How much professional assistance to have when training?

Interesting replies, thanks! Bit alarmed that LEC and m_m are trying to credit me with thinking/having a thought process, though.

I was surprised to see, when I read What Will Be, that WFP sends his away for DR schooling. I just wldn't have thought he wld have needed to, but it makes sense. His focus is on eventing, rather than pure DR, so someone whose focus is on pure DR may well be able to school his horses differently.

I guess the question, Tarrsteps, was at what point does it become a bit farcical? If someone else does vast amounts of schooling, for example, are you showcasing your own abilities and the results of your hard work at an event, or are you just sitting on the produce of someone else's work, trying not to wreck it? As you and Lolo say, though, most people trying to do the latter wld quickly come unstuck, so perhaps there's my answer..... It ain't really possible to succeed in competition, if you've not put the effort in yourself and if you are not of a standard to ride what you're sitting on! And in terms of too much instruction being against the spirit of the sport, well, it's v hard to reach a high standard without instruction. As you receive decent tuition, you become a better rider, and that is what progress is about.... Therefore, any amount of assistance is "fair game" and there is not really a point at which it becomes too much.

Oysterbay, my "disquiet" (thanks for pointing that out...) stems from me trying to have my cake and eat it! When I got Vito last yr, I decided that my aim was to be to jump bigger tracks. I didn't want to produce a horse, I wanted my achievement to be the fact I'd progressed up the levels, so I bought one that wld, in part, teach me! And now I suppose I'm wondering whether I've contributed anything at all.

Gamebird and Bb, v v good point about test riding. I do plan to do that!

Thanks, all, in trying to formulate a plan for the old DR, I started thinking about this point, and it's been interesting to hear everyone's thoughts!
 
Bless you HTT for thinking it's not really on to get someone else to help you. What a purist. You must have had lessons to get to where you are now i.e. from the first time you sat on a pony, so whose to say continuing those lessons is wrong as you go up the levels. I think if you sent Vito to a pro and then you just turned up and rode him in competitions, then thats a bit more complicated.
 
I don't know a single Pro rider who doesn't have lessons on a regular basis. Riding is not something that you can just "figure out" by yourself, nor learn from a book (you only have to look at the legions of riders who think they can..), so if you want to be good at it, you need knowledgeable eyes on the ground and input.
 
Honestly, who are these people who never take lessons, never ride their own horses and then turn up and win? I've been doing this a looooong time and while I have seen a few people do this for a short time at a low level with a lot of help and direction, I've never seen anyone sustain it and I've seen a lot of people gain the necessary experience to then move on and do more with their riding when they have more time to throw at it.

Keep in mind that many of the stories about how "prodigal" riders, who win with almost no training/experience are just that, stories. We were talking about this the other day after Jock's Burghley win. Yes, he did not do the whole Pony Teams etc but the story that's passed into cannon now is not quite accurate either. I was also invoking a story about a girl who "came from nowhere" in one discipline. The catch was her father was a respected professional in another discipline and the girl had effectively ridden professionally in that area since she was a child. So okay, not that many miles, relatively speaking, in her "new" riding but a lot of transferable experience and the support of people who also knew what to do and how to do it. I know these stories make good press (along with the ones about people that compete on a ridiculous budget but leave out some essential fact like they are completely supported by a wealthy relative) but I cringe when I read them because I know they give people a very false idea of what it takes to be successful and then they beat themselves up because they can't emulate this - unreal - situation.
 
If I could afford it, I'd have loads more lessons. I was in the same situation as you OP - horse was easily doing double clears at novice and always placed but our dressage wasn't great. I couldn't afford many lessons though so I never improved!!
 
I can't even begin to follow your argument in any way! for me one of the wonders of riding is you never know it all, you always have to train. The more effort you put in, the more skilled and experienced you become. As for someone else setting up a horse and then someone else simply reaping the benefits.... Bring it on! I use professionals to help produce on my horse over a bump I can't manage and I carry on with my training and fitness so I can ride him when he is more established. if you yourself don't put the hours or training in then even an established schoolmaster will go sour and backwards. If I could afford it I would max out on training but I can't so have to work out my programme carefully.
 
No you are being daft, next question :p

....which comes as no great surprise!

Be careful, I only have a few more BE runs left. Then I'll start posting about baby and horse doing dressage.

Claracanter, I'm def not trying to vito (fnarr, fnarr) lessons full stop. More just musing about the whys and wherefores and how muches.

TS, perhaps that's right. It seems (though it is not the case) that others need less help than we do, and then we wonder why!

MagicMelon, I remember your posts about your horse. He sounded great.

Lucie07, yep, time to get going.
 
The joke for me is I'm probably the least competitive rider in this discussion and was probably not particularly competitive even when I was competitive. I have always trained (lesson, clinics, riding more established horses, wp positions etc etc) for myself, for my own body of knowledge and because I love horses and riding and learning about horses and riding (most days :)) If there is something to learn, why would you not want to learn it? And there is always something to learn.

I see you point, and I am probably the other end of the spectrum in that I don't compete any more because I don't have the resources to be as competitive as I want to be. I don't want to 'take part' I want to win. I know that when I was a teenager that attitude caused quite a few raised eyebrows and a few people who have known me long enough have admitted that they always thought I was a bit 'full on'. That is my nature (skiing in Austria once OH and I spent 80euros trying to beat one another down a timed slalom track, I won many times over :) ) I have learnt to tone it down but I don't get any satisfaction from doing things when I haven't prepared or done everything in my power to give me the best chance of winning.
 
Which brings us back to the personal choice aspect of the whole conversation. ;)

Although I will concede if I do compete now it is always with another agenda so 'winning' is a) unlikely and b) gravy.
 
sorry, I know Im late catching up with this but work gets in the way of real life sometimes! I fully understand the dilemma, and have the same one myself. My personal compromise is predicated on a number of factors.. a) Im not a great natural rider b) I work full time and some extra with travel c) I am naturally fat and sit behind a desk all day so have to work hard in the gym to stay a shape my poor horse can just about cart around a cross country course. d) I have a tricky, sensitive horse who I keep at home.
So, adding all those together, i too have decided if I do well I want it to be my own work, so I dont have anyone else ride him. I also need to ride to keep my nerve and fitness. I do, however, throw as many expensive lessons as I can at us both given time available. We usually have a lesson a fortnight with a 4* eventer working on jumping, and 1 a fortnight with a list 1 dressage judge. Neither of which will win us a novice, but will help me help the poor horse out a bit more. Good luck at SOE by the way :-)
 
Getting lessons is not cheating. Getting someone else to school your horse is not cheating.

My horse has been with pro over summer, mainly due to work commitments, and also my recent lack of riding. Pro took horse out to some small shows. Is this cheating? Nope. I have neither the confidence, or the transport to get to shows, so made far more sense for pro to do it for me.

Horse is now at a livery yard near me, and they are riding her for me. The schooling will not be up to the pro's standard, but due to me being at work, and a bit nervous, she needs riding to get the exercise. Is this cheating. Nope. Sorry.

Intention is that horse will go back to pro for a while to get some experience of BE. Is this cheating. Nope. I do not have the skill set to get a horse around BE90. The pro does. When horse comes back to me, she will have experience of it, and we will both be safer when out competition. Is this cheating or immoral? No.

I have also had a "schoolmaster" horse who had done novice BE. I couldn't ride one side of him, so just as someone has a horse like this doesn't mean its previous results are anything to go by.
 
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