were nervous - more like incredibly fit and rather excited by the prospect of the impending XC! :)

I don't think Tempi was complaining about the voice as an aid in and of itself - more that it is banned under rules and therefore why is it deemed to be a less important rule than any of the others - why do people feel it is ok to break this one, but not, say, for an open rider to ride in a restricted section (which is also breaking the rules!).
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Exactly, its a rule for a reason and is no less important than any of the other rules.

TarrSteps said:
Exactly. It's that old talking point, if you don't agree with a rule does that mean it does not apply to you? ;)
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:D
 
i too have been to a Mary King demo where she explained about using her voice, in that case it was that rolled/growled "Rrrrr" which she uses to give the horses the cue for extended work.
i use my voice, carefully, sometimes, in tests - to settle a tense one, usually, or if a half-halt isn't being attended to enough. i regard it as being the lightest aid, and i don't see it as cheating... i thought most people did it (judiciously!) if necessary. can always get away with a "good girl" under the breath without moving the lips... nice way to reward the horse if you can't take a hand off the reins, i thought.
never been picked up on it yet... ;) ;)
 
Our judges are never in a car or an enclosed box - always open or at a table.

I use mine sometimes, a quiet click if needed or say his name in a stern way :p

Did however let out a couple of expletives at the last one when I forgot a movement!
 
Sunflowers said:
With all the horrid controversy about Rollkur and other dodgy training practices, you're seriously complaining about people using their voice as a training aid?

using them super-discreetly in a test is not "cheating", it's great horsemanship that can yield amazing results.

But as you say- each to their own, and not worth getting our knickers in a twist about :) :) :)
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No knickers in a twist for me (nothing like a healthy debate) but I do disagree strongly, breaking the rules for benefit of your performance is cheating, whatever the rule, however discreetly.

The rolkur point is rather taking it to the extreme, and there are rules in force about rolkur or hyperflexion (whatever it is called :) ), they just aren't enforced.

To be fair about to start judge training and use of voice when I am writing (about to start judging) is a bit of a pet hate, though obviously I would rather that than a kick or a yank in the mouth but there actually isn't a need for either. use of voice is against the rules, heavy use fo hands or legs can be penalised in the collectives and should affect the overall picture affecting the marks.

Still no-one's perfect and as you say each to their own, if you want to cheat, you pays your money you takes yer chance as they say. And just because a top name does it doesn't make it right, rolkur being a case in point :)

Ps not all that aimed at Sunflower, all just part of the debate :)
 
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