How much does it 'hurt' vets if we ask them to write a prescription?

brighteyes

brighteyes

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I have just been online to check a couple of prices and the two items I expect I may have to use from the vets will be £124 inc vat and if bought online £59 inc vat and free postage. So, even adding on the £20 fee to write two prescriptions, it is saving me a not inconsiderable sum. None of mine are insured and I pay promptly (usually on the day and have left any overcharges as a credit on my account) and obviously stuff administered on 'emergency' call-out, I never ever question.

I still feel uncomfortable about asking them to do me a 'script. Should I?
 
Yes, of course you should get the prescription. I got ACP online when one of mine was on it for a few weeks, and the vets said that they couldn't even buy it in for the price I could get it online. They were interested, not annoyed!
 
On the one hand, yes, you are entitled to so why not? That is a huge difference.

However, I think its worth remembering that these internet companies do not care for your horse in times of trouble, arrive promptly to emergencies, console you when the worst happens or provide advice to the concerned owner. Vets ARE priced out of the market. If you compare the cost of 1hr of a vet's time versus one hour of any other professional's time, there is a huge difference. The mark-up on drugs at the vets helps to offset this - but be well aware that the price the practices pay for drugs is nothing like the internet prices. IF all clients (or all major clients at least) were to go internet shopping for all non-emergency drugs/bandages then its not unlikely that practices would need to lose staff(and remember there would be the same number of clients), thereby meaning that resources would be stretched and potentially you could be left waiting with an emergency if there arent enough vets to cover the calls - or worse still your local practice has to cease trading so you depend on a practice from further away.
This may seem extreme, but many many smaller farm practices are in this situation currently (due to farmers buying milking tubes/wormers online).
Also, many of the big veterinary "chain" practices (a few of which are equine) do get drugs cheaper - not that much different from internet prices - but from what I have seen are no cheaper/more expensive than their competitors. These practices may be easier to barter with as their "cut" is higher (though probably their overheads are too!)

However, in your case, that is such a huge difference it would be silly not to get the prescription. Is it longterm treatment?
 
glenruby I was hoping you'd answer! I telephoned the vet, of course, to see if treatment might be necessary for a productive cough in a horse not particularly off colour and only symptom being an intermittent cough and yellow snot on exertion. I was anticipating (and more than happy to have) a visit and Norodine (current AB of choice) being prescribed along with, or maybe preempted by, Ventipulmin. This is based on a different horse having similar trouble last year and she had 1 x V followed by 2 x N before it cleared, and we called the vet straight away she began coughing on that occasion too. He came out and couldn't find any sounds or other symptoms but there was this snot very much in evidence. Today's check revealed surgey price (still) £63.40 for 10 Norodine and £61 for Ventipulmin. A quick look at the Internet finds one company selling at under £17 for the Norodine and £42 for the Ventipulmin.

Last time, the Norodine price had a similar difference so we had a prescription written, but we bought the Ventipulmin off the vet, as partial recompense (guilt).

Surely the £20 they write for two items on prescription goes some way towards covering the markup lost on the drugs, though?

I am fully aware of the reason everything is dearer from the vet - except the huge price differences simply look like greed on the vet's part to me. A tenner I could stomach but nearly a 300% mark up? And 50% on the Ventipulmin? Are they bound to one supplier? I appreciate beezness is beezness but I can't afford to ignore massive opportunities to save a bit of cash like these. I think they do well enough to offset the likes of me from those whose horses are insured and it's money no object for sundries and many other things. Plus, when we had our pony pts two years ago, I said just debit my card. I didn't want to know the price as I was too upset. I've been a loyal and uncomplaining customer for thirty years.

Oh, I almost forgot - vet's advice? Keep an eye on her, turn her out and give her (=) bute for a couple of days. Didn't even want to see her... I even laid it on a bit thick with her symptoms! Agree with vet that AB's are the last resort, but am still 'worried'! Gah!
 
Id still have wanted to see her. If the owner wants the horse seen, then it should be seen surely! Yes, the prescritption probably would go some way to cover costs etc. The thing to remember is - its not 300% mark up. I know we have had issues with costs of farm drugs. Our farm practice is essentially a 3vet practice - we obviously do not need to buy drugs in the same quantities as a 4/5/6 vet practice - therefore we do not get the sma eprice deals. On a greater scale, big chain practices eg XL Vets can buy in far far bigger numbers (as they have 45+ practices) - and hence get drugs at far cheaper prices from the companies. Internet companies buy on a similar or greater scale again to these big chains - thereby they can afford to sell at much lower prices and maintain their mark-up.
Having said that - our Norodine is quite a bit cheaper than yours (about £20 cheaper) and Ventipulmin about £8 cheaper I think. We are a 4.5-5vet equine practice.

If i was faced with a difference in price as you have found then i wouldnt hesitate to get a prescription.
 
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It's a very big practice, mostly horses and has about 10 vets. Just amalgamated with another practice, so not a small outfit. I can understand your POV about a visit, though I wasn't too worried about them NOT seeing her because there's little evidence of anything and the vet said she didn't want to immediately launch a full scale attack if the horse wasn't off colour, running snot of coughing badly. Even some high jinks and a vigorous roll and shake failed to provoke even a sneeze, so heaven knows.

Maybe I won't need to face the awfulness of shopping around.
 
we mark all our drugs up 100% with v rare exceptions. sometimes though we cant even buy them in at the cost you can get them for on the internet. i still get my wormers/Seraquin etc off the internet as it's cheaper than getting them at cost - work that out if you can!

worth discussing with vet - some might be willing to drop the price to the cost of the internet price plus script price meaning you pay the same and they still make some profit!
 
Gosh, star - and what a clever idea! I'd go for that, but not, obviously if the practice can't get them for the price I can. That really wouldn't be fair to them. Guess there's no harm in asking, though. Thank you. I'm really pro vet, and agree there's no finer sight than them zooming into your yard when there's a crisis on :)
 
Why don't the vets buy the drugs off the internet ? Danilon had gone up from £35 ish to £65 from my vets in a couple of years !

I'm tempted to get a prescription
 
I'm lucky, only my dog has regular meds, this has only just started so not looking online just yet, and not sure I will. My vets are happy for me to ring for advice whenever I like, they will often leave me prescriptions out for various things without a visit (which saves me a fortune), several times I have called in to pay a bill and happened to see the dog's vet who has 'demanded' I bring him in so he can check him over, there has never been a charge when this has happened. All in all, I feel very lucky to have my vets, they do not charge ridiculous prices and are really good to me so I don't begrudge paying a bit extra for drugs given all the 'free' help they give me. If i had an animal on long term meds I might feel differently but there again, I am sure I would be able to negotiate with the vets to some extent.
 
glenruby said:
Id still have wanted to see her. If the owner wants the horse seen, then it should be seen surely! Yes, the prescritption probably would go some way to cover costs etc. The thing to remember is - its not 300% mark up. I know we have had issues with costs of farm drugs. Our farm practice is essentially a 3vet practice - we obviously do not need to buy drugs in the same quantities as a 4/5/6 vet practice - therefore we do not get the sma eprice deals. On a greater scale, big chain practices eg XL Vets can buy in far far bigger numbers (as they have 45+ practices) - and hence get drugs at far cheaper prices from the companies. Internet companies buy on a similar or greater scale again to these big chains - thereby they can afford to sell at much lower prices and maintain their mark-up.
Having said that - our Norodine is quite a bit cheaper than yours (about £20 cheaper) and Ventipulmin about £8 cheaper I think. We are a 4.5-5vet equine practice.

If i was faced with a difference in price as you have found then i wouldnt hesitate to get a prescription.
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now here is a thought for all the small vet practices, have you considered pooling resources and becoming a "co-op" to increase your buying power. this is happening with small petrol stations in rural areas and also some small shops. you still keep your individualness but this increases your buying power?

and by co-op i don't mean everthing merged just the routine drugs
 
I know our local vets EVERY MONTH put up their drug prices to the client by 3%. That is regardless of whether it is already stocked drugs or not, so some with a long shelf life could have had their price inflated many times. Mind, I did hear from the senior vet that in the last bad frozen spell, they lost over £35,000 of horse business alone, some because of people moving to cheaper practices. I agree, they have to live too but there's no use in fleecing the cash cow that many horse owners are to them or they will move away/get internet drugs.
 
This might be a stupid question but if owners can get one off drugs off the internet cheaper than the Vets can get bulk buys then why one earth don't Vets buy the drugs from the same place as owners can get them so cheap?
 
NOISYGIRL said:
Why don't the vets buy the drugs off the internet ? Danilon had gone up from £35 ish to £65 from my vets in a couple of years !

I'm tempted to get a prescription
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Vet practices and Internet Pharmacies in the UK all buy from the same three wholesale companies. Because (sadly) in simple terms, internet pharmacies present such huge business opportunities to the large drug companies the drug companies will provide them with MASSIVE covert discounts. This appeases the drug company shareholders as profits rise and more product is shifted (and easily) but in the long term can surely be unsustainable? I totally agree with you looking to protect you wallet in this instance, its only human nature - the real trouble is the future, as someone else has said, vets need to pay the bills somehow - and pay for expensive new equipment, etc, etc. To stay in business they will have to recoup the money lost to IP's somehow, and rest assured - the client will end up paying (small animal, large animal and equine). The internet pharmacies are useful to us now because they are still relatively new. In America things are very different and changes in pricing and business models are reflecting this. Not meaning to sound alarmist - but much further down this road we will have given so much power to the IP's they will be able to charge more - and we still lose!

So vets theoretically can buy from the internet companies, but this just adds fuel to the fire and will get us to that end point in the road much quicker - either way, when the time comes that a high enough percentage of products are sold through IP's - they then hold all the cards.

hollyandivy123 said:
now here is a thought for all the small vet practices, have you considered pooling resources and becoming a "co-op" to increase your buying power. this is happening with small petrol stations in rural areas and also some small shops. you still keep your individualness but this increases your buying power?

and by co-op i don't mean everthing merged just the routine drugs
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You are right and there are several examples of this around the country - it is a growing trend. In most cases they seem to be quite beneficial to the vets BUT they can never be of an IP scale (and dont forget the IP's have comparitively tiny overheads). The other trouble is that some buying groups get better deals with certain drug companies, or the buying group almost dictates what products should and shouldnt be used (on a like for like basis). Once again, the client is in the position where cost is the driving force behind the use of a certain products, almost regardless of its efficacy, etc. A complicated web is being woven with all this and the sad fact is, at the very end of the day, the biggest group of individuals who stand to lose, is us - the consumer.

Now I feel all doom and gloom - and I didnt mean to!!
 
My vets actually suggested I get the pergolide for my pony from the chemist as it was far cheaper than they could supply it, and on one occasion one of the vets even phoned round their local chemists for me when the chemist I used wasn't able to supply. I think most practices do realise people have to try and save money somehow.
The buying power of some of the internet companies is huge which is why the can undercut so much. This doesn't just happen with drugs, I work in a clothing shop and some of the large stores (e.g. matalan) sell the same items as us at a lower price than my boss can buy them in from the suppliers.:mad:
 
Ooh, I can answer this having done a work up today!

I've just sourced the big dog's painkillers, phoned to see how much the prescription will be and worked out that I'll be saving £173 annually by ordering online. The basic price for the meds is £13 something, I'm being charged £40 a time at the vet and he doesn't need to see the dog, so no visit except to pick up the meds (7 doses, one-off prescription charge: my maths is crap so I may have worked this out wrong!)


I accept that the vet would see the dog/horse in an emergency and works long hours, having spent years qualifying, but me too and I value what I earn, having got it through hard work.
 
I couldn't agree more about looking after what you've earned - we all should! :) Just a shame we get shoved into corners we sort of cant get out of! On the one hand we choose cheaper products online - brilliant in the short term, long term we could start to suffer.

Be interested to know where you got you nett price of £13 from for the dog meds - does sound like a high mark up if vet selling at £40. Or was the £13 the internet price and I've got confused?! :D
 
Mugsgame said:
I couldn't agree more about looking after what you've earned - we all should! :) Just a shame we get shoved into corners we sort of cant get out of! On the one hand we choose cheaper products online - brilliant in the short term, long term we could start to suffer.

Be interested to know where you got you nett price of £13 from for the dog meds - does sound like a high mark up if vet selling at £40. Or was the £13 the internet price and I've got confused?! :D
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I'm buying the same product, no way would I compromise on what goes into my dog-learnt my lesson on that big time. :(

The site I used was Hyperdrug. The net price was just over £13 for the correct dosage compared to the bill from December where I just picked up the meds at the vet, no visit with the dog.
 
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