How much notice to give

[Abacus]

Without giving too many details. If someone has been a ‘livery’ without paying - by agreement in return for their help at the yard. They have 4 horses and have been there for 6 years. Nothing in writing and as there’s no payment there is no regular schedule. In normal circumstances I’d just say give a month’s notice but it seems a bit short when someone has 4 horses and nowhere to put them, plus no money really to pay livery elsewhere (yeah, complicated). Any thoughts?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I have just been in the same situation, but less horses. Helped YO for years for reduced livery. Given 1 months notice to move due to her change in circumstances. It was hard enough trying to find a suitable yard for 2 never mind 4. Hope it works out for you.

 

[Abacus]

I have just been in the same situation, but less horses. Helped YO for years for reduced livery. Given 1 months notice to move due to her change in circumstances. It was hard enough trying to find a suitable yard for 2 never mind 4. Hope it works out for you.

Gosh, sorry to hear that. I am trying to do the decent thing and not put anyone in an impossible situation.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Gosh, sorry to hear that. I am trying to do the decent thing and not put anyone in an impossible situation.

It was very much a shock and out of no where. I thought a months notice, especially after doing her horses through this crappy winter ( she has 3) was a bit of a kick in the teeth. But apparently that's the norm. I have been extremely lucky in finding my boys a beautiful yard still very close to home, 5 mins. I can't imagine trying to find a home for 4 horses. A little longer might help her out a lot.

 

[ycbm]

Without giving too many details. If someone has been a ‘livery’ without paying - by agreement in return for their help at the yard. They have 4 horses and have been there for 6 years. Nothing in writing and as there’s no payment there is no regular schedule. In normal circumstances I’d just say give a month’s notice but it seems a bit short when someone has 4 horses and nowhere to put them, plus no money really to pay livery elsewhere (yeah, complicated). Any thoughts?

I think I would want to give her 3 months notice but make it clear that I need her to start looking immediately and leave earlier if she can, then keep checking what progress she making. This situation has a big risk of of the time just coming to an end and her still being there. I feel for her, though, 4 horses and no money to pay for livery, what on earth is she going to do?
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[Glitter's fun]

Without giving too many details. If someone has been a ‘livery’ without paying - by agreement in return for their help at the yard. They have 4 horses and have been there for 6 years. Nothing in writing and as there’s no payment there is no regular schedule. In normal circumstances I’d just say give a month’s notice but it seems a bit short when someone has 4 horses and nowhere to put them, plus no money really to pay livery elsewhere (yeah, complicated). Any thoughts?

It sounds as if this is a very casual arrangement; word of mouth between two friends. Can you ask her to start looking straight away and be gone as soon as possible but by 3 months at the latest? Does she already have some idea about your change of circumstances? It might not come as such a shock to her as you may think.

 

[Roxylola]

I was thinking 3 months too but that you don't expect them to wait it out if they find somewhere sooner

 

[Abacus]

I think I would want to give her 3 months notice but make it clear that I need her to start looking immediately and leave earlier if she can, then keep checking what progress she making. This situation has a big risk of of the time just coming to an end and her still being there. I feel for her, though, 4 horses and no money to pay for livery, what on earth is she going to do?
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Yes, I think 3 months is reasonable. In a way I feel for her but then... they have about 15 horses, not just the 4 with me, and that is a lifestyle choice of theirs.

At the moment I am not totally decided on doing this, but increasingly feel taken advantage of. (The balance of benefit is very much in their favour). It's very difficult.

 

[ycbm]

Yes, I think 3 months is reasonable. In a way I feel for her but then... they have about 15 horses, not just the 4 with me, and that is a lifestyle choice of theirs.

At the moment I am not totally decided on doing this, but increasingly feel taken advantage of. (The balance of benefit is very much in their favour). It's very difficult.

Well that changes things. 3 months, no argument, no guilt on your part necessary.
.

 

[nagblagger]

If you are not sure, could you have a meeting with her, start with expectations of her responsibilities in writing. Maybe introduce a small charge for her horses if her help doesn't cover livery for 4 horses.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Just be honest and transparent. No arrangement lasts forever, things change and Life Happens. Plus they have had a very good deal for a very long time and should not be taking it for granted. I know we all get used to things, but bottom line is, they have horses and need the financial wherewithal to keep them. Or not keep them as the case may be.

As others have said, tell her asap, give her a reasonable amount of time, but with a deadline as otherwise it could go on forever.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Or possibly - if you do intend to still have liveries, let them know that the 'free livery in return for work' arrangement is ending in x months, as it is no longer financially viable for you, and you need income from those 4 stables. So they can stay but need to pay like everyone else, and will no longer be expected to work for you. So they then aren't actually homeless! And also can move them off one at a time with a reduction in costs to them each time. That might be more manageable for them than having to find a ard with 4 spaces at fairly short notice. And they will have to pay wherever they go, so it's not unreasomable to expect them to pay you too, if the original mutually beneficial arrangement is not working out anymore for you.

 

[ihatework]

I’d give them 1 months notice on the exchange of labour agreement and then a further 2 months to remove horses (those 2 months paying livery).

 

[Polos Mum]

I’d give them 1 months notice on the exchange of labour agreement and then a further 2 months to remove horses (those 2 months paying livery).

This is a great option, if she can move quickly (move them to where the others are perhaps) then that will happen soon.
If it's more tricky then you've given her 3 months in total. You can set a livery figure that a touch below the local going rate if you wanted to help her out even more.

It's horrible when a fair arrangement gets out of balance slowly over time, it's hard to pinpoint and eventually it's something small that is the straw that breaks it.
You feel terrible about asking someone to leave over something that, described cold out of context on Facebook sounds terrible, but these things build over time.

 

[Abacus]

This is a great option, if she can move quickly (move them to where the others are perhaps) then that will happen soon.
If it's more tricky then you've given her 3 months in total. You can set a livery figure that a touch below the local going rate if you wanted to help her out even more.

It's horrible when a fair arrangement gets out of balance slowly over time, it's hard to pinpoint and eventually it's something small that is the straw that breaks it.
You feel terrible about asking someone to leave over something that, described cold out of context on Facebook sounds terrible, but these things build over time.

This is exactly what has happened - slow changes that have affected the balance. It's not malicious but is now feeling a bit unfair.

Well that changes things. 3 months, no argument, no guilt on your part necessary.
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Yes. I didn't give this detail before because it didn't seem relevant (their other horses elsewhere) but it is part of the overall picture - they can't really afford the lifestyle they are leading and in a sense I am supporting a bit of it.

Thank you for the thoughts and balanced opinions - this is helpful and gives me some options that I can share with them.

 

[94lunagem]

Yes. I didn't give this detail before because it didn't seem relevant (their other horses elsewhere) but it is part of the overall picture - they can't really afford the lifestyle they are leading and in a sense I am supporting a bit of it.

Its commendable you are trying to be fair and balanced about it, but I actually think it is very relevant.

As @ycbm writes further up before you shared the additional information, 'what on earth is she going to do'. My answer to that knowing they have 15 horses is sell some! And to be honest would probably have been the same even at 4.

I agree one month isn't actually that long to find somewhere and make arrangements, three months should be plenty for her to consider her options, and advertise/sell if necessary.

I can sympathise, a long time ago I had a similar arrangement and through no particular fault or intent, things do creep and I also ended up feeling taken advantage of. I had what I thought at the time was an honest and open conversation about her moving on, or paying for what services I was providing, which she clearly took exception to and within a week had packed up and left without saying a word and whilst I was at work. Never to be seen again!