How much help would you give another livery?

baran

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Mother and daughter came to yard at the beginning of March. This is the first horse they have owned and seller delivered it to yard. Everyone said to ask if they needed any help.
Three days later they asked me to tack up. I said I couldn't but I would stay and talk them through anything they were having difficulty with. The mother said that was no use and asked one of the yard staff. She assumed the horse had been playing up a bit and they were nervous so tacked up then went away. The daughter rode, I assume, then they asked one of the staff to untack. The YM intervened and said that this wasn't one of the staff's jobs. There was a bit of a row, in which it transpired that neither mother nor daughter had ever tacked up and didn't know how to do it. YM said that was OK, staff would do it, the service would be charged for and would include teaching them how to do it.
I don't know how the lessons are going but they are still asking other liveries to tack up for them. One woman, who has just had a baby and is not back riding, did it once. The second time she said (joking?) that in exchange the mother could change the baby's nappy. It wasn't taken as a joke and they now don't speak to her. (They haven't spoken to me or OH since I said I couldn't do it.)
Daughter has posted on Facebook that YM is money grabber and other liveries are unfriendly. I am trying to decide if we are being unfriendly or they are being unreasonable. The staff finish at 6 and it isn't a huge yard. People come and go at different times so you can't assume that there will be someone there to help you.
What do other people think? It doesn't help that they can be quite rude, to staff and to other liveries, if things don't go the way they want.
 

NellRosk

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I don't think you are being unreasonable at all, you go there to do your own horse and whilst it is great to help people out once in a while they cannot expect to go to a yard and get all that help for free!
 

ROMANY 1959

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I have and still do give lots of help to novice owners on our yard, if I see something dangerous like low hanging hay net I will show them how to tie up correctly, and I also explain what may happen should the pony or horse get its leg stuck!!!
But I do encourage them to learn from mistake . I do not profess to know it all and I often end up asking YO something if I am not sure. I do hope they start being receptive to learning how to do things for the horse, as it's a shame if the horse should suffer because owner was ignorant about how to do something.
 

Meowy Catkin

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They need to learn to tack up and untack their own horse, so the YO's plan of the staff teaching them how to do it for a small fee (as it's not included in the livery) seems the best way forward. If the fellow liveries always did it for them, there would be no incentive for them to learn to do it themselves and it would become grating.

I would have no problem supervising them tacking up/untacking several times while they learnt, or even checking that everything was OK before they got on a few times, but to just do it for them like a servant... no.
 

Goldenstar

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What a strange attitude from the new owners .
If I where you I think I would seek to stay out of it it's the YOers issue to manage and they have handled correctly we will teach you and charge you .
I have where the YO I would be ditching them for the FB posts troublesome nasty people ruin yards it's sad for the poor horse .
It's one thing to help the hapless and stupid and IMO that's exactly what people like this owners are sadly they are all to common now but everyone starts somewhere and I have devoted loads of my time freely to people who start to get 'it ' and want to learn .
But being a permanent unpaid servant to two nasty ungrateful people no way .
 

SadKen

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Whatever the circumstances, if someone is horrible, I'm not going to go out of my way to make their life easier.

Would I have helped them if they had been nice? Yes - every time if necessary. I'd have arranged to spend an hour with them talking them through tacking up, untacking etc. But these two sound like a right pair, so not only would I not be helping them, I would also stay right out of their way, whilst only giving them a smile and a hello.

I give them... three months max before they're outta there.
 

ihatework

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A livery with that kind of attitude would get the cold shoulder!
TBH, if I was the YO and found such a Facebook comment they would be given their notice.
 

zaminda

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If that was me, they would be getting no help whatsoever. I say that as someone who will help anyone. The attitude that someone else should do it for them, sucks to be honest. If I was the yard owner, they would be on full livery, and I would be telling them they needed to get some stable management lessons too.
Sounds like a case of people buying a horse with no knowledge at all!!
 

soulfull

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Whatever the circumstances, if someone is horrible, I'm not going to go out of my way to make their life easier.

Would I have helped them if they had been nice? Yes - every time if necessary. I'd have arranged to spend an hour with them talking them through tacking up, untacking etc. But these two sound like a right pair, so not only would I not be helping them, I would also stay right out of their way, whilst only giving them a smile and a hello.

I give them... three months max before they're outta there.

A livery with that kind of attitude would get the cold shoulder!
TBH, if I was the YO and found such a Facebook comment they would be given their notice.


these ^^^
 

WandaMare

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If they asked me I would refer them to the YO and keep out of it. I should think the reason they are being offish is because they know they have taken something on which they don't know anything about and feel defensive.

I had a mum and daughter like them take a pony of mine on loan. The daughter rode the pony well when they tried him and they said they had experience of keeping horses. Turned out daughter had been having riding lessons but didn't know anything including how to tack up. I had to go through everything with them a number of times to get them started and they were unfriendly and ungrateful to me.

It all ended badly when I asked them firmly but politely to close the field gate after bringing the pony in (I had asked them a number of times already and there were other horses grazing in the field. They would just walk through it and leave it swinging dangerously in the wind!) and the mother gave me a mouthful.
That was it for me, I had no choice but to ask them to leave. IMV it was all defensive, aggressive behaviour because they knew they were completely out of their depth.
 

armchair_rider

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I think they're taking the mick to say the least. They don't seem to be interested in making progress in looking after their horse and their attitude towards the staff and their fellow liveries stinks. If I were in your position the only reason I would be helping would be concern for the welfare of their horse - and that seems better left to the yard staff.
 

WelshD

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Whilst they are being very unreasonable I think in the spirit of cooperation the YO (or someone else) should show them once how to do it for free and tell them no assistance will be forthcoming after that.

If they want it done for them then yes they should pay for each time but showing them step by step very slowly just once really isn't too much of a hardship, its not like it would need repeat lessons

Its not rocket science after all
 

Alchemy

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A livery with that kind of attitude would get the cold shoulder!
TBH, if I was the YO and found such a Facebook comment they would be given their notice.

This I am afraid, if they cant even tack up i worry about how would they deal with a medical problem!?
 

madlady

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With the attitude that they have I wouldn't be offering help - again if I was the YO I'd be having serious words with them about whether they should have a horse!
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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Words fail me basically..... that someone can buy a horse without having a clue, and then go onto a yard, and expect everyone there, both YM/staff and other liveries, to basically wipe their backsides for them. And in return for the YM trying to solve a difficult situation by saying OK so we'll teach you, but will need to charge for "instruction", they start dissing them on Facebook.

I'm a YO and here its strictly DIY (unless an emergency situation), so if someone came here and patently couldn't do FA with their horse from the word go I'd just give them notice as I don't "do" instruction of any sort, full stop. There would be a presumption that anyone coming onto a DIY set up, or yard in general TBH, would be confident at the very very least at basic stuff like tacking up, picking out feet, etc etc. I feel very sorry for the YM and her staff in this instance and it is a very difficult situation they have had to deal with.

But here........ they'd have been up the road as soon as it became evident that this was the situation, and I would have been suggesting they would be far better off at another establishment where instruction & support IS available. The Facebook issue would seal it for good. Yes OK people have to learn somewhere, but they firstly need to know that they're novices and need help, and then be prepared to accept that help AND PAY FOR IT. And place themselves on an appropriate yard where that help is available, not expect people to do it all for them without payment, and then start dissing them for that!!

Truly appalling, every YO/YM's worst nightmare I would think.

But ultimately the poor horse in all of this, is the one I truly feel very sorry for.
 
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milesjess

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Why have they even got a horse if they can't do the basics... That's what annoys me.

But no I don't think the yard owner is being unreasonable. It's down to the horses owner to tack up etc unless they are paying.

I'd happily help anyone now and again but ultimately if I'm at the stables it's to be with my own horse and not helping others with theirs all the time.

A bad attitude is never a good thing. They sound very rude and as if everyone should drop what they are doing to help them out, when it is really their own fault for not learning how to care for their horse properly.

I wouldn't get involved, as it sounds like it's going to turn bitter very quickly. Unless they are doing something really wrong or horse is ill etc, I'd refuse at this point as it sounds like they don't appreciate it.
 

Spring Feather

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When my liveries come and ask for help for a problem they're having, I tell them I'll show them 3 times and then they're on their own (but I do check they've done it properly for a few times after that). Usually I only have to show them twice and they get it. OP I think your YM is right for putting some rules in place; if the people don't like it they can jog on.
 

Elsiecat

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When my liveries come and ask for help for a problem they're having, I tell them I'll show them 3 times and then they're on their own (but I do check they've done it properly for a few times after that). Usually I only have to show them twice and they get it. OP I think your YM is right for putting some rules in place; if the people don't like it they can jog on.

I'd think this would be very fair.

I must admit when I got to the yard with my first horse, I had no idea how many things I didn't know! Don't get me wrong - I could tack up and perform day to day care, but there was an awful lot along the way that I realised I didn't have a clue about. I'd ask somebody to show me or I'd google it. Luckily everyone was very helpful. But I think the people the OP is talking about are taking the proverbial a little.
 

STRIKER

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Ofcourse there are always 4 sides to a story, his, hers, everyone elses and the truth, however i would happily help, its my nature, whilst often taken the wrong way as interfering, never mind i sleep straight at night, however i would insist on them doing the tacking up with me so they learnt.

I am currently looking after a lovely cob, full time, muck out turn out bring in hay and feed and pick out feet, treat with fly spray at no charge, because it doesnt kill me to do it and i hope the good lord looks down and oneday when i need help, he will provide, which in fairness when i look at the bad situations i have been in, i have always come out good the other side.
 

Steorra

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Having been in a similar situation with a fellow livery I can understand the dilemma. Years ago a novice, nervous new owner moved her horse into the stable next to mine. At first her requests for help were polite and I didn't mind showing her how to do things, checking tack, etc. But they quickly became less like requests and more like orders, and no matter how many times I showed her how to put the saddle in the right place or which way round the bit was meant to go she would say "yes, yes!" impatiently and then ask me to do it for her again the next day.

In the end I just said sorry I'm busy every time she asked. Years on and she is just the same, always looking helpless and asking other liveries to do things for her, except now she doesn't speak to me apart from tutting loudly! Fortunately there's a core group of people at the yard who are wise to her now, but for a while she made my life pretty unpleasant by gossiping with the other liveries, just because I dared politely decline being her skivvie.

So although I'd feel a bit sorry for the new liveries in the OP's post, who have clearly bitten off more than they can manage, I'm afraid I wouldn't be helping anyone not actively trying to learn, or showing them more than once or twice :(
 

Cowpony

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I think it's one of those situations where the specific circumstances make a lot of difference. I'll happily help somebody if I've got the time, particularly if they are inexperienced. I'd rather help them than see the horse being ridden in badly/wrongly adjusted tack. Or if somebody at the yard is in a rush and asks me to tack up for them while they get something else urgent done, of course I'll help. They would do the same for me.

But if I was being asked to tack up because they didn't know how to do it and they paid no attention to what I was showing them (this has happened once - girl just stared blankly into space while I did the work!) or asked several times without having even attempted to do it themselves I think the milk of human kindness would start to run out. The kind way of doing it is to do what the OP has done and say you'd be happy to watch them do it and help if they get into difficulties. If that didn't work I think I'd suddenly become very "busy" whenever they came near me! :D

I have had a couple of occasions where I've been helping to sweep the yard late in the evening (it's a riding school as well as a livery yard), suddenly realised I've been the only one out there for quite a while and found the staff/helpers in the tackroom nattering or on facebook. I've usually found I need to get home at that point!
 

armchair_rider

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Whilst they are being very unreasonable I think in the spirit of cooperation the YO (or someone else) should show them once how to do it for free and tell them no assistance will be forthcoming after that.

If they want it done for them then yes they should pay for each time but showing them step by step very slowly just once really isn't too much of a hardship, its not like it would need repeat lessons

Its not rocket science after all

I agree with you in general but I think tacking up is probably going to need more than one lesson. It's easy enough to get a bridle into a complete tangle - and even once people know what they're doing they might still want reassurance. One lesson should certainly be enough for something like mucking out though.

I'd think this would be very fair.

I must admit when I got to the yard with my first horse, I had no idea how many things I didn't know! Don't get me wrong - I could tack up and perform day to day care, but there was an awful lot along the way that I realised I didn't have a clue about. I'd ask somebody to show me or I'd google it. Luckily everyone was very helpful. But I think the people the OP is talking about are taking the proverbial a little.

I think there's a major difference between knowing the basic day to day stuff - even if you may have to ask for help with it occasionally - and knowing nothing. There's certainly a major difference between someone like you who was trying hard to learn as much as possible and people like the OP describes who don't seem to be making any effort at all.
 

skint1

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I'm on DIY and so we often help each other out but honestly I think expecting someone to tack up your horse is above and beyond, but I have never been on full livery. Come to think of it, years ago when I worked as a groom for a short time at a very posh hunter barn in the States we did tack up for the clients, but that was really top dollar place.

That said, sometimes my friends will help me with my horse's noseband, I don't have a lot of strength in my fingers for fiddly jobs like that, and if someone is on and needs something adjusted we all help each other
 
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SO1

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I would always help someone if they asked and I had the time to do so. However if I did not have time I would politely say I would like to help but I do not have time today please can you ask someone else.

In this situation if I had time I would show them how to tack up and then said if they need help again I would supervise them but they would need to have a go themselves. If they refuse to even try then I would ask them why they won't try having a go themselves under supervision as if they don't learn then they will be limited and only able to ride when someone is available to tack up which is limiting.

I can understand why YO is saying they should pay if her staff have to stop what they are doing to help or provide a service that others would normally have to pay for.
 

Dexydoodle

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Ive willingly helped out fellow liveries, including tacking up, mucking out, hay in fields etc. My mare is my first horse and has always been in a snaffle and we were looking at putting her in a pelham for fun rides and one of the other liveries showed me how. Ive asked billions of daft questions im sure, someone had to show me how to do stable bandages when she got a really nasty kick and was on box rest. The difference seems to he, I want to learn and I listen to the answers! Might check ive done it right a couple of times but I wouldn't just stand back and expect someone to do it for me with no intention of trying myself or listening.

I think you handled it well saying you'd watch and help. I'd leave it to the yo now as their attitude is pretty poor and it sounds like theyre going to end up causing trouble!
 

mandwhy

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Gosh I think this person has been watching too much TV or something, only a few yards would charge enough for such services.

I would show someone how to do something as many times as they needed, if they were unsure but genuine I'd happily show them, assist them and check their work ten times if they needed, but these people clearly aren't interested in learning how. To be honest I was always paranoid about positioning the saddle correctly when I had my first couple of share horses so I'd just ask someone if it looked Ok. Also things like small scratches or bumps and what sort of level of concern they required.

Owning horses often involves swallowing your pride and admitting you don't know, some people find that hard to accept!
 

Honey08

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Personally, the first couple of times they asked I would have gladly shown them, and I would hope that yard staff would take two minutes to show/help/check them too. I imagine the reason that they're asking different people is to avoid being charged. It does sound a bit six of one, half a dozen of another - they sound a bit rude, but nobody has really gone out of their way to help them, despite everyone telling them to ask if they needed help when they arrived.
 

Cherrydan

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Well, I didn't know a thing when I got my first horse! But I had heaps of passion and thank god for google...its the desire to know, the passion, that would convince me whether to help. I went DIY too, but I studied like mad before and during: horse care, horse psychology, horse anything, lol...on paper I know a lot more than I can demonstrate, lol, but after nearly 5 years of having ahorse, I have still an awful lot to learn. Thats the beauty of life and owning a horse...you can never know too much :)
Just to add, before I moved to a one man yard, I told him I was a novice and he used to stick around to help a little, he even showed me how to slice carrots, bless him...I paid him in cupcakes and cleavage, lol...he was a real ogler, but I have a lot to thank him for.
 
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