How much for 3.5 yr old?

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Kirstd33

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I’ll keep it fairly brief in the ongoing hunt for a horse we’ve been offered a different proposition. A 3.5 yr old bay gelding, currently 15.1 but definitely bum high so should make 15.2/3 and although in good shape will definitely fill out more and muscle up. Came over from northern Ireland in the spring and is a connie x ISH. Had a basic 2 stage vetting at that point. Basic ground work been done by the girl selling E g leading, feet, bridle and bitted but tbh we’ll assume nothing and are happy to go very slow and take our time. Very sweet temperament on the ground with both my daughter and I on the 2 occasions we’ve met him. Confirmation wise I’m not expert but moves straight, tracks up well and no obvious dishing, paddling, close behind that sort of thing. He does have a small old hard splint on his back left leg and if I’m being really picky and ever so slight parrot mouth but again ever so slight. Hooves are too long and need trimming again nit picking. What would people think he’s worth? I can send photos privately if people
Fancy a look?
 
Thanks and yes I would have totally agreed, however where Coblet is kept now the lady has wealth of experience having backed several of her own and has said that she would help us at every stage. Or as an alternative for the actual backing I have found a brilliant couple locally that have an amazing reputation for starting horses so we would pay to send him there.was just interested in what people thought his value might be approximately?
 
TheMule said:
Why haven’t they backed him? They will have devalued him so it doesn’t make much sense to not get on board and do a few weeks riding. It's a big red flag for me.
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Bra cause he’s only 3.5 and still bum high and she prefers than to be closer to 4 he’s not advertised for sale as she was going to keep him and back him herself but just offered him to us as he is
 
Kirstd33, the backing is the easier bit, you then have the riding away. Which takes longer and a considerable skill set. I would echo what IHW states, dont buy an unbacked one. When things start going wrong you will see your helpers back off quicker than the speed of light. Using pros to get mileage on youngsters costs £££, i know because thats what i do. I do that as they are homebred and i want them to have the best start in life.
If you need help to bring on, youd be better off saving the money and getting one older.
 
myheartinahoofbeat said:
Isn’t it ok to leave him until he’s four.
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Sure. But why would you import an unbacked 3 year old and sell on still unbacked? He will have cost more to buy, vet import and keep to this point than he is worth now, so they will be losing money on him and that doesn’t make sense. Unless there’s a reason to not continue on with him.
 
I bought a 4 year old, 2 years ago and have spent a lot of money having him backed, ridden away, lessons, more help etc. He has now presented with a lot of body issues.

I would be on much higher alert now as others have posted - the horse above would have been bought to add value to so it does not make any sense selling him unbacked.

The rehab yard my gelding is at is full of young irish horses of 5 and 6 that are having extensive rehab. Not to scare you but it has been an incredibly difficult time for me - emotionally, financially, timewise etc
 
TheMule said:
Sure. But why would you import an unbacked 3 year old and sell on still unbacked? He will have cost more to buy, vet import and keep to this point than he is worth now, so they will be losing money on him and that doesn’t make sense. Unless there’s a reason to not continue on with him.
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The OP does say that the seller was intending to keep the horse herself, and that he hasn't been advertised for sale.

A lot of people on here say not to back an immature horse at that age. Maybe he is really too backward and they want to give him a chance to grow up, or maybe he keeps decking people and it's all dodgy. Who knows?

I didn't back my part-bred Connie until she was five - just not grown up enough. I had a PBA that I first sat on not long before her third birthday and a cob that I backed at four. Sometimes you just have to go with how the horse is.
 
A bum high 3.5 year old could very well be a bum high 8 year old.

If you factor in the cost of backing (and I agree that is the easy bit) and then the cost of riding away (the expensive bit) to achieve the safe horse you want it will not be cheap. I would put the money into buying what you need now.

Sadly I also know of a fair few 'unbacked' horses that then proved more than tricky as the new owners had not been told that some-one had previously tried and failed to back the horse.
 
eggs said:
A bum high 3.5 year old could very well be a bum high 8 year old.

If you factor in the cost of backing (and I agree that is the easy bit) and then the cost of riding away (the expensive bit) to achieve the safe horse you want it will not be cheap. I would put the money into buying what you need now.

Sadly I also know of a fair few 'unbacked' horses that then proved more than tricky as the new owners had not been told that some-one had previously tried and failed to back the horse.
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Absolutely this!!
 
Kirstd33 said:
Bra cause he’s only 3.5 and still bum high and she prefers than to be closer to 4 he’s not advertised for sale as she was going to keep him and back him herself but just offered him to us as he is
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Maybe this is the reason (I’m being generous here!), but even if it is and he is a genuine, untried, nice temperament 3.5yo - I really don’t think this is the way to go, even if you have some help available. Don’t be swayed by what I suspect is a cheaper price than what you have been looking at. As for price, it’s difficult to say without assessing the horse in the flesh. 4 figures but I couldn’t narrow it down from that.

There are however little niggly red flags in the story that people who know how turning around Irish imports works, are picking up on.
 
cornbrodolly said:
A pound to a penny he s been backed before he crossed the water. A million red flags to this one, sorry.
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Almost certainly this, but if he wasn't before he came over then I would be asking why? A massive difference in asking price between a totally unbacked young Irish horse and one that is already backed, hence they are often backed too young (IMHO of course) before being sold on. I smell a rat somewhere in this unfortunately.
 
Crikey, doesn’t anyone leave young horses now until 3.5 yrs plus before they’re backed? He’s just 3.5 yes old, was 3 in feb and still a little Bum high, He came over from Ireland in feb and has just been in a field since with a girl we know ( 100%) aside from doing some slow gentle ground work. But I’ll bow down to your greater experience and pass on him I think due to the high levels of suspicion around him being backed before he came over.
 
I don’t know anything about buying horses from Ireland but if being backed would increase his price then why back him and lie about it?

OP if you trust the girl who has him now can you get more details on his origins in Ireland and see if he came from somewhere reputable?
 
Would I buy an unbacked 3.5yo? Never, not in a month of Sundays unless it was so feral the chances of someone having attempted to sit on it were worse than zero.

Why?
- Someone selling a 3.5yo could spend a few weeks getting it backed and get literally thousands more - if all the prep work is in place then the initial sit would literally take only a few minutes. Take a photo, whack up the price. Why would someone not do that unless there was a reason not to? Horses that don’t back easily don’t come right easily, and many times that is because there is a physical issue that a vet may or may not be able to help with. Or they might just have a screw loose and some of those never come right.

Would I buy an ‘unbacked’ horse of over 2yo from Ireland without known history from someone I personally knew? No. Could easily have been backed or driven prior and something wrong found, hence shipping to England and selling as unbacked.

I wouldn’t buy a horse from a stud that is older than they normally sell on, either. Same thing - why didn’t they sell at the usual stage or keep until backing?

Should you, in your situation OP buy an unbacked horse? Also no.
- You were worried about weight limits for your daughter. Any horse just being backed should only carry 10-15% of its body weight due to lack of muscle and immaturity. A young horse will take years to reach full carrying capacity. You can ask them to take closer to their max weight of rider at 5.5/6yo, fully muscled up.
- Backing a sweet tempered, tame horse is usually easy as pie. Literally they just shrug and go, ‘Ok then.’ Riding away any horse, even the easiest ones, is a process that takes years, a truckload of rider confidence and a fair few whoopsies along the way. You were looking for a sweet and sane all rounder. Even the best youngsters take years to get there.
 
I wouldn't take the risk either. It would be easy to have a little play then sit on, if the horse were easy. If the horse is not advertised, I would wait for the owner to back, turn away, bring in and ride away some, then you'll see what you're going to get.

I think this horse would be every bit as risky as an oldie, for you.
 
I hate to continue the doubts expressed here but I think everyone may well be right. Two years ago I bought an Irish sport horse two weeks after being imported, end of July. She had just turned 3 at the beginning of June, she d been backed and ridden away, jumped, hacked and done at least a days hunting for photos and videos. I paid £6k. She has had a professional trainer ride her twice a week and teach my daughter too ever since, so a lot of financial input is ongoing. Interestingly it’s only this summer that daughter has said riding our mare now is like riding a proper horse in that she can get on and do anything..she s not having to “teach” the baby anymore. So to get to that has taken a while..to get there from a completely unbroken horse will be costly in time and money.
 
sollimum said:
I bought a 4 year old, 2 years ago and have spent a lot of money having him backed, ridden away, lessons, more help etc. He has now presented with a lot of body issues.

I would be on much higher alert now as others have posted - the horse above would have been bought to add value to so it does not make any sense selling him unbacked.

The rehab yard my gelding is at is full of young irish horses of 5 and 6 that are having extensive rehab. Not to scare you but it has been an incredibly difficult time for me - emotionally, financially, timewise etc
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I bought my girl as a 2 year old, she was backed last Spring as a 4 year old and is now pretty knackered as a 5 year old with recently diagnosed with juvenile arthritis! She’s only been in the arena around 10 times and not even cantered yet🙈 I would buy a 5/6 year old next time that had been in work at least a year or two and had done stuff! Buying a youngster is such a risk!
 
Ali27 said:
I bought my girl as a 2 year old, she was backed last Spring as a 4 year old and is now pretty knackered as a 5 year old with recently diagnosed with juvenile arthritis! She’s only been in the arena around 10 times and not even cantered yet🙈 I would buy a 5/6 year old next time that had been in work at least a year or two and had done stuff! Buying a youngster is such a risk!
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I totally agree with you. I would only ever buy another horse that has been in consistent work. Mine has PSD, juvenile arthritis and I am not sure what else. It has broken my heart. I am so sorry that you are in the same boat. x
 
I turned down an unback 3.5 year old about 18 years ago, bought an ex-racer instead. I should have bought the baby, I knew his full history and at 25 I had the skills and bravery to do it. At 40+ with two kids, I don’t. He was a lovely stamp of a NF, leg at each corner and very chilled.

Now I would spend the same buying and backing a baby over time then I would to buy ready made.
 
sollimum said:
I totally agree with you. I would only ever buy another horse that has been in consistent work. Mine has PSD, juvenile arthritis and I am not sure what else. It has broken my heart. I am so sorry that you are in the same boat. x
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Oh god! Poor you! It’s shit isn’t it! I have a 23 year old who I had as a 6 year old who is still going strong!
 
In the last couple of years I have heard of several young connies that have been extremely difficult to back and ride away. Just saying that maybe they are not the easiest if you do not have a lot of experience.
 
Ali27 said:
Oh god! Poor you! It’s shit isn’t it! I have a 23 year old who I had as a 6 year old who is still going strong!
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I have had my 18 year old cob since he was 6, he is now looking sounder than my youngster. So maybe 6 is the right age to buy them! I am glad yours is still going strong.
 
sport horse said:
In the last couple of years I have heard of several young connies that have been extremely difficult to back and ride away. Just saying that maybe they are not the easiest if you do not have a lot of experience.
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I wonder if that is because some (not all) have suspensory issues.
 
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